First cycle? *Cycle added for comment*

Hi guys

I have decided to take the plunge and will be going on my first cycle at the start of next year, now you might ask why I'm posting now, well I like to be 110% educated before I undertake something that effects my body and I've read 100's of "horror roid stories" of which 99.99% was due to uneducated use

To give some background, I've been training seriously for the last 6 months (after a 3 year absence), my height is 6'2 or 1.88ish, I weight 96kg, 26 years old and my bodyfat is around the 10% mark as measured with 7-point caliper method

The reason for only starting next year is that I feel I need to gain some more bodybuilding experience and I believe that I'm still gaining good naturally, my last six months gain have been as follows;

1. 950g
2. 820g
3. 615g
4. 639g
5. 340g
6. 1540g (started good-ish bulking diet)

Now here's a list of what I know

- I know I need to get a proper diet in place before I start a cycle (any recommends, I see there is a diet specialist on this site?)
- I know I must have blood work done etc (need to know details)
- I know I must try and find a doctor that I can trust and that can help me (not sure how to approach this, my current GP is a family friend, but I'm almost sure he'll kick my arse if I tell him I want to do roids!!!)
- I want to do a beginner cycle for 12 weeks
- I know I need to do pct and only start after last oil leaves my body
- I know I need to rest as long as my total cycle was, from start to end of pct, before doing next cycle
- I have read up on how to inject

What I need more info on

1. Will a test-only cycle be a good starter to check what my body does? What is a good test only beginner cycle?


2. Where can I get my bloodwork done and what other tests
needs to be done beforehand?

3. Should I do bloodwork during cycle?

4. Should I do bloodwork after pct to check recovery?

5. What will the benefit be of having a doctor on my side, is it against their ethics to help someone using steroids?

6. Now I know a cycle will cause my nads to shrink...how bad does this get and is it normal? Any way of preventing the boys to get the size of raisins or must I just live with it? Will it cause discomfort?

7. I see there is a pct 101 thread...what is a popular pct treatment?

8. Now I've read up on injecting, correct procedure etc etc...but in all honesty how many of you did the first injection no problem? I'm scared that once I pin myself I might faint or worse, stick the needle in too deep or not in the exact right spot...is there room for error on this?

9. I want to use either 21 or 23g with 1" for quad and 1.5" for glutes or should I just stick.

10. How will I know when the needle is in deep enough (please dont say when I hit the bone )

11. What type of syringe is needed?

12. Can I just walk up to the counter at dischem and ask for 100 syringes and needless without them looking at me strange?

13. What other accesories is needed for injecting (eg swabs, cutting oil)

14. How do I dispose of needles safely?

Sorry for all the questions, but I've learned that the only dumb questions are the ones you never ask

Btw, brands I can get is basically pharma grade for pills, phizer etc and Axio, PGW and diamond for oils...I've heard axio is bit expensive and mixed views on pgw...some say its godsend and others say its "cheap" and "dirty" due to coconut oil or something being used in it? True or rumours

Btw, the natural gains I mentioned is lean muscle mass as calculated with drink water ross cpu program after all kinds of funny bone and body frame measurements was taken

The ultimate first new poster +1 karma for that.

silent4now wrote:

Hi guys

I have decided to take the plunge and will be going on my first cycle at the start of next year, now you might ask why I'm posting now, well I like to be 110% educated before I undertake something that effects my body and I've read 100's of "horror roid stories" of which 99.99% was due to uneducated use

To give some background, I've been training seriously for the last 6 months (after a 3 year absence), my height is 6'2 or 1.88ish, I weight 96kg, 26 years old and my bodyfat is around the 10% mark as measured with 7-point caliper method

The reason for only starting next year is that I feel I need to gain some more bodybuilding experience and I believe that I'm still gaining good naturally, my last six months gain have been as follows;

1. 950g
2. 820g
3. 615g
4. 639g
5. 340g
6. 1540g (started good-ish bulking diet)

Now here's a list of what I know

- I know I need to get a proper diet in place before I start a cycle (any recommends, I see there is a diet specialist on this site?)
- I know I must have blood work done etc (need to know details)
- I know I must try and find a doctor that I can trust and that can help me (not sure how to approach this, my current GP is a family friend, but I'm almost sure he'll kick my arse if I tell him I want to do roids!!!)
- I want to do a beginner cycle for 12 weeks
- I know I need to do pct and only start after last oil leaves my body
- I know I need to rest as long as my total cycle was, from start to end of pct, before doing next cycle
- I have read up on how to inject

What I need more info on

1. Will a test-only cycle be a good starter to check what my body does? What is a good test only beginner cycle? Test only. Test E 12 weeks and maybe some DBol first 4 weeks


2. Where can I get my bloodwork done and what other tests
needs to be done beforehand? Go to a doc and tell him you want bloods done on certain things. I just tell my doc I want bloods done to ensure I am A OK. He writes out a thing for Pathcare and off you go. Quite a few tests.

3. Should I do bloodwork during cycle? Don't know, I only do Pre and Post cycle.

4. Should I do bloodwork after pct to check recovery? Yes

5. What will the benefit be of having a doctor on my side, is it against their ethics to help someone using steroids? Doctors usually don't like it when you are using gear, but they would rather check that you are healthy and not damaging yourself.

6. Now I know a cycle will cause my nads to shrink...how bad does this get and is it normal? Any way of preventing the boys to get the size of raisins or must I just live with it? Will it cause discomfort? You could use HCG during the cycle to minimize the effect I guess.

7. I see there is a pct 101 thread...what is a popular pct treatment? Usually consists of HCG and Kessar.

8. Now I've read up on injecting, correct procedure etc etc...but in all honesty how many of you did the first injection no problem? I'm scared that once I pin myself I might faint or worse, stick the needle in too deep or not in the exact right spot...is there room for error on this? Never had the problem, got a friend to inject me. If injecting in your glute just don't hit the sciatic nerve, you will kak off big time. There are numerous videos on youtube that show you how to inject.

9. I want to use either 21 or 23g with 1" for quad and 1.5" for glutes or should I just stick. 21G 1.5" Glutes and 23G 1" is fine for quads.

10. How will I know when the needle is in deep enough (please dont say when I hit the bone ) It can only go so deep my friend. Just leave a little bit sticking out in case it snaps off, then you can pull it out.

11. What type of syringe is needed? 3ml or 5ml

12. Can I just walk up to the counter at dischem and ask for 100 syringes and needless without them looking at me strange? They probably will, but yes you can.

13. What other accesories is needed for injecting (eg swabs, cutting oil) Sterile swabs, bandages and enough syringes and needles. That's about it.

14. How do I dispose of needles safely? I take mine to the Hospital and ask them to dispose of it. I've seen worse, people throwing it in the gym dustbin. Don't know what the others do

Sorry for all the questions, but I've learned that the only dumb questions are the ones you never ask

Btw, brands I can get is basically pharma grade for pills, phizer etc and Axio, PGW and diamond for oils...I've heard axio is bit expensive and mixed views on pgw...some say its godsend and others say its "cheap" and "dirty" due to coconut oil or something being used in it? True or rumours

And what oil do you think all pharma companies use? Mostly some type of nut oil.

You can stack from the start. What you stack depends on your goals- bulking, strength, cutting, etc. My cycle and training is geared up for boxing - test enanthate, winstrol, EQ and Proviron

What I need more info on

1. Will a test-only cycle be a good starter to check what my body does? What is a good test only beginner cycle?

Enanthate

2. Where can I get my bloodwork done and what other tests
needs to be done beforehand?

Loads of Pathologists around. If you want to do this.

3. Should I do bloodwork during cycle?

If you feel safe having people at a path lab knowing you roiding - which is illegal.

4. Should I do bloodwork after pct to check recovery?

See above. Some gear like EQ stays in your blood for months

5. What will the benefit be of having a doctor on my side, is it against their ethics to help someone using steroids?

T.I.A. Find a bent one.

6. Now I know a cycle will cause my nads to shrink...how bad does this get and is it normal? Any way of preventing the boys to get the size of raisins or must I just live with it? Will it cause discomfort?

Start PCT from day one - recommend Proviron - will keep alot of sides at bay

7. I see there is a pct 101 thread...what is a popular pct treatment?

My fave is Proviron as it prevents estrogen rather than trying to mop it up after the event

8. Now I've read up on injecting, correct procedure etc etc...but in all honesty how many of you did the first injection no problem? I'm scared that once I pin myself I might faint or worse, stick the needle in too deep or not in the exact right spot...is there room for error on this?

Administering is tricky. Unless you've got alot of muscle your only option is the glutes which makes self admin a tad challenging. I recommend you ask someone experienced to administer you until you get big enough to go into shoulder, bicep or quads

9. I want to use either 21 or 23g with 1" for quad and 1.5" for glutes or should I just stick.

Stick with the glutes til you get bigger

10. How will I know when the needle is in deep enough (please dont say when I hit the bone )

Don't try it yourself. You can end up with allsorts of problems, pinched nerves, could hit a vein, lumps

11. What type of syringe is needed?
You shouldn't be putting more than 1 mil of each component in per week so something big enough for that

12. Can I just walk up to the counter at dischem and ask for 100 syringes and needless without them looking at me strange?

No. There are places that do needles for free but you can only get 4 per week and take your old ones back

13. What other accesories is needed for injecting (eg swabs, cutting oil)
Preptic swabs. Baby wipes can do the job.

14. How do I dispose of needles safely?

Take them back to where you got them.

Hope this helps

silent4now wrote:

Hi guys

I have decided to take the plunge and will be going on my first cycle at the start of next year, now you might ask why I'm posting now, well I like to be 110% educated before I undertake something that effects my body and I've read 100's of "horror roid stories" of which 99.99% was due to uneducated use

To give some background, I've been training seriously for the last 6 months (after a 3 year absence), my height is 6'2 or 1.88ish, I weight 96kg, 26 years old and my bodyfat is around the 10% mark as measured with 7-point caliper method

The reason for only starting next year is that I feel I need to gain some more bodybuilding experience and I believe that I'm still gaining good naturally, my last six months gain have been as follows;

1. 950g
2. 820g
3. 615g
4. 639g
5. 340g
6. 1540g (started good-ish bulking diet)

Now here's a list of what I know

- I know I need to get a proper diet in place before I start a cycle (any recommends, I see there is a diet specialist on this site?) yes i can help u with your diet,even now as a natural i can help u.u can get hold of me through the contact us section at the top.
- I know I must have blood work done etc (need to know details)u dont need to really have them done but it is advisable to see if u are 100% recovered after a cycle,if u do a full pct then u should be 100% u will know if your test levels are not back to normal after a pct as u will still have some libido problems.
- I know I must try and find a doctor that I can trust and that can help me (not sure how to approach this, my current GP is a family friend, but I'm almost sure he'll kick my arse if I tell him I want to do roids!!!) as a doctor they wont kick your ass all u can do is tell them u are going to be using and that u have done the research into the compounds and explain to them what compounds u have decided on.they cant give u shit really,all they can do is advise against it but if u tell them the whole run down then u will be fine...my GP actually asked me to write her something on PCT protocol to give to the guys when using steroids as she knows how much i have read up on the stuff...
- I want to do a beginner cycle for 12 weeks 10 -12 weeks is perfect.
- I know I need to do pct and only start after last oil leaves my body. this will be 2 weeks after your last shot. so if u take your last shot on a monday,14 days after that u will start your post cycle therapy.
- I know I need to rest as long as my total cycle was, from start to end of pct, before doing next cycle. good boy,time on = time off.
- I have read up on how to inject

What I need more info on

1. Will a test-only cycle be a good starter to check what my body does? What is a good test only beginner cycle?test enanthate or cyprionate is a good start. between 500-600mg a week is perfect,u can front load with a safe compound such as dianabol for the first 4 weeks of the injectables,20-30mg daily will be fine,keep your milk thistle on hand and drink lots of water.


2. Where can I get my bloodwork done and what other tests
needs to be done beforehand?go to your gp,ask them to give u a form for your local lab,i use lancet,and u get them to take the blood and the gp will go through the results with u when the bloods come back.

3. Should I do bloodwork during cycle?not needed.

4. Should I do bloodwork after pct to check recovery?if doing bloods before,then yes do bloods after,if not just do bloods post cycle after your pct.

5. What will the benefit be of having a doctor on my side, is it against their ethics to help someone using steroids?no its very ethical,they put people on hormone replacement therapy,and its their job to help people during their lives,its like helping a smoker but not helping a steroid user cos they are bad to the body...

6. Now I know a cycle will cause my nads to shrink...how bad does this get and is it normal? Any way of preventing the boys to get the size of raisins or must I just live with it? Will it cause discomfort?no it wont cause discomfort,they will go back to normal size post cycle once u have done your post cycle therapy.

7. I see there is a pct 101 thread...what is a popular pct treatment? for you kessar clomid and hcg/pregnyl. rather cover all the bases

8. Now I've read up on injecting, correct procedure etc etc...but in all honesty how many of you did the first injection no problem? I'm scared that once I pin myself I might faint or worse, stick the needle in too deep or not in the exact right spot...is there room for error on this?if doing your glutes u will be fine,u wont faint unless u do something horribly wrong...u wont go to deep and u wont really hit any blood vessles in your glute using a 1-1.5inch pin.

9. I want to use either 21 or 23g with 1" for quad and 1.5" for glutes or should I just stick.u get 23guage with 1.5" or 1" lengths,stick to a 23 guage.

10. How will I know when the needle is in deep enough (please dont say when I hit the bone ) when u hit the coloured plastic bit u know u are in properly.

11. What type of syringe is needed? 3ml will be fine

12. Can I just walk up to the counter at dischem and ask for 100 syringes and needless without them looking at me strange?its a schedule 0 thing to buy so they wont ask questions,if they ask u anything just say its for vitamin b 12 injections

13. What other accesories is needed for injecting (eg swabs, cutting oil)alcohol swabs for cleaning the area and cotton wool.

14. How do I dispose of needles safely?i throw mine in the bin.

Sorry for all the questions, but I've learned that the only dumb questions are the ones you never ask

Btw, brands I can get is basically pharma grade for pills, phizer etc and Axio, PGW and diamond for oils...I've heard axio is bit expensive and mixed views on pgw...some say its godsend and others say its "cheap" and "dirty" due to coconut oil or something being used in it? True or rumours

use only pgw injectables,u wont have any problems with them...

Wow guys thanks alot for all the info thus far...I'll go read up on the pct's a bit more

DJ, will contact you as soon as I'm ready for new diet thanks!

Couple more questions I couldnt manage to find anything on;

1. When is the best time of day to take injections?

2. When is it TOO LATE to eliminate the sides of gyno? Is there any specific signs to look for? Acne etc etc I can handle...but puffy nips is a no-no

3. What can be used to eliminate gyno?

Hey Silent4now
Good job on doing your homework

DJ have 1 question, I know the argument for running HCG during or post cycle is pretty old, just curious how you running it
Personally I think Clomid AND Nolva AND HCG just seems overkill for a 500mg a week cycle, my 2 Zim $

silent4now wrote:

Wow guys thanks alot for all the info thus far...I'll go read up on the pct's a bit more

DJ, will contact you as soon as I'm ready for new diet thanks!

Couple more questions I couldnt manage to find anything on;

1. When is the best time of day to take injections?

2. When is it TOO LATE to eliminate the sides of gyno? Is there any specific signs to look for? Acne etc etc I can handle...but puffy nips is a no-no

3. What can be used to eliminate gyno?

It doesn't make any difference really what time of the day you inject, what ever is convenient for you

High estrogen would cause gyno, which is a result from lets say in your case, Testosterone aromatizing (also Dbol, Equi, etc. any steroid that can convert to Estrogen)

You can run a low dose of Letro or Adex to keep estrogen in check. Dosage would be 0,25mg a day or Every Other Day.
500mg a week of Test is pretty low , so I would go with 0,25 EOD

BB_guy wrote:500mg a week of Test is pretty low , so I would go with 0,25 EOD[/quote]

Thanks BB, you say 500mg is very low, will it still be sufficient to see some decent gains over 12 weeks?

Yes 500mg is perfect for your first cycle. What I meant was its not a massive amount that could cause major Estrogen problems, but still I would use Letro or at least keep it around for in case.

Will do that

What sort of organ support should I use during my cycle?

Milk thistle for d-bol correct?

silent4now wrote:

Will do that

What sort of organ support should I use during my cycle?

Milk thistle for d-bol correct?

Yebo, also keep water intake high, 3+ liters should be ok

Add in a Multi, Vit C, Vit E, calcium etc just for overall health

And Cranberry Extract, Essentiale, Omega 3 and you're good to go.

I personally wouldn't take the milk thistle,there is mounting evidence that it reduces the effectivness of your cycle.I understand that dbol is harsher on ones liver but to be honest your running it 4 weeks,and the dbol has been related to the same damage as having a shot of whiskey everyday,so I think its very limited and won't cause any lasting damage and liver values will be higher but probably well within range returning to normal quickly.

Just my 2 cents from recent research.

BB_guy wrote:

Hey Silent4now
Good job on doing your homework

DJ have 1 question, I know the argument for running HCG during or post cycle is pretty old, just curious how you running it
Personally I think Clomid AND Nolva AND HCG just seems overkill for a 500mg a week cycle, my 2 Zim $

500iu eod...

What's with the whole thing of milk thistle hampering gains? Someone please explain.

I will try find the articles for you

DJ wrote:

BB_guy wrote:

Hey Silent4now
Good job on doing your homework

DJ have 1 question, I know the argument for running HCG during or post cycle is pretty old, just curious how you running it
Personally I think Clomid AND Nolva AND HCG just seems overkill for a 500mg a week cycle, my 2 Zim $

500iu eod...

I meant you running it during or post cycle?

BB_guy wrote:

silent4now wrote:

Will do that

What sort of organ support should I use during my cycle?

Milk thistle for d-bol correct?

Yebo, also keep water intake high, 3+ liters should be ok

Add in a Multi, Vit C, Vit E, calcium etc just for overall health

Ok, currently I use animalpak once a day, it already contains vit E, a little c, milk thistle etc etc

Should I be taking additional Vits and thistle?

milktuds wrote:

And Cranberry Extract, Essentiale, Omega 3 and you're good to go.

Cranberry extract, where do I get it and whats the benefit

Essentiale...for what symptoms or daily?

Omega 3...getting it with animalpak

Dude great first post, well done for reading up first and educating yourself and also for having the patience and foresight to first stick with natural gains. +1 karma for you.

And everydody, am i the only one who read bodycounts post???
Dude, no. I totally disagree... Proviron for PCT?? No. Maybe between cycle and pct, but it is still a steroid and cannot be considered a part of pct.
And as for people knowing you are juicing from bloods done pre and post cycle??? How exactly? Alll they will tell you is what your test and other hormone levels are. Pre cycle they should be normal, and post cycle you'll want them to be the same... If anything they'll be depressed. You are not getting tests done for trace substances dude... No one you dont tell will know

Good catch Spike. Yip Proviron is a no-no for PCT.

Ok, so I've now read up a bit on pct on the site as well as the working, sides and how to administer on other sites and have the following questions

1. I've read many different methods of using hcg, some say 250iu twice a week during cycle and then 500iu twice a week for 2 weeks after cycle before starting kessar and clomid...other say to not use during cycle and use 1500iu 2 times a week for 3 weeks? Oh, this is based on 12 week testE cycle

2. Should you take hcg the same time as taking kessar and clomid?

3. I see you must spread out the 250iu per day injection over 5 injections or something in a day...do you keep solution in syringe and reuse?? This sounds dangerous?

4. Is arimidex the expensive but best protection against gyno?

5. HCG is injected in stomach at an angle (subcutaneous) opposed to intramuscular correct by using insulin syringe?

5. Regarding vials...do I store all vials in the fridge?

There are so many ways of using HCG...
Personally I think the best method is to use it during the cycle.
From what I understand, using HCG post cycle or in the time period between your last pin and the start of your SERM use, is counter productive because of the increase in testosterone caused by the HCG itself, being inhibitory to the pituitary and hypothalamus.
A good dosage would be 250iu EOD, its low enough to not cause major Estrogen problems and if you still notice Testicular shrinkage you can up the dosage...

Adex is expensive-ish, Letro, Adex, Aromasin will all do a good job at preventing gyno, Letro being the most powerful/harsh.

You can administer HCG either Sub-Q or I.M.(IntraMuscular), but most people use Sub-Q.
Once you mix the HCG store it in the fridge.

*You asked about using an A.I (Adex) in your PCT.
One good reason that I know of, would be to use it during PCT to lower Estrogen levels, which in turn raises Test levels
From what I've read, the better choice would be Aromasin, a 20mg/day dose will up Test levels roughly 60%, and lower SHBG by 20%, also Tamoxifen (which you will probably be using in PCT) will reduce blood levels of Adex and Letro, not so with Aromasin.

+1 for that!

So in a 12 week cycle I'll only require 10500iu...which is roughly 2 5000iu vials, thats not too bad, I've seen hcg in both amp and vial form, is it made by the same manufacturer?

So will I take the 250iu in one pin or spread out as some recommend?