carb cycling VS keto

I was cutting nicely and training in the mornings with cardio in the afternoons but it's almost the end of the year so pushing for results at lab. So because time is limited I decided to scrap cardio and switch to keto for now.

Apologies for jacking the threat but it seems that three of us (being Mr SA, Sting, and myself) are obviously very interested in the keto diets at the moment. Noted in one of your posts sting that you opting for decaffeinated coffee. Is this due to the idea that high caffeine content affect insulin levels and thus can move one out of ketosis. The reason I ask this is due to the fact that i have been taking the muscletech's snakejuice (Hydroxycut hardcore) as a pre-workout energy booster and when i tested my urine using ketostix last night it actually showed that the concentration of ketones in my urine had dropped from the dark purple zone into the pink zone. I am about to start a cycle of ECA stack whilst on the keto and was a bit worried that its caffeine content may also affect my state of ketosis.

Howeber, i know taht i have read that one needs to take near fatal doses of caffeine for it to have a significant effect on your insulin levels

Caffeine can spike insulin so it's suggested not use have caffeine and stimulants on keto. I've run stimulants (heat) on keto and I know the other guys do as well. I think if you are training though then you will stay in ketosis (different levels like with you from purple to pink) but for people doing atkins, they don't train and this would likely kick them out (this is just an assumption).

Also dont rely on the sticks all the time, there is a thread somewhere where it has been discussed how different factors can influence the result on the ketostix.

You were still pink so you were still in ketosis so dont worry too much in your case

Sting wrote: Caffeine can spike insulin so it's suggested not use have caffeine and stimulants on keto. I've run stimulants (heat) on keto and I know the other guys do as well. I think if you are training though then you will stay in ketosis (different levels like with you from purple to pink) but for people doing atkins, they don't train and this would likely kick them out (this is just an assumption).

Also dont rely on the sticks all the time, there is a thread somewhere where it has been discussed how different factors can influence the result on the ketostix.

You were still pink so you were still in ketosis so dont worry too much in your case

Cheers again for the advice, i do know that there are several factors which influence the colour of the keto stix such as the water concentration of the urine and also the times that its being tested. im going to stay away from the ECA and instead hit some blikzzym instead. I have some stubborn areas around the hips which need ti be blikzzzymed away so i hope that this will help in that regard

@Sting... Is Whey Isolate okay when on Keto???
Busy ordering from LSJ now, and thinking about including that for Post Workout.

Any form of whey will be perfect post workout, be it isolate or concentrate. It all depends if there are any carb-based flavourants added to the mixture.

No... it will just be Evox 100% whey mixed with Raw Isolate and Peanut Butter for Post Workout.

Ok cool, then you dont have anything to worry about!!! Why u keen on isolate? Concentrate is cheaper and serves more or less the same purpose while on a ketogenic diet

Guess so.... Just never tried Isolate....
But yeah, you right, there really is no point.

Really sucks that a person cant grow while on Keto....

Mr_SA wrote: Guess so.... Just never tried Isolate....
But yeah, you right, there really is no point.

Really sucks that a person cant grow while on Keto....

Dude, to be honest, the hardening effets, combined with the weight loss, makes u actually look pretty big. You obviously not going to look hulkish, but as the BF drops, you look more muscular which form is a fair trade off. Also, if u add some kre-alkalyn or some nitrous oxide that is not delivered in a carb-based mixture, you can offset the size gains by carrying around a pretty insane pump!!!

Isolate is better on keto, less carbs. Mr_SA if you are mixing conc. with PB etc it will be fine to use

Thanks Sting and GSP for the responses...

How's Keto going Sting? In Ketosis yet??? Probably only tomorrow will you be in.

It feels like Im in actually, today is only day 2 but the previous days were very low carb days so I think it's possible. Down a kilo as well, definately water though. Yesterday I had the keto b**** headache and felt kak but today I feel good. Im not going to use the stix this time, they are demotivational and a waste of money in my opinion

Yeah, they are expensive...
Rather watch the scale than Ketostix!!

How much Avo per day (Grams) is safe while on Keto??

ok think im going to give it a try
do you guys have a link or something where i can get some sample diets,just to see what tipes of food can be used?
im doing eca and clen..should i drop the eca?
and the carbs in veggies,salads and peanut butter,something to worry about while on keto?

Hey Mr_SA, it's only 1 g carb from sugars in avo per 100g so 100-200g at a time will be fine.

@BOBO, foods include all meats, eggs, limited dairy, free veggies (lettuce and some of the green veggies), oils, nuts (limit).

Make sure you are using a sugar free peanut butter, woolies has the lowest carb value I think, try keep veggies to free veg but also try not to have them for the 1st two weeks of keto if possible, salad is fine but no tomatos, carrots, limit onion (they all contain sugars).

Drop the ECA stack if you want, maybe do keto, then when you hit a plateau add in cardio, and then extend cardio and then add in the stack, respectively (just an idea).

Sting wrote: Hey Mr_SA, it's only 1 g carb from sugars in avo per 100g so 100-200g at a time will be fine.

@BOBO, foods include all meats, eggs, limited dairy, free veggies (lettuce and some of the green veggies), oils, nuts (limit).

Make sure you are using a sugar free peanut butter, woolies has the lowest carb value I think, try keep veggies to free veg but also try not to have them for the 1st two weeks of keto if possible, salad is fine but no tomatos, carrots, limit onion (they all contain sugars).

Drop the ECA stack if you want, maybe do keto, then when you hit a plateau add in cardio, and then extend cardio and then add in the stack, respectively (just an idea).

Great post by Sting. Also remember to balance ur fat intake between saturated and EFA's. I jusr bought a 1L bottle of flaxseed oil which i use as my only fat source along with a high low/fat protein source such as chicken breast or white fish at least three times a day. The other two meals are basically meats such as bacon and eggs, sausage; and other chicken portions such as thighs and drumsticks.

thanx for the help
one last thing...postworkout should only be whey?how long after that do i take fat again?
and on my carb up days?how much is to much?
thanx again

@Sting... you just made my day with that answer!
Keto starts again for me today.... Just about to have second meal!

@BOBO: 1 hour after your post workout shake... have a proper meal.
There is no such thing as too much on your carb up MEALS (It is not a full day, but 2 MEALS). Eat and eat until you are full... and 3 hours later... eat and eat until you are FULL!

Good luck with keto...if you struggle to get into ketosis then drop the avo but I dont see a problem with it. Btw those values on carbs I gave on avo are from nutritiondata.com

Sting-are you doing carb ups on keto for muscle glycogen replacement?

Yep, how often im going to do them im not sure yet. I think i'm going to do them when i feel i need it

Sting wrote: Yep, how often im going to do them im not sure yet. I think i'm going to do them when i feel i need it

Simple high glycemic cardbs or more complex carbs?