Cycle and post cycle suggestions

Hey guys,

I have been training for over 8 years now but 2 years ago i got into a fight and broke my hand which after series of Operations took me out of the gym for over 6 months. After that i got lazy and took me almost 2 years to get back into training.I started off but muscle memory wasnt happening quick enough so i decided to hit a little cycle to "boost" my training.

My cycle is 10 weeks of equipose at 2 mls or 200 mgs per week and 12 weeks of winstrol . Since i didnt find the oral form and i find winstrol a pain to inject constantly i have been drinking .5 mls ED. That would make it 25 mgs of stanazol ED. I added 2 vials of testoviron with one shot at the start of the cycle and another next month to keep my test lvls up and try and avoid a shut down. Im on week 8 now. The gains are ok (im not sure what are the gains and what is muscle memory part though) but im looking good and my stregth is ok. I was really hoping to put on more strength and not size but it went vice versa. Im coming to an end of the cycle soon . So i have a few questions if you guys dont mind.

Many ppl say that you should not even go on any form of PCT as these are low dosages and these steroids dont really shut you down. But many years ago i had a bad shut down from trenbolan deca course (yes please dont flame me it was a bad move and choice but i was young) which put me off juice big time.

I havent noticed any difference in testies size but im not sure. I do however plan to go on 3 weeks of clomid with week 1 being 100 mgs ED and weeks 2 and 3 being 50 mgs ED just incase about 8 days after my last equipose shot. I also plan on getting injectible reverzine and some clenbuterol as well as i was told that both have good effect on suppressing cortisol lvls during post cycle.But also i understand that these two should make me get more ripped and get some more strength as well.

Now here come the questions for all u juice gurus out there,
A.Should i add kessar with clomid or just go for clomid only?
B.What dosages of clen and reverzine should i be taking and also i understand the body gets used to the substances quickly.
c.What are the long term side effects of these two drugs? I used reverzine ages ago and i remember getting some cold sweats in the gym but that was about it. I read somewhere that after you stop using everzine the fat returns big time to the abdominal area. Is this true? Also i read that clen eats tissue around the heart. Is it true?

I was thinking of adding a good zma supplement with some tribex and lots of vitamin c as soon as i take the last winny drink.

Finally i plan to stay off for atleast 14 weeks from juice but then i wanna do another course. I dont want to do test anapolin tren or dbol as im prone to losing hair and propecia kills my libido so thats out of the question.

So i was thinking Anavar / equipose or Anavar / winny?I understand anavar doesnt influence ur own bodys hormone production so do i need to add a long acting test esther or not? What you guys think. I just wanna get stronger and not bigger and i keep getting bigger but not really much stronger. i see a lot of much smaller guys lifting heavier weights than me and its driving me up the wall.

Comment on everything guys pls!

As for getting bigger not stronger, maybe you should look at how you are training i.e. train for strength not size.

How do your workouts look?
exercises, sets, reps, weight as % of Max?

I think that by the time you read this post you probably already know what the problem is. Thats to say you carried on reading posts on here.

Ill start the list.

1. Too little Test
2. Too little EQ
3. Winstrol swallowed will pass through the liver - too long on Winstrol

I wouldn't even consider stopping here and just dive straight into the next cycle.
No Orals.
Since you're already on some EQ, up the dose to 600mg.
Up the test to 500-600mg.
Another 12 weeks.

The only reason why i took testoviron is to keep the androgen lvls balanced in the body to avoid a shut down. if i wanted to do a 600 mgs of test a week i wouldnt do eq at all or winstrol or testoviron I would have done test suspension and trebolone acetate with some protobol and anavar. 600 mgs of eq per week? is that not excessive? I understand that the oral tablet form of winstrol is just the same compound as the injectible one so what do you mean by it goes through the liver fast?. Im not looking for bloatness hair loss or gyno. What about clen and reverzine? what about pct thats the info im really looking for

Lesa wrote:

The only reason why i took testoviron is to keep the androgen lvls balanced in the body to avoid a shut down.

I know what you mean, but, maintaining a reasonable level of test will just prevent a "dead dick"!!

Exogenous test will not prevent shut down. Any androgen in excess of endogenous levels will actually cause shut down through negative feed back.

So i suppose then pct even after a cycle like this should be done?what about long term side effects of reverzine and clen

Honestly, I'm struggling to give input here.

You are running low doses of anabolics, maybe so low that they may only serve to suppress your natural test.

I think I've got to go with jackrabbit here and suggest you up your steroid doses so that they are def. in an effective range. You could keep the test lowish but I'd suggest a min of 400mg / week.

As for the Eq, up it to at least 400mg per week.

Either that or run clean, kinda go big / effective or go home.
You don't get subtle results fast with steroids.
If you just want to get back to where you were before you stopped, just do the time in the gym and spend your money on food and good supps.

have you actually read what i wrote in my first post? i wasnt looking to get bloated or get exposed to bolding issues with test. Does every cycle has to include test? whats wrong with putting couple of kgs of quality muscle and skip all the post cycle depression and estrogen issues that follow any test cycle. long term sides of reverzine and clen? no one seems to want to add input to this or no one knows?

I think this will help you www.steroid.com/drugprof.php

Now here come the questions for all u juice gurus out there,
A.Should i add kessar with clomid or just go for clomid only?
B.What dosages of clen and reverzine should i be taking and also i understand the body gets used to the substances quickly.
c.What are the long term side effects of these two drugs? I used reverzine ages ago and i remember getting some cold sweats in the gym but that was about it. I read somewhere that after you stop using everzine the fat returns big time to the abdominal area. Is this true? Also i read that clen eats tissue around the heart. Is it true?

I was thinking of adding a good zma supplement with some tribex and lots of vitamin c as soon as i take the last winny drink.

Finally i plan to stay off for atleast 14 weeks from juice but then i wanna do another course. I dont want to do test anapolin tren or dbol as im prone to losing hair and propecia kills my libido so thats out of the question.

So i was thinking Anavar / equipose or Anavar / winny?I understand anavar doesnt influence ur own bodys hormone production so do i need to add a long acting test esther or not? What you guys think. I just wanna get stronger and not bigger and i keep getting bigger but not really much stronger. i see a lot of much smaller guys lifting heavier weights than me and its driving me up the wall.

My Response:
A: Take both, if these are your only 2 compounds you are using.
B: You would need to cycle them, 2 weeks on the one, the 2 weeks on the other. Dosages, as much as you can handle.
C: Define long term, how long you plan to go on them? Fat only returns in a big way if you neglect your diet and training

ZMA and vit c should be there as a standard during your course, but in PCT Vit c is vital to keep your immune system up and try and stay anabolic, tribex is a good inclusion IMO.

First recover from your current course and then you can look at another one.

Your propecia / finpecia comment:
Winny is a DHT derivative and you should be taking that anyways as one of it's main sides is hair loss, so if propecia kills your libido and you don't want to take it, then rather stay away from the DHT stuff. Cialis is good for libido anyways and the tribex should also help or any test boosters.

Your last paragraph, I suggest you look at diet as I assume your carbs are low and that is what will determine most of your stregnth increase, if you have low carbs and high protein you can take tons of gear and your strength will progress very slowly.

Also, do not compete with guys in gym, it's all about you and not them. you have no idea what they are taking and might just have better genetics anyways. Focus your training around strength and it will come, diet will have to e in line as well.

Thanks for that response netro.

A. The reason i only got clomid and kessar is because my supplier said that because the cycle i am on is not "heavy" the pct shouldnt be heavy as well. I can get aold of hcg as well if need be. Do you think i should go for hcg as well as these 2 ? Also eq is a long acting esther when exactly should i start the pct. About 2 weeks after last shot? what do you think?

B. im not planning on taking reverzine or clen for too long. maybe 2-4 weeks of each? But when i say long term side effects is that i heard that reverzine destroys fat cells or something like that and once you stop using it the reverse effect is quite bad. Is this true or just typical gym bs talk? And someone was telling me that clen is very bad for the heart as it eats tissue around it. Also true or false?

as for the last paragraph you are 100 % right . I shouldnt be trying to compete with other dudes but damn it sucks when a dude smaller then u comes to bench the same weight as you.

Yes I have read it a couple of times punchy:P (zap my karma, I dare you):laugh:

You are using Winstrol @ 25mg ED i.e. DHT based anabolic i.e. known for hair-loss in those that are susceptible.
In addition, "Winstrol is alkylated, it is also pretty liver toxic, having one of the worst hepatoxicity (mg for mg) of any steroid."
So 12 weeks may be ill advised.
The saving grace is that the doses may be too low to cause any noticeable sides or gains.

As for the Equipoise @ 200mg / week:
"Eq is very closely related to testosterone (being only one double bond different) & does aromatise but at about half the rate of Testosterone.
Eq, just as with almost any anabolic steroids, will cause suppression of your endogenous hormones, such as endogenous LH, FSH, and testosterone.
Typically, as exogenous androgen levels rise, endogenous (natural) levels fall.
This is why Eq is almost never used alone, and some form of injectable testosterone is the most common addition to a cycle where Eq is being used."
So you are not getting away entirely estrogen free i.e. some water retention will happen as a result. There will aslo be some HPTA suppression.
Again the dose is low so sides & gains will be minimal and any gains will be slow due to the long ester of Eq.

Testoviron depot, Substance: testosterone enanthate, Delivery: 1 ml amp (250 mg/ml)
Assuming that Test En has an active life of approx. 16 days and you injected 250mg at the start of your cycle, by day 8 you would have maybe an additional 128mg of exogenous test in your system. Test binds strongly to the AR, as well as aromatises. Added to this your endogenous test levels were normal i.e. it was a starting dose.
This would serve to suppress your HPTA and allow for some estrogen bloat for the first half of the month and low test levels for the second half of the month i.e. inconsistent test levels with elevated estrogen levels.
Test is also converted to DHT by the 5alpha-reductase enzyme, so hair-loss sides are a possibility too.
Again the doses are low, so sides & gains may be limited, and any gains will be slow due to the long ester.

So taking all this into consideration, the short answer is YES, I think it would be wise to run A PCT.
If "PCT info is what you are really lookin for" Read the PCT section, there is more than enough info there on exactly how to do it, Although I'm personally not a big fan of HCG.

As to your goals, you want fast strength gains without increasing size with no bloat, gyno or hair-loss risk i.e. cake & eat it.
As to your choice of anabolics, the hair-loss issue almost eliminates any DHT bases steroids e.g. Winstrol, Anavar, etc.
The no bloat, no gyno eliminates most anabolics except DHT bases steroids.
The no gyno also puts the nandrolones out, and Tren is def. out, Punchy.
The fast results makes long estered drugs unsuitable. Catch 22!!!!!

But you seem to have your mind made up, so carry on. Good luck.

As for clen and reverzine; I have no experience with them so I won't comment.