Starting a Keto diet

Well hi there folks! Been a long time since I have been in the gym or on a diet. Want to get back into it by starting with a Keto diet and combine it with a Max OT style of training to lose weight.

31y old
178cm
87kg
BF% unknown

Used Harris Benedict formula to calculate daily calories. Will be doing weights 5 times a week and cardio 3 times a week. Shooting for roughly 2100 cal a day.

Meal 1: 2 Egg Whites + 4 Whole Eggs (36g P 20g F)
Multivitamin and Minerals
Calcium + Magnesium
7g Psylium Husk Fiber
1 cup of Coffee with Coconut Milk

Meal 2: 45g Muscletech Iso Whey Shake + 30g Coconut Oil Powder (36g P 8.7g C 24g F)

Meal 3: 1 Can of tuna + 20ml Extra virgin olive oil (23g P 20g F)

Meal 4: 45g Muscletech Iso Whey + 40g Natty PB (36g P 11,7g C 20g F)

Meal 5: Skinless Deboned Chicken Breast 175g (40g p 1.8g C 22g F)
Macadamia Nuts 26g
7g Psylium Husk Fiber

Meal 6: 6 x Salmon Oil Gel Caps (36g P 7.2g C 22g F)
Muscletech Iso Whey Protein Shake 45g
14g Butter and 22g Natural Peanut Butter mix

Would like to know if my diet is on the right track. Used to rely on DJ to do my diets for me. Protein is 210g, Carbs around 30g, 128g Fat. I will also fast one day before I start the diet as I have read it gets you into Ketosis quicker.

Hi Bud.

Drop your carbs to no more than 15-20g for the first four weeks so you ensure deep Ketosis then you can up it to no more than 50g but on Keto you want to aim for 0 carbs and keep the residual carbs from non direct sources to under 15g Max 20g

Okay thanks, I'll switch out the PB with oils to get the carbs down. I read somewhere that you don't want Protein + Fat after a workout, just a protein shake. Is this correct?

If Keto is your aim, go for protein and fats. Highest priority is to stay in ketosis, as long as you are getting in protein in the next couple of hours you won't go "catabolic" or some shit. Whey + Avo/coconut oil is wonderful for example.

I'm sure there are arguments for protein only. But something like whey alone is probably a bad idea. Protein can raise insulin levels (especially l-leucine).

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I bought some KetoCaNa by KetoSports. Exogenous ketones. Will this be better to use with my post workout shake than fat with regards to the insulin and fat?

I do whey and a oil like coconut oil or avocado oil or extra virgin olive oil. Then half an hour later a meal like whole eggs and oil or mince cooked with some oil

milktuds wrote: I bought some KetoCaNa by KetoSports. Exogenous ketones. Will this be better to use with my post workout shake than fat with regards to the insulin and fat?

The point of ketosis, is that your liver produces it's own ketones from fat to use as energy. So ketone supplements are a shill.

If you want to get into keto faster, do a short water fast. If you want to ensure you stay in keto, pay attention to trace-carb frequency.

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Okay, that makes sense.

Rooi Bul 86 wrote: I do whey and a oil like coconut oil or avocado oil or extra virgin olive oil. Then half an hour later a meal like whole eggs and oil or mince cooked with some oil

So if I understand correctly it's only on a carb based diet that you don't want fats pre or post workout with your carbs as the insulin will store the fat, but with Keto fat pre and post workout is fine?

Grossly oversimplified. But pretty much. ☺️

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Furk wrote: If Keto is your aim, go for protein and fats. Highest priority is to stay in ketosis, as long as you are getting in protein in the next couple of hours you won't go "catabolic" or some shit. Whey + Avo/coconut oil is wonderful for example.

I'm sure there are arguments for protein only. But something like whey alone is probably a bad idea. Protein can raise insulin levels (especially l-leucine).

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People think Keto is a protein diet but it's not it's a fat diet protein optional. I would stay away from Whey on Keto.
1) If the quality is even slightly off you get quick release sugar that will annihilate your diet.
2) You don't need the extra protein on this diet. Go for whole foods for your daily protein requirements.
3) Save the Whey for your keto recipes.

Pyro, not arguing you point at all. In fact most people on non-keto diets can get away without whey.
Milktuds asked how to use whey and I tried to make it work. In fact, whey is probably the most unintentional way you can screw up keto.

Gonna limit shakes to 2 a day. The Iso whey has 6% carbs (Muscletech).

I'll drop the protein down to 180 if need be and up the fats, I know Lyle McDonald says you need 150g Protein min when you start. After that you can drop down lower. I'll have to see how my body reacts/adapts first.

Diet looks like this now:

Meal 1: 1 egg white, 5 whole eggs + Psylium Husk Fiber

Meal 2: Natty PB + Iso Whey

Meal 3: Skinless deboned chicken breast + Macadamia nuts

Meal 4: Natty PB + Iso Whey

Meal 5: Mince + Extra virgin olive oil

Meal 6: Tuna + Extra virgin oilive oil + salmon oil gel caps

203g P; 25.2g C (From PB, nuts and Whey); 129g F

Making me hungry Milktuds Diet is looking good.
I'm going to give some of my views:

1) On Keto I usually did my psyllium husk before bed, I would feel too bloated and uncomfortable if I did it in the day. Plus if I take it at night my digestion worked like clockwork.
2) You can be pretty lax with the fats on Keto, if you enjoy your food you are more likely to adhere to the diet. Practically what I mean is, have chicken with skin, don't drain all of the fat out of the mince, have bacon and eggs for breakfast every once in while, have solid food instead of a shake. (all of this accounting for your macros obviously)
3) Vitamins and mineral content is always skewed on Keto. Try to compensate. I know you need to keep carbs zero, but you can get away with *some* leafy greens. Baby spinach and watercress are good options. Multi-vitamin and mineral supplement will be extremely beneficial and I wouldn't go Keto without them.
4) If you need to shave back carbs somewhere, cut the peanut butter first. Peanuts are actually beans, I think that's why the carb content is high. And because it's in a puree form it's super easy to over eat on it. Brazil nuts are probably the best option, high in minerals and low in carbs. If you get bored with nuts, try avo.

Of course I'm knit-picking, those are just my thoughts. Cheers mate.

I have also considered taking the husk at night, guess I'll move the salmon oil to meal 1. Think fiber attaches to EFA and pulls it out of the gut rendering it useless. Read it on this forum I think, not sure of the credibility.

I will either take the fiber with a shake and PB, or one hour after Meal 5. 1 hour should be enough for the oils to be absorbed/digested right?

Yeah I will treat myself to steak, salmon and bacon on weekends. Will work on the weekend diet this weekend.

I am taking Optimen every morning with Swanson Magnesium and some garlic oil gels. I also will be taking 100mg potassium citrate every training day.

Furk wrote: Making me hungry Milktuds Diet is looking good.
I'm going to give some of my views:

1) On Keto I usually did my psyllium husk before bed, I would feel too bloated and uncomfortable if I did it in the day. Plus if I take it at night my digestion worked like clockwork.
2) You can be pretty lax with the fats on Keto, if you enjoy your food you are more likely to adhere to the diet. Practically what I mean is, have chicken with skin, don't drain all of the fat out of the mince, have bacon and eggs for breakfast every once in while, have solid food instead of a shake. (all of this accounting for your macros obviously)
3) Vitamins and mineral content is always skewed on Keto. Try to compensate. I know you need to keep carbs zero, but you can get away with *some* leafy greens. Baby spinach and watercress are good options. Multi-vitamin and mineral supplement will be extremely beneficial and I wouldn't go Keto without them.
4) If you need to shave back carbs somewhere, cut the peanut butter first. Peanuts are actually beans, I think that's why the carb content is high. And because it's in a puree form it's super easy to over eat on it. Brazil nuts are probably the best option, high in minerals and low in carbs. If you get bored with nuts, try avo.

Of course I'm knit-picking, those are just my thoughts. Cheers mate.

LOL @Furk stepping in eggshells. :lol: Be afraid be very afraid we will snipe you!

Pyroclasm wrote: LOL @Furk stepping in eggshells. :lol: Be afraid be very afraid we will snipe you!

I sincerely don't know what this means. Are you referring to the comment about me being hungry?

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Just pulling your leg. No hassles bud.

@Milktuds back to you..

Furk wrote: Making me hungry Milktuds Diet is looking good.
I'm going to give some of my views:

1) On Keto I usually did my psyllium husk before bed, I would feel too bloated and uncomfortable if I did it in the day. Plus if I take it at night my digestion worked like clockwork.
2) You can be pretty lax with the fats on Keto, if you enjoy your food you are more likely to adhere to the diet. Practically what I mean is, have chicken with skin, don't drain all of the fat out of the mince, have bacon and eggs for breakfast every once in while, have solid food instead of a shake. (all of this accounting for your macros obviously)
3) Vitamins and mineral content is always skewed on Keto. Try to compensate. I know you need to keep carbs zero, but you can get away with *some* leafy greens. Baby spinach and watercress are good options. Multi-vitamin and mineral supplement will be extremely beneficial and I wouldn't go Keto without them.
4) If you need to shave back carbs somewhere, cut the peanut butter first. Peanuts are actually beans, I think that's why the carb content is high. And because it's in a puree form it's super easy to over eat on it. Brazil nuts are probably the best option, high in minerals and low in carbs. If you get bored with nuts, try avo.

Of course I'm knit-picking, those are just my thoughts. Cheers mate.

What are your thoughts on stevia glycerite(sweetener), 1 can diet soda a day (no caffeine) and erythritol (sweetener)? Should they be avoided until the 3rd week of the diet etc.. or a no go?

Some people say that the sweetness raises insulin levels while in some books I've read they say it doesn't affect blood glucose levels, so which is it?

I always play it safe and avoid Diet Soda for the first 4 weeks then I have a glass or two of Tab or Sprite Zero when ever I feel like it. But for me Tab is better.

OK so when I refer to "artificial sweeteners", I mean the chemicals made in labs like Ace-K and aspartame etc.

Artificial sweeteners (at least ones available and used in South Africa) does not affect insulin. Neither does it your body use itself so it passes right through your digestive system. The catch is that you can't really buy those sweeteners raw, the products they are sold in usually use lactose or malto-dextrose or something alike as a bulking agent. Those bulking agents obviously carry a carbohydrate caloric load, so that makes them unusable.

Diet sodas: Despite all the hate they get, I believe this is a great tool for the obese and diabetics to use to start cutting useless calories. Of course ideally we should probably stay to pure water for hydration. The reason why they are feasible is because the bulking agent is carbonated water, so no need to use a caloric powder. That being said, I'm speaking broadly, there may be some diet sodas that still contain a tiny caloric value.

Sugar alcohols: Made from glucose, although have low or no GI. On paper they appear to work as fibre and not raise blood sugar or insulin, with erythritol being the most acceptable (if only). It may be a useful alternative for diabetics or the obese to eat those fake candies and plastic chocolates, but for Keto there is just too many uncontrolled factors. Plus, for myself at least, it's horrible on your digestive system. Bloat up quickly and diarrhea-release everything in my gut. Really these things make me feel awful.

Stevia: Not too clued up about it because quite frankly I can't stand the taste. Remember, just because something is "natural" doesn't make it inherently superior to competitors.

In the original The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle Mcdonald, he advises against all forms of sweeteners. For fasting most experts will also. It's not because the artifical sweeteners will affect insulin, but how it can entice you to consume carbs. So if diet sodas help you adhere to your diet, awesome. If they trigger your cravings /appetite for more, stay away. For me carbonated water helps a lot supres apetite for fasting.

Long post lol hope it helps mate.

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Rooi Bul 86 wrote: I always play it safe and avoid Diet Soda for the first 4 weeks then I have a glass or two of Tab or Sprite Zero when ever I feel like it. But for me Tab is better.

Tab is a good option. No caffeine, lower sodium.

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I drink water, rooibos tea, black coffee (at the moment), diet pepsi (not at the moment). Currently in the US at the, so looking at the right stuff to buy etc..

Bought some macadamia nut oil, gonna rotate with the olive oil.

I watched these last night. Might help others.

Okay so I did a fasted blood Ketone test and it was 0.8 mmol/L. I am in Ketosis but not fat burning mode. Need to get to 1.5 mmol/L at least. Going to stick to the diet for another week and test again next Friday morning. If it's not above 1.0 mmol/L I will have to make some changes to my diet.

Think I will make the fat with the shakes half natural peanut butter and half butter to cut the carbs more and to increase saturated fat intake. Might also drop the protein down to 180 grams per day and up the fat intake to make up for more calories.

I haven't been cheating. Was thinking about a cheat meal this Sunday, but will wait till I am in nutritional ketosis. Aiming for 1.5 mmol/L - 3.0 mmol/L reading.

Diet is like this now:

Meal 1: 5 whole Eggs + Vitamins and Minerals, Psyllium Husk Fiber, Cinnamon and Chromium Polynicotinate caps.

Meal 2: Whey Isolate + Natural PB

Meal 3: Chicken Breast + Macadamia Nut Oil, Cinnamon and Chromium Polynicotinate caps.

Meal 4: Whey Isolate + Natural PB

Meal 5: Salmon/Steak/Mince + Macadamia Nut Oil/Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Cinnamon and Chromium Polynicotinate caps.

Meal 6: Tuna and Extra Virgin Olive Oil + 6 Salmon Oil Gel Caps

Drink water, decaf coffee and 2 cups regular coffee, Rooibos tea. No sodas.

Any thoughts?

I don't have my notes with me but I think for Keto your protein intake can't be higher than 1.5 or 1.6g or protein per kg lean muscle mass