Loosing tha FAT!

Wow, what a struggle to loose the extra fat and keep a good diet going!

Hi Guys,

I need some help please, sure this is a overused phrase! HELP!.

Okay, I am Novice in the Cycle department, I am currently in planning to do a cutting cycle or if then better get rid of the fat with some help and a good diet.

I did one cycle before Dianabol week1-4,Test CYP week 1-12,Nolvadex,week 11-14. My gains were quite good in the strength and size department but not much to get exited about, since most of the LOOK has gone away I am very much back at the beginning except for my strength that has increased.

I am Planning a Winstrol based cycle, and add some Clen to burn the fat, this is my idea please advise if it will do for burning the extra fat and also gain some muscle even if not much I would like to start at having my fat percentage at 13% or less.


Week 1-4 Dianabol
Week 1-6 Winny
week 6 -10 Clen and Kessar

Thought it good to do my PCT and the clen at the end?

Do not know ,want to keep the cycle simple but effective, Am I missing the boat or will it be okay?



Thanks guys

When doing a cutting cycle you don't want stuff that will cause a lot of water retention. Like the D-Bol. First off your diet will be the key to losing the fat. Add in some test prop for the duration of your cycle. 6 weeks winny is a bit rof hey. PCT = hcg, kessar or Doctari's.

I would go for a 6-8 week cycle consisting of Prop(6-8 weeks), winny(4 weeks) and an ECA fatburner (2 weeks on/off) together with a carb cycling diet.

I would definately lose the d-bol and run the clen throughout 2 weeks on/off. In the off weeks replace it with a ECA fatburner like HEAT. At the end of the day losing that stubborn fat is going to depend on whether or not you are following a well structured diet, as milktuds says.

milktuds wrote: When doing a cutting cycle you don't want stuff that will cause a lot of water retention. Like the D-Bol. First off your diet will be the key to losing the fat. Add in some test prop for the duration of your cycle. 6 weeks winny is a bit rof hey. PCT = hcg, kessar or Doctari's.

I would go for a 6-8 week cycle consisting of Prop(6-8 weeks), winny(4 weeks) and an ECA fatburner (2 weeks on/off) together with a carb cycling diet.

I take it you refer to the liver toxicity from 6 weeks on oral winstrol. How much do that apply for form injectable form?

I find that the beauty of stanazol really shows at week 7 for me. The increase in muscle hardness from week 7 - 9 is very pronounced (as is the joint aches actually). My stanazol protocol is always 3 x 20ml at 50mg/ml, taken 100mg EOD with 2ml or 3ml B12/B Co.

JB wrote:

milktuds wrote: When doing a cutting cycle you don't want stuff that will cause a lot of water retention. Like the D-Bol. First off your diet will be the key to losing the fat. Add in some test prop for the duration of your cycle. 6 weeks winny is a bit rof hey. PCT = hcg, kessar or Doctari's.

I would go for a 6-8 week cycle consisting of Prop(6-8 weeks), winny(4 weeks) and an ECA fatburner (2 weeks on/off) together with a carb cycling diet.

I take it you refer to the liver toxicity from 6 weeks on oral winstrol. How much do that apply for form injectable form?

I find that the beauty of stanazol really shows at week 7 for me. The increase in muscle hardness from week 7 - 9 is very pronounced (as is the joint aches actually). My stanazol protocol is always 3 x 20ml at 50mg/ml, taken 100mg EOD with 2ml or 3ml B12/B Co.

Yes the liver toxicity. I can't go longer than 4 maybe 5 weeks on winstrol. I've only used the oral version so don't know how long injectable can be run. Your protocol is standard. I hate the dry joints it gives you.

If you find you can run it that long then it's all good. I know some people who've ran it for 10 weeks. But that's not for me.

Thanks guys,


So this would be more eficient:

Week 1-8 Test Prop
Week 1-6 Winny( will cut it short at 4 weeks if to hectic)
and 2 week on/off with a fat burner from week 6 to the end of 10., running kessar at the end?

What would you suggest as a FAt burner? Anyone used Duromine before? Otherwise I am thinking Clen, Heat or T3?

Thanks

dude burning fat is all about having a calorie defecit every day.so u need to drop some food and add in some cardio. that will burn off fat. diet is 80% of the work.

i would alternate between clen and heat 2 weeks on clen 2 weeks on heat,use a yohimbine based product the whole time. use burners the whole period of the cut

Thanks DJ,

Would I use the Heat @ 1 cap per day and the same with Clen(40mcg) per day?

See my planned cycle please and advise I recon I am quite set on this and this cycle is at the end of my budget aswell so would like a Yay or Ney answer if possible?

Week 1-8 250 MG of Test prop per week
Week 1-6 Winny at 50 MG per day
Alternate between Heat and clen right thru the cycle. Heat at one tab a day for two weeks and Clen at 40mcg per day for the following 2 weeks.

PCT of Kessar to follow?

Thanks guys

Beastie, I don't think you are going to see any effects at that dosage of clen and Heat.
I would follow the recommended dosage (on the bottle) of Heat @ 2 caps in the morning and 2 caps at lunch.
For the clen I would start of at 40mcg and ramp up to 100mcg ED. If the shakes are to hectic for you at 100mcg then maybe go down to 80mcg. I wouldn't do anything less than 80mcg ED.

agreed with stuart on that! why not do masteron prop and test prop for 8 weeks instead of winstrol...

Sorry to drop this in this particular thread but does anyone know where the pic is of the NEW HEAT bottle is that someone posted awhile back? Please drop me the link or the pic...thanks guys... Im not sure who p[osted...could have been Admin?

Hey barbell

Just do a search for heat fat burners new bottle. It was posted by DJ

Fakey_AK wrote: Hey barbell

Just do a search for heat fat burners new bottle. It was posted by DJ

I did originally but could`nt find it so I posted the request....but as it would turn out I found the op....

Hi Guys,

I am prone to Acne and would like to keep the test to a minumum Thus the Winstrol? Why is the Winny a problem?

Thanks

Some info on Masteron:

Masteron
(drostanolone propionate)
Masteron is, to be honest, my favorite Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (AAS). For many years, this compound was unavailable to the average athlete; it was frequently counterfeited, often very expensive, and almost never available on the black market. The most common form of this product, as manufactured by major pharmaceutical houses, is 50mg/ml ampules with either 1-2mls per amp (or vial). Needless to say, these products used to be the only game in town, and since this drug was a particularly sought-after compound for bodybuilding contest preparation, it´s price made it prohibitive for all but the highest level bodybuilders.

Masteron is a derivative of DHT (as you can tell from its chemical name: 2a-methyl-dihydro-testosterone propionate), but what they fail to tell you is that DHT and its derivatives are commonly used in treatment of certain forms of breast cancer (see the etymology here: MASTectomy, gynocoMASTia, MASTeron, get it?). Masteron is not clinically used for weight gain (as is common with most steroids), so this makes it a very unique steroid from that perspective. Unfortunately, much of the information on Masteron available in medical journals doesn´t focus on weight or strength gain or even fat loss, for those reasons. Most information on Masteron focuses on it´s use in treating certain forms of breast cancer, and it does this reasonably well.(4)(5) To give you an idea, Masteron + Tamoxifen actually fared better than Chemotherapy for immediate objective responses from patients (.So? What does this tell us? Well, this makes it a very exciting drug for a lot of reasons. Clearly it won´t aromatize at all nor will it have progesteronic sides, remember, Nolvadex (and most ancillaries) are used to reduce estrogen for breast cancer patients, so a drug used to treat breast cancer obviously wouldn´t convert to estrogen...and in fact Masteron may interact with the aromatase enzymes to inhibit aromatization of other steroids into estrogen, and may additionally interact with estrogen (as a "blocker" of sorts) at the receptor site. (4)(5) This is how it helps to combat breast cancer, obviously, but this could also be part of the reason that Masteron is considered a "cutting" or "Pre-contest" drug. Masteron may actually be very useful for combating estrogenic/progesteronic side effects yes, you read that right, if you include Masteron in your cycle, you may not need other "ancillary" drugs like Arimidex or Letrozole). Hence, much like Proviron, Masteron could be used as an anti-side-effect-drug (remember, most ancillary drugs we use to combat estrogenic sides, like nolvadex, letrozole, and arimidex were originally developed to combat breast cancer...and thats exactly what Masteron was developed and used for). Along a similar line, being a DHT (DiHydroTestosterone) derivative, it´s got a very nice ability to add muscle hardness to an already lean physique, remember, Masteron has a deceivingly low anabolic/androgenic ratio, but since DHT is 5x as androgenic as testosterone and has a 3-4x higher affinity to receptor sites, Masteron provides a lot of "bang for the Buck" when examined on a Mg for Mg basis.

In my experience, as well as many others, Masteron is a stronger androgen than it appears on paper, and and this could cause increased aggression. As we know, higher androgens also produce that "hard" look prized by competitive BB´ers and as we all know, androgens also promote lypolysis (fat loss). The effects of Masteron, in that way are consistent with the documented effects of (somewhat heavier) androgens to decrease lipoprotein lipase and upregulate -adrenergic receptors on adipocytes, which would inhibit the accumulation of lipid (fat) and enhance the efflux of lipid from these cells in response to catecholamines (1)(2)(3). So, like I said previously, don´t let Masteron´s deceptively low Anabolic:Androgenic ratio fool you, it helps eliminate fat as well (if not better) than much more highly scored androgens, in part due to its being a derivative of DHT. This reduction in fat and rise in aggression (making workouts more effective) could be beneficial for people competing in a sport or who are on a reduced calorie diet. Sounds pretty good, right? Unfortunately, being a DHT derivative means that it can have certain undesirable sides as well (acne, hairloss, prostate enlargement, etc& you may want to consider using Finasteride with this drug). Water retention (and increased danger of high Blood Pressure) with this compound is virtually nil, and liver toxicity is not much of an issue either. Really, you can take heaps of this stuff...the maximum therapeutic dose is pretty high: 167mgs/kg-bdywt/day. So that´s 167mgs per day, every day of the week, for a 220lb person...and that´s not considered excessive by the FDA...who hasn´t been very traditionally liberal on dosing protocols. So clearly, up to that dose is very safe for almost anyone. DHT has a bad reputation for causing prostate hypertrophy, acne, and hairloss& but most people I´ve talked to find that reputation to be mostly undeserved at least in the case of Masteron.

Remember that year that the Chinese National Swimming Team (women´s) were kicking everyone´s ass? Or the year that the German National Swimming Team (again, I´m talking about women) were taking all those Gold medals? They were all using a form of DHT or a derivative, possibly Masteron. The German Women had very deep voices, which leads me to believe that Masteron´s virilizing effects on women could be very bad (there was a famous/funny interview where the interviewer implied that they all had deep voices, and one of them replied "Ve came here to svim, not to sing."). Hence, I feel Masteron is a great drug for any type of athlete, but possibly not for women (at least not at high doses... perhaps 50mgs/E3D is appropriate). Sorry girls...you can have a go with this drug, but keep the doses low.

Stacking Masteron? Well, I´d say that your best bet is with test, of course but really, due to Masteron´s reasonable binding to the Androgen Receptors and its high androgenic properties, almost any cutting drug (Tren, Anavar, etc... ) could be included in a cycle with it for an efficient stack. I have a feeling that due to Stanozolol´s (Winstrol) non-AR mediated effects, and its ability to reduce SHBG, a stack including both of these drugs would be very synergistic. However, don´t forget the Testosterone, as Masteron will reduce your own natural testosterone levels (9), and since you are going to have to inject Masteron Every Other Day at least (100mgs EOD is the lowest dose of this stuff I´d consider using), you might as well stack it with Testosterone Propionate, and possibly injectable Winstrol (and/or maybe Tren Acetate, if you´re inclined to use a lot of compounds in the same cycle& and I know I am& ). Eq is another popular choice to stack with Masteron.

I´d say that optimum effects of this stuff are found with 4-500mgs/week (based on conversations I´ve had with people who have used Masteron, as well as my own results). I happen to have a friend who has gone up to 600mgs/week with Masteron and didn´t feel that it provided significantly better results than 400-500mgs per week. I think, for maximum cost effectiveness, 400mgs per week is ideal. It´s also important to remember to spread those shots out on an every other day basis, as the Masteron I´m talking about here is the Propionate version, and as such, requires more frequent dosing. Of course I know there is a version of Masteron with an enanthenate ester dosed at 200mg/ml being produced by a very good Underground Lab (I personally used the "alpha" version, as a sort of Human Guinea Pig almost a year ago), but that´s not the version of Masteron I´m talking about in this profile. In addition, there is another form of Masteron out there: Drostanolone (base), yeah, that´s right, Masteron without an ester. It´s called Dromostan and it´s made by the Xelox Company. I´ve never tried this version, and don´t know anyone who has, but it´s my suspicion that it would be a very potent product, but would need to be injected every day.

Buying Masteron

Beastie wrote: Some info on Masteron:

Masteron
(drostanolone propionate)
Masteron is, to be honest, my favorite Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid (AAS). For many years, this compound was unavailable to the average athlete; it was frequently counterfeited, often very expensive, and almost never available on the black market. The most common form of this product, as manufactured by major pharmaceutical houses, is 50mg/ml ampules with either 1-2mls per amp (or vial). Needless to say, these products used to be the only game in town, and since this drug was a particularly sought-after compound for bodybuilding contest preparation, it´s price made it prohibitive for all but the highest level bodybuilders.

Masteron is a derivative of DHT (as you can tell from its chemical name: 2a-methyl-dihydro-testosterone propionate), but what they fail to tell you is that DHT and its derivatives are commonly used in treatment of certain forms of breast cancer (see the etymology here: MASTectomy, gynocoMASTia, MASTeron, get it?). Masteron is not clinically used for weight gain (as is common with most steroids), so this makes it a very unique steroid from that perspective. Unfortunately, much of the information on Masteron available in medical journals doesn´t focus on weight or strength gain or even fat loss, for those reasons. Most information on Masteron focuses on it´s use in treating certain forms of breast cancer, and it does this reasonably well.(4)(5) To give you an idea, Masteron + Tamoxifen actually fared better than Chemotherapy for immediate objective responses from patients (.So? What does this tell us? Well, this makes it a very exciting drug for a lot of reasons. Clearly it won´t aromatize at all nor will it have progesteronic sides, remember, Nolvadex (and most ancillaries) are used to reduce estrogen for breast cancer patients, so a drug used to treat breast cancer obviously wouldn´t convert to estrogen...and in fact Masteron may interact with the aromatase enzymes to inhibit aromatization of other steroids into estrogen, and may additionally interact with estrogen (as a "blocker" of sorts) at the receptor site. (4)(5) This is how it helps to combat breast cancer, obviously, but this could also be part of the reason that Masteron is considered a "cutting" or "Pre-contest" drug. Masteron may actually be very useful for combating estrogenic/progesteronic side effects yes, you read that right, if you include Masteron in your cycle, you may not need other "ancillary" drugs like Arimidex or Letrozole). Hence, much like Proviron, Masteron could be used as an anti-side-effect-drug (remember, most ancillary drugs we use to combat estrogenic sides, like nolvadex, letrozole, and arimidex were originally developed to combat breast cancer...and thats exactly what Masteron was developed and used for). Along a similar line, being a DHT (DiHydroTestosterone) derivative, it´s got a very nice ability to add muscle hardness to an already lean physique, remember, Masteron has a deceivingly low anabolic/androgenic ratio, but since DHT is 5x as androgenic as testosterone and has a 3-4x higher affinity to receptor sites, Masteron provides a lot of "bang for the Buck" when examined on a Mg for Mg basis.

In my experience, as well as many others, Masteron is a stronger androgen than it appears on paper, and and this could cause increased aggression. As we know, higher androgens also produce that "hard" look prized by competitive BB´ers and as we all know, androgens also promote lypolysis (fat loss). The effects of Masteron, in that way are consistent with the documented effects of (somewhat heavier) androgens to decrease lipoprotein lipase and upregulate -adrenergic receptors on adipocytes, which would inhibit the accumulation of lipid (fat) and enhance the efflux of lipid from these cells in response to catecholamines (1)(2)(3). So, like I said previously, don´t let Masteron´s deceptively low Anabolic:Androgenic ratio fool you, it helps eliminate fat as well (if not better) than much more highly scored androgens, in part due to its being a derivative of DHT. This reduction in fat and rise in aggression (making workouts more effective) could be beneficial for people competing in a sport or who are on a reduced calorie diet. Sounds pretty good, right? Unfortunately, being a DHT derivative means that it can have certain undesirable sides as well (acne, hairloss, prostate enlargement, etc& you may want to consider using Finasteride with this drug). Water retention (and increased danger of high Blood Pressure) with this compound is virtually nil, and liver toxicity is not much of an issue either. Really, you can take heaps of this stuff...the maximum therapeutic dose is pretty high: 167mgs/kg-bdywt/day. So that´s 167mgs per day, every day of the week, for a 220lb person...and that´s not considered excessive by the FDA...who hasn´t been very traditionally liberal on dosing protocols. So clearly, up to that dose is very safe for almost anyone. DHT has a bad reputation for causing prostate hypertrophy, acne, and hairloss& but most people I´ve talked to find that reputation to be mostly undeserved at least in the case of Masteron.

Remember that year that the Chinese National Swimming Team (women´s) were kicking everyone´s ass? Or the year that the German National Swimming Team (again, I´m talking about women) were taking all those Gold medals? They were all using a form of DHT or a derivative, possibly Masteron. The German Women had very deep voices, which leads me to believe that Masteron´s virilizing effects on women could be very bad (there was a famous/funny interview where the interviewer implied that they all had deep voices, and one of them replied "Ve came here to svim, not to sing."). Hence, I feel Masteron is a great drug for any type of athlete, but possibly not for women (at least not at high doses... perhaps 50mgs/E3D is appropriate). Sorry girls...you can have a go with this drug, but keep the doses low.

Stacking Masteron? Well, I´d say that your best bet is with test, of course but really, due to Masteron´s reasonable binding to the Androgen Receptors and its high androgenic properties, almost any cutting drug (Tren, Anavar, etc... ) could be included in a cycle with it for an efficient stack. I have a feeling that due to Stanozolol´s (Winstrol) non-AR mediated effects, and its ability to reduce SHBG, a stack including both of these drugs would be very synergistic. However, don´t forget the Testosterone, as Masteron will reduce your own natural testosterone levels (9), and since you are going to have to inject Masteron Every Other Day at least (100mgs EOD is the lowest dose of this stuff I´d consider using), you might as well stack it with Testosterone Propionate, and possibly injectable Winstrol (and/or maybe Tren Acetate, if you´re inclined to use a lot of compounds in the same cycle& and I know I am& ). Eq is another popular choice to stack with Masteron.

I´d say that optimum effects of this stuff are found with 4-500mgs/week (based on conversations I´ve had with people who have used Masteron, as well as my own results). I happen to have a friend who has gone up to 600mgs/week with Masteron and didn´t feel that it provided significantly better results than 400-500mgs per week. I think, for maximum cost effectiveness, 400mgs per week is ideal. It´s also important to remember to spread those shots out on an every other day basis, as the Masteron I´m talking about here is the Propionate version, and as such, requires more frequent dosing. Of course I know there is a version of Masteron with an enanthenate ester dosed at 200mg/ml being produced by a very good Underground Lab (I personally used the "alpha" version, as a sort of Human Guinea Pig almost a year ago), but that´s not the version of Masteron I´m talking about in this profile. In addition, there is another form of Masteron out there: Drostanolone (base), yeah, that´s right, Masteron without an ester. It´s called Dromostan and it´s made by the Xelox Company. I´ve never tried this version, and don´t know anyone who has, but it´s my suspicion that it would be a very potent product, but would need to be injected every day.

Buying Masteron

Bru, 250mg Test prop p/w isnt enough also its short ester so needs to be pinned 3times a week at least...

Remember Dukkes, this is only his second coarse so his dosage mustn't be to high. The recommended dose for test prop is 100mg EOD which gives 300mg/wk. 250mg/wk isn't far off.

I agree with stuartf. Plus in my mind u only need a maintenance dosage of test when on a cuttting cycle. Just enough to keep u anabolic and the little man happy. So 100mg eod will give 300 - 400 mg a week which would be enough.

i would use 1ml of each eod.some weeks u get 400mg,some u get 300mg. luck of the draw i guess..

DJ wrote: i would use 1ml of each eod.some weeks u get 400mg,some u get 300mg. luck of the draw i guess..

All about averages. :laugh:

STUARTF wrote: Remember Dukkes, this is only his second coarse so his dosage mustn't be to high. The recommended dose for test prop is 100mg EOD which gives 300mg/wk. 250mg/wk isn't far off.

oh ok, sorry i was under the impression that he wanted to pin 250mg once a week ,ie.every sunday. instead of spreading 250mg across the week, ie sun,tue,thur. Would adding Var at 40mg for 4-5 weeks at the begining of this cycle be a good addition?

Dukkes wrote: oh ok, sorry i was under the impression that he wanted to pin 250mg once a week ,ie.every sunday. instead of spreading 250mg across the week, ie sun,tue,thur. Would adding Var at 40mg for 4-5 weeks at the begining of this cycle be a good addition?

Winny and Var are pretty similar so you might want to choose one or the other to stack with the prop. I find winny to be more harsh on the joints so I would opt for the Var @ 60mg - 80mg for at least 10 - 12 weeks. A dosage at 40mg for 4 - 5 weeks will have very minimal effect.

Thank for input guys,

The prop is just for keeping my Thunderbolt blitzing and obviously keeping me anabolic, with all the "muscle breakdown" during the "cutting cycle" it is good to have some Test in the blood to counter the "breakdown effect, I will ajust the quantities on Heat and Clen to get desired result but i think the Cycle will deliver on results given I commit to my dieet, The next piece will be on the exercize routine to follow, i am not a keen Cardio Man but I geuss if i up the reps and sets and do some Rowing,cycling and Jogging in between the higher reps it would be sufficient? I will share my complete exercize plan later.

Thanks again