Would value your opinions on this cycle

I've decided, after a lot of research and weighing the pros and cons, and being supervised from someone I know who's done this before, to cycle on the following stack coupled with continuing to train hard four times a week while my diet will be eating up for the six weeks then dieting down for another six weeks.

Andropen 275 (10ml) 6 weeks 1.5ml weekly
Stanazol Tabs 100 (10mg)tabs 6 weeks 3 tabs daily
Proviron 50 (25mg) tabs 6 weeks one daily

I'd like to know your thoughts if this is indeed a good cycle/stack - i want to put on some clean muscle mass while cutting back on some fat, and of course get past the plateau I've been sitting at for way too long.

if this is your first cycle then go for 2ml a week of andropen and make it last 8weeks (two shots of 1ml per week)
use the winstrol the last 4 weeks at 5 tabs daily

what are your stats

BBG wrote:

if this is your first cycle then go for 2ml a week of andropen and make it last 8weeks (two shots of 1ml per week)
use the winstrol the last 4 weeks at 5 tabs daily

what are your stats

Why only start Winny half way through cycle and not from the beginning?

I'm 30, 1.85m and 77kgs.

If I decided to remove the winny cycle completely and only keep the test and proviron, would that still give me results? The more I read about winny's cholestral issues, the
more I think I should get off it sooner than later.

Winstrol is pretty liver toxic bud, that's why most people would suggest to run it for 4-6 weeks.

* also running it the last 4 weeks has 2 benefits

1- Running Winny 2 weeks before, and 2 weeks after last injection will keep you anabolic while the test clears the system.

2- it will also help "harden" your gains so to speak.

BB_guy wrote:

Winstrol is pretty liver toxic bud, that's why most people would suggest to run it for 4-6 weeks.

* also running it the last 4 weeks has 2 benefits

1- Running Winny 2 weeks before, and 2 weeks after last injection will keep you anabolic while the test clears the system.

2- it will also help "harden" your gains so to speak.

Do you think if I stopped the winny (second day only) and just kept doing the andropen with proviron that I'd still get decent lean gains?

You are using 400mg of Test a week +-, which is ok but a little on the low side IMO. I think you will be a little disappointed if you run that dose, especially for 6 weeks only. Try to get some more Test, if you don't already have, and run it about 500mg for 10-12 weeks.
There will be no probs stopping the Winny.

Have you planned a PCT yet? N.B.!!!!!

Also, a good diet and training program are essential to making good gains. What are you eating on a daily basis?

BB_guy wrote:

You are using 400mg of Test a week +-, which is ok but a little on the low side IMO. I think you will be a little disappointed if you run that dose, especially for 6 weeks only. Try to get some more Test, if you don't already have, and run it about 500mg for 10-12 weeks.
There will be no probs stopping the Winny.

Have you planned a PCT yet? N.B.!!!!!

Hey, I'm on 1.5 ml of test weekly - i assume that equals 400mg? I'll chat to my trainer and see what he says about upping it - just don't want any miserable side effects such as gyno!

We haven't discussed a PCT yet. What would that typically include?

BB_guy wrote:

Also, a good diet and training program are essential to making good gains. What are you eating on a daily basis?

Diet equals:

4 eggs, oats

protein shake (evox 5xl)

chicken breasts and potato

protein shake (evox 5xl)

beef or fish or chicken with potato or butternut

protein shake (evox 5xl)

BB_guy wrote:

There will be no probs stopping the Winny.

Sorry, about this one - i keep getting conflicting messages and opinions on whether to keep it in or take it out. What is yours? I just don't want any cholesterol issues and the reports im reading are mixed.

400mg isn't a bad dose, it should be fine. The "disappointment" was more directed at your cycle length of 6 weeks. You are 100% correct about the side effects. Gyno is horrid, but don't only be concerned with that just because it's visible. High Blood pressure, testicular atrophy, kidney and liver probs to name only a few. Read up on them!

Get yourself some Nolvadex, and Letro or Adex.

Run the Letro or Adex at about 0.25mg every second day and increase the dosage to 0.5mg if you start feeling any "gyno" symptoms.

2 weeksa after your last injection, start the kessar. 40mg for 2 weeks and 20mg for the last 2 weeks.

IMHO 6 weeks of Winny at 30mg/day will be fine. You still a young guy I'm not 100% sure, but the cholesterol issues should correct itself pretty soon after cessation of the Winny.
To counter the "high cholesterol", make sure you getting in plenty of good fats, EVO oil, Avocado's, flax seed, mac nut oil. These should keep your HDL levels high.

If you decide to run the Winny...
Lets say your cycle of Test is 10 weeks.
Run the Winny from week 8 to week 12. Then start PCT the following day. K3wl

BB_guy wrote:

400mg isn't a bad dose, it should be fine. The "disappointment" was more directed at your cycle length of 6 weeks. You are 100% correct about the side effects. Gyno is horrid, but don't only be concerned with that just because it's visible. High Blood pressure, testicular atrophy, kidney and liver probs to name only a few. Read up on them!

Get yourself some Nolvadex, and Letro or Adex.

Run the Letro or Adex at about 0.25mg every second day and increase the dosage to 0.5mg if you start feeling any "gyno" symptoms.

2 weeksa after your last injection, start the kessar. 40mg for 2 weeks and 20mg for the last 2 weeks.

will research those. Thanks.

I thought proviron helped with gyno et al too?

Proviron will help, but its a very mild Aromatise Inhibitor.
You might get away with only using it, but rather be on the safe side and get a stronger A.I. just in case...

At 77kg in 2m you really don't need to worry bout dropping fat and using hardening compounds like the winnie and proviron. Bro just follow a clean bulking programme. The reason your muscles aint growing is that silly diet you eating. Pack in the food but keep the diet clean and you will suddenly think you wont even need gear! But as for your first cycle you just need the standard beginners 500mg test a week for 8-12 weeks. Then follow up with a proper PCT to maintain your gains and get those balls pumping again...

With a proper (that means more calories bud!!!) clean diet you will pack on the muscle and drop some fat on that standard first cycle.

Inja wrote:

At 77kg in 2m you really don't need to worry bout dropping fat and using hardening compounds like the winnie and proviron. Bro just follow a clean bulking programme. The reason your muscles aint growing is that silly diet you eating. Pack in the food but keep the diet clean and you will suddenly think you wont even need gear! But as for your first cycle you just need the standard beginners 500mg test a week for 8-12 weeks. Then follow up with a proper PCT to maintain your gains and get those balls pumping again...

With a proper (that means more calories bud!!!) clean diet you will pack on the muscle and drop some fat on that standard first cycle.

If i stopped the winstrol, shouldn't i keep taking the proviron? The reason I ask is that aside from keeping my natural test levels high, it's supposed to combat gyno et al - I really don't want to sit with gyno problems.

IMO if you have nothing else, no SERM, no A.I. use the Proviron. It's better than nothing.
But you can't compare Proviron to Letro. If you that worried about gyno get your hands on some Letro and Nolvadex. Letro is just so much more powerful at preventing Estro build up, and WAY cheaper.

You can run a low dose of Letro like was said earlier, and if you feel any gyno symptoms, start on some Nolvadex (20-40mg) and up the doseage of Letro from 0.25mg to 0.5mg/day

Oh and like Inja said, your diet needs serious work. If its not up to scratch you are going to be very disappointed...

A mod on this forum DJ, does customs diets for people if you are interested. It will be well worth your time getting some info from him.

Akag, there is not much to worry about in the way of gyno at 500mg a week, but it does happen.

This is the principle reason why I recommend using only one compounds (Test only) for your first cycle and having the ancillaries on hand. So you can learn how you react to the test. If you get some itchy nipples or puffiness on 500mg a week, you are probably going to have problems with gyno whenever you cycle and you will need to take the necessary precautions. But you will never know if you go in head first with a whole bunch of ancills and AAS.

Have some tamoxifen on hand and a good A.I. If the gyno begins to show start the SERM and that'll stop it. Also start your A.I. so that you can ring out the cycle. The gyno should go down. If not you will have to stop the cycle.

If you'd rather be cautious then simply take an A.I. throughout the course at low dose. You can use the proviron instead, but bare in mind that you do not know if you are androgen sensitive yet and may find yourself shedding from the proviron.

akag wrote:

Inja wrote:

At 77kg in 2m you really don't need to worry bout dropping fat and using hardening compounds like the winnie and proviron. Bro just follow a clean bulking programme. The reason your muscles aint growing is that silly diet you eating. Pack in the food but keep the diet clean and you will suddenly think you wont even need gear! But as for your first cycle you just need the standard beginners 500mg test a week for 8-12 weeks. Then follow up with a proper PCT to maintain your gains and get those balls pumping again...

With a proper (that means more calories bud!!!) clean diet you will pack on the muscle and drop some fat on that standard first cycle.

If i stopped the winstrol, shouldn't i keep taking the proviron? The reason I ask is that aside from keeping my natural test levels high, it's supposed to combat gyno et al - I really don't want to sit with gyno problems.

As Inja said, I would take nothing now as remeber its all very harsh on the kidneys any of these oral drugs. I have read horror stories of people just with prohormones and their liver is worse than that of a 60 year old alcoholic. Take it easy, take the least ammount of drugs possible to achieve your results, you need to get to know your body more than anything else. We can't just say take .25 mg of Letro or take 40mg Proviron... You need to find what balance happens in your body. I was reading a very intresting article in MD about guys that honestly don't believe in PCT what so ever and their body will sort itself out. I don't find that true with me or many people I talk to, but I do know a few guys that don't PCT the worst case the do is a bit of HCG. Please don't take this last part literally and do your PCT i'm just giving you an example of knowing your own body and thats why its best to take the smallest doses of gear to start with and see how you achieve results. I posted a article yesterday stating that most recreational bodybuilders can get away with 250 -> 500mg of test for the rest of their lives.

I agree with you guys on the "take the least amount of drugs possible to achieve your results" statement 100%.
But at the same time "prevention is better than cure" should be kept in mind. Taking a low dose A.I. (0.25)is a standard practice worldwide.

I don't see a problem at all running 0.25mg of Letro I actually find its a benefit for the cycle as you don't suffer the problems related with estrogen, (water / high blood pressure) etc.. Even if you not gyno prone the side effects of gear are still there and a dose of 0.25mg Letro would certainly help

Pump - Would you recommend that I use 0.25mg Letro eod just as a precaution even if I don't notice any water retention and haven't had gyno problems before? Starting today with week 4 of 15 week Dbol,Cyp,Equi,Winny+PCT cycle.

Im not pump but im just saying i would do it just in case, u know the saying rather be safe than sorry...

BTW on this topic had a mate on 900mg of testen a week..started suffering from sensitive nipples a bit puffy...he caught it early droppped the test to 600mg a week and used letro .25mg ed..all symptons gone... went back to 900mg a week...with letro .25mg ed nipples starting flaring up again...

Now could that be from to much test or does he need to increase the letro or shud he keep the test at 600mg a week?