Short cycles(6 weeks) vs long cycles(10-16 weeks)

I found this a while ago on the web on some forum. cant remember where tho.

Just thought it would make a interesting read and I would like to hear your opinions?

"As many of you already know I have had decent success with short cycles. I, along with some of my friends and clients, have had good results with cycles as short as 14 days long.

I no longer do cycles longer than 4-6 weeks as I am simply sick of the sides that build up after 4-6 weeks and I no longer feel comfortable walking around with a shitty lipid profile for months on end.


WHAT QUALIFIES AS SHORT

"In my book" any cycle 6 weeks or less is a short cycle. Personally I now think that 4 weekers give the best gains to sides ratio.

You can do 2 weeks "on" 2-4 weeks "off"
You can do 4 weeks on and 4-6 weeks off
Or you can do 6 weeks on with 6-8 weeks off.
4 weeks on and 4 weeks off, year round, gives excellent results and you are only "on" half the year.

WHY DO THEM

#1.
If you are one of those bro's that does longer cycles, of say 10-12 weeks or more, and then wisely takes an equal amount of time off, and you are tired of loosing so much of your gains post cycle due to the length of the time off...the yoyo affect....then why not try doing shorter cycles with their corresponding shorter off times...... obviously you don't gain as much with a short cycle but then again you don't loose as much post cycle either due to the shorter off time.

Now... over say a year of doing 4 on 4-6 off you are gong to get very similar results as that seen from doing longer cycles of say 12 "on" 12-14 off but with less yo-yo affect and less sides. In fact most of my clients that do 4-6 week cycles tell me that they are actually getting better gains over a years use.

#2.
Do them to have less of a negative impact on ones lipid profile and to have less total time per year with a poor lipid profile.

Some of you may not know that androgens, taken at even newbie bodybuilding doses, alter everyones lipid profile. Everyone sees their hdl(good cholesterol) take a huge "nosedive" and most also see their ldl(bad cholesterol) go up to some degree but not to the same degree that hdl decreases. Generally hdl decreases 40-70% in as little as 2 weeks and ldl increases an average of 36% in 4 weeks. In my experience this reduction in hdl puts all bro's hdl WELL below the pathological minimum of 35. My ldl does not elevate above the pathological level of 160 but others see ldl's well above 160.
Lipid levels typically normalize within 3-10 weeks after discontinuation.
( details taken from article in Medscape)

Here are my "numbers" from the last long cycle of test 750mg/week and tren 75mg/day. A powerful stack but not a huge dose of gear. It's been as bad with less powerful gear and lower doses. Blood work done after week 7.

Total cholesterol 181...not bad.
ldl 160...not very good
hdl 11.6! CRAPPY big time
Cholesterol to hdl ratio 15.7 to 1...ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE! This is when my doc and I had a COW at the same time.
Triglycerides 50...good.

Here is my "baseline" without gear

Chol 152...great
ldl 106...great
hdl 45-48...good
tri 50..good
chol to hdl ratio....3.16 to 1.....good

.As far as I and my endochrinologist are concerned this lipid altering side of gear use is the single worst side of steroid use.
In as little as a week hdl decreases. Personally my brother-in-law and I really see a huge decrease after about 3 weeks "on' cycle. The last time I did a long cycle my total cholesterol to hdl ratio plummeted to 15 to 1!...My doc had a cow and so did I!!

According to current medical thought ones total cholesterol to hdl ratio is the single greatest LIPID indicator for assessing ones chances of developing heart disease. Men with low total cholesterols but with crappy hdl have gone on to develope heart disease WITHOUT ANY OTHER RISK FACTORS such as smoking, or diabetes.

Ideally you want an hdl of at least 40 and a ratio of 3.5 to 1 or better.

My mentor, the late great MIKE MENTZER died of heart disease at age 50 and I know for a fact that ARNOLD had more than valve surgery(I am an operating room nurse as well as a trainer)


#3.
Do them to decrease liver stress.
Generally long cycles with non 17aa roids are not that hard on the liver but sometimes one can get into trouble. The short cycle allows for less total stress on the liver and the frequent "off" times allows the liver to regenerate very well.
Generally a healthy liver can take pretty big "hits" for short periods of time without any problem ...it is long term stress that cause liver damage(as seen with elevated GGT enzyme levels)

#4.
Do them if you want to "tone down" your use of steroids.

#5.
Do them if you do NOT want to use HCG during a cycle to prevent testicular atrophy. HPTA shut down will be complete in as little as a week "on" but testicualr atrophy is minimal due to the short length of this shut down. This then allows for better HPTA recovery post cycle.
It is small testes that makes HPTA recovery slow because GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH from the pituitary normally rebound pretty rapidly.
* There will be some testicular shrinkage in any cycle so if you do 4 "on" 4 "off" for several cycles in a row then it would be a good idea to use hcg at 500iu's every 3rd day while "on" to prevent testicular atrophy...the 4 weeks "off" may not be enough time to allow for complete testicular recovery and over the span of several cycles this may impact your HPTA recovery.

You certainly can use hcg while on any short cycle to prevent any testicular shrinkage if you like but it really isn't necessary.

#6.
Do them if you do not want to see much in the way of water retention and do not want to use an estrogen inhibitor or an ace inhibitor(diuretic)


#7.
Do them if you get high blood pressure and do not wish to use the above mentioned ancillaries.

#8. Do them if you are sick of androgenic sides such as ance, prostate hypertrophy and hair loss(if prone to hair loss) etc etc.
Androgen sides come on for two reason...dose used and especially length of time "on". I do not get acne until after 4 weeks on and then I get hammered.....and I hate it.

#9.
Do them if you are tired of walking around with high estrogen levels for months on end and do not wish to or cannot afford to use an estrogen inhibitor. High estrogen levels are NOT good for the prostate at all!

You certainly can use estrogen inhibitors if you like if you want to keep estrogen levels down and experience very little water retention.


WHY NOT TO DO THEM

Obviously if you compete at a high level then short cycles are probably not the best for you, BUT I think they are the best way to use steroids for the vast majority of bro's.
Top competitors need to be "on" either all the time or most of the time....thats unfortunate but usually necessary in order to get freaky huge which is now needed to win big.


WHAT TO EXPECT

If one is not yet at ones natural maximum level of muscular developement then very good gains can be seen of up to 15 pounds and 10 pounds kept after a 4 weeker...as long as you train correctly as a natural post cycle.

If one is off gear and has dropped to ones natural max then a short cycle can add up to 10 pounds. If you take no more than 6 weeks off after each four weeker you will not loose much...then in each successive cycle you can still gain but the gains will be smaller the further you get from your natural max.

Those that are off cycle and have not yet shrunk down to their natural max can still gain well with successive short cycles but don't expect to win at the national level.

One of the things I like about short cycles is the short time "off" between cycles.......muscular atrophy is minimal during the off time and you are allowing for frequent bodily normalization after minimal time "on". LESS SIDES IN GENERAL, LESS TIME WITH A SHITTY LIPID PROFILE and LESS MUSCLE LOSS POST CYCLE.

NOTE: You cannot get "freaky big" in this way...that takes very big doses and spending most of the year, for years on end, on steroids as well as GH and slin, and that my freinds is simply not a good idea unless you plan to make your living as a bodybuilder.

Getting pretty darn big in small steps is a safer way to use gear IMHO...and it messes less with one head too. Some guys really get depressed during "off" times of 12 or more weeks waiting to start their next cycle.


GEAR CHOICE and RATIONAL

The idea behind short cycles is to "get in" quick, hit the androgen receptors hard, get some gains, and then get the hell out as fast as possible so as to minimize sides. So with this in mind one should only use orals and rapid acting/clearing injectables. The limited time "on' simply doesn't justify the use of the "slower" esterfied injectables like deca etc. Also, these same roids take too long to clear the system and that too goes against the philosophy of short cycles.

The gear choosen should be powerful for best results and doses need to be decent as well in order to get the most from the short time on.
You can use mild gear like anavar but your results will be reduced."

Im a fan of short cycles-but the 2 weeks on 2 weeks off I think is way too short to have built up to decent blood levels. Even an ace ester, 4 weeks is pushing it. I think 6-7 weeks is a nice length.
It means the base needs to be short esters and if long esters are going to be used it has to be a front load and then ride the ester, but timing is important otherwise pct wll be a balls up.
Ive used EQ as a front load for 4 weeks and then rode the ester for 3 weeks while running test prop and winny and was happy with the results and felt it was as good as a low dose over a long cycle

The psychological effect is better as well as you dont need to wait four months to go back on

Nice post-karma

I've never been on a short cycle EVER but my next couple will without a doubt be 6 weekers just for the same reason Yohimbe mentioned, time off.

Like with my current cycle I can only start again July'ish if you use time on + pct= time off theory.

Yip i will also do small ones.
On TRT so no prob with PCT.
Will LOAD the dose for a couple of weeks and then ride the ester.

yeah I agree . I think from now its just going to be short for me ...
The fact that I go out and do a few po10c promotions at clubs through out the year.
i struggle to say no to the ladies who wanna buy me one. And im no rude person !
Easier to stay away from alcohol for 6 weeks than 12 ..

I've always done long extended cycles, but i think my next few are definately gonna be short 6 weekers. I find i grow pretty quickly at first and then i slow down.. Whether its my focus slipping or just the body getting worn down i dunno, but the last few weeks of my cycles seem to be a bit of a waste.

but what would a 4 week cycle look like and would you do pct in between?

I've always done long extended cycles, but i think my next few are definately gonna be short 6 weekers. I find i grow pretty quickly at first and then i slow down.. Whether its my focus slipping or just the body getting worn down i dunno, but the last few weeks of my cycles seem to be a bit of a waste.

I find that i have the same problem.

of course u would do pct in between splash26. a short cycle would probably be something like 150mg test prop + 80mg tren acetate + 50-100mg masteron Prop every other day for 4-5 weeks, then pct would be clomid,kessar and hcg for 3-4 weeks,then 8 weeks off then repeat.

splash26 wrote: but what would a 4 week cycle look like and would you do pct in between?

4 weeks is way too short do a 6 week cycle with some fast acting injectables like test prop and Nandrolone Phenylpropionate with proviron.Here's what i would reccomend:
week: 1-6 proviron@ 40 mg's per day.
week: 1-6 test prop 100mg's EOD.
week:1-6 Nandrolone Phenylpropionate @ 150mg's EOD.
""You might just want to run some letro for the last week of your cycle to make your pct a bit easier"".@ 0.2 mg's per day.

I think that your pct should start fairly soon after your last injection because all of the esters that have been used here above are all short acting.I would do a 3 week pct with HCG AND Nolvadex
PCT:
WEEK:1-3 HCG @ 500iu EOD.
week:1-3 Nolvadex @ 20 mg's per day.

Hope this solves your question bro

well pumped your first fuck up is your nandrolone is higher than your test,if you are going to do this match the difference of the mg dosgaes with masteron. so 100mg test + 50mg masteron prop + 150mg NPP

oh and i wouldnt use letro unless u have serious estrogen issues, arimadex at 0.25- 0.5mg eod . 0.2mg of letro every day is even still to harsh,i would do 0.1mg eod depending on heavy your estrogen based sides are.

DJ with that cycle you suggested a couple of posts up would a person be less likely to start developing gyno issues than with a long cycle using long estered compounds ( letro , adex, etc aside just the cycle length and ester length short vs long)?

yes as there is less estrogen conversion from the test prop and the masteron works like an ai...

Pumped wrote:

splash26 wrote: but what would a 4 week cycle look like and would you do pct in between?

4 weeks is way too short do a 6 week cycle with some fast acting injectables like test prop and Nandrolone Phenylpropionate with proviron.Here's what i would reccomend:
week: 1-6 proviron@ 40 mg's per day.
week: 1-6 test prop 100mg's EOD.
week:1-6 Nandrolone Phenylpropionate @ 150mg's EOD.
""You might just want to run some letro for the last week of your cycle to make your pct a bit easier"".@ 0.2 mg's per day.

I think that your pct should start fairly soon after your last injection because all of the esters that have been used here above are all short acting.I would do a 3 week pct with HCG AND Nolvadex
PCT:
WEEK:1-3 HCG @ 500iu EOD.
week:1-3 Nolvadex @ 20 mg's per day.

Hope this solves your question bro

Been there done that. Love this cycle but it really only kicked in in week 7/8. It reaally picked up at 12 when i stopped.

I would LOAD the dose.

so something like this?


a 6 week cycle with some fast acting injectables like test prop and Nandrolone Phenylpropionate with proviron:
week: 1-6 proviron@ 40 mg's per day.
week: 1-6 test prop 100mg's EOD.
week: 1-6 masteron 50mg's EOD.
week:1-6 Nandrolone Phenylpropionate @ 150mg's EOD.


your pct should start soon after your last injection because all of the esters that have been used here above are all short acting.I would do a 3 week pct with HCG AND Nolvadex
PCT:
WEEK:1-3 HCG @ 500iu EOD.
week:1-3 Nolvadex @ 20 mg's per day.
arimadex at 0.25- 0.5mg eod
0.1mg of letro eod

is this right guys?

yes apart from the letro and a-dex in your pct

can you use hcg right threw or do yuo think its a waste?