Is it wise for me to take PEDs?

Hi I'm new to the forum. Am male, 182cm tall and 22 years old. Have been on 1mg finasteride (finapecia/dht blocker) since 16 for male pattern boldness.
Have been training seriously for 2 and a half years. For example in the last year have logged 279 visits to virgin active (excluding sick days, load shedding, and rest days).
In the first year I noticed significant gains and went from 69kg at 20ish %bf to 75kg at 15ish %bf.
After that went on a 2 month holiday at the end of the uni year and dirty bulked up to 83.5kg at likely 23-25 %bf, first month was consistent training, second month was significantly less, but still multiple times (3) a week.
Then spent from the tail end of january 2019 until now trying to lose enough bodyfat to get a faint 6 pack (12%-14%) as I have never achieved it in my life and decided I wasn't genetically meant to get big so figured I would aim for lean.

Have adjusted training split to some degree and tried all kinds of diet changes varying calories, macros, and food sources.
This brings me to now, at 71.5kg and 18-20% bf. My lifts are all their strongest they've ever been other than legs. Can bench 80kg x 2, raw deadlift 140kgx1, and my squat is pathetic cause I have knee issues, last decent lift was 80kgx5.

This has me confused as to how I can lose 12kg over the course of about a year - drop from 83.5 to 71.5kg and only lose about 4% bf. And have found my fat loss plateaued and am trying to eat maintenance calories.

This led me to getting bloodwork done and all my levels are normal however I have found my free test what I honestly believe to be low. Have visited an endocrinologist and he essentially said I was perfectly healthy because all my levels were "normal" and I had a bmi of 22 (or some close number) which instantly made me realise exactly how serious he was about my concerns.
My test levels came out at

07/02/2020-
T-T 16.33 nmol/ l Ref 9.9-27.8
SHBG 27.7 nmol/l Ref 14.5-48.4
F-T 374.7 Ref 174-729

06/03/2020
T-T 18.32
SHBG 22.3
F-T 475.2

13/03/2020
T-T 12.58
SHGB 21.9
F-T 313.7


Really feel like I have genetically low testosterone and wanted even a 100mg p/w test cycle to see how that would affect me, and my believe my current test levels aren't good for a healthy, active, 22 year old male. Happy to answer any questions and provide other test results if I have them. Thinking of taking RAD140 and want to know if this is advisable and if I am the only one who thinks my testosterone levels should be significantly higher. I would be open to testosterone but would only feel comfortable taking it if prescribed because I wouldn't readily trust other sources, also am not a fan of needles. Sorry for the long post, any help is appreciated.

Tl;Dr - 22yr old, active, male. Believe I have low testosterone and want to know if taking PEDs, specifically RAD140 is advisable.

So you have never taken testosterone?

What about testosterone boosting supplements? I want to try workout if there is something contributing to suppression.

At your age the finasteride can play a part in lowering libido but not testosterone levels.

I would not suggest a SARM or anything suppressing. In my eyes your testosterone is low for your age, it could be at 'normal' at near 1000. So I get the endos point to not want to treat you, but then again if you went to an endo like I go to you would have had a 3.5k bill for bloods as he really wants to understand why something is where it is.

There could be some imbalance and supplementing with testosterone might never uncover what the real reason is. Then the next thing is a endo who wants to help you would probably put you on a rigid protocol to increase natural levels, you to young to be on TRT in my opinion, it's a whole life thing and you have so much of it to live. You may want kids and the rest and going on TRT will just complicate matters and cause large costs down the line. I have spent close on 100k in a year treating things correctly.

Get yourself an appointment with someone else and explain that you want to get to the bottom of this and you not happy with those levels.

Thanks for the reply, really appreciate the advice. And I'm definitely not eager to hop onto anything without fully evaluating whether I'm ready to deal with any very real consequences.

I have never used anabolics, sarms, prohormones, peds or similar. So no to taking testosterone either.
I am a heavy cannabis user with smoking over the past 5 years or so roughly 4 times a week, but have tapered down to once per week via vaporizing it. Never been a tobacco smoker. And drink alcohol once a month or less.
I have used a preworkout that contained dmaa but doubt that is related.
I have also used a couple protein powders that contained test booster (ZMA) but none with sketchy "Supreme Anabolic Support" type ingredients. Also haven't used any for over a year. Just chicken and rice :side:

Only reason I considered sarms is their ease of use, but I also think I would end up worse off in the long run from potential suppression.

Definitely ready to try a new endo, don't intend on visiting the old one again. The old one had me check my ck total-s which was 315 with normal reference range being <172, which I gather is normal/good for me as this is a measure of inflammation of muscles, thus resulting from my weight training.

Also had me check magnesium, fasting blood glucose, ferritin, vitamin (B12, D3(25 OH), S-TSH, Cortisol random, insulin fasting, glucose fasting, and quicki index calc.
His objective was to find the cause of my lethargy, although I was aiming to see why I had lower test then I felt I should have. He said all my levels were good other then CK_total which was high due to muscle stress from training, and my vitamin D which was slightly low. Can provide the numbers but the printout I received doesn't include units.

At this point I think its best for me to stay natural until I have a better understanding of what could be the cause then. Will find another endo after covid-19 has blown over I think, and hopefully they'll be more willing to help see if I can raise my test by finding the cause of it, or if I just genetically have low test.

Please post all those results.

Don't worry about "staying natural" etc. You should really see this as a medical intervention. You are not planning on using supraphysiological doses etc, you are looking to be in an optimal hormone range. Hence, it would be wise to work closely with a doctor. Do not think about trying SARMS or any kind of anabolic to try it out yourself. If you need HRT, this will be a lifelong decision, so don't fuck with methods that could harm you.

Your low T could be a symptom of another issue.
How much cardio do you do? How much volume is your lifting?
Diet? Are you eating red meat and egg yolks?

Test for hemochromatosis. Possibly thyroid issues.

EDIT: Just to add, RAD140? Really? Get that outta your head for the moment and focus on the issue. That could cause you a myriad of problems and could render a doc unable to help you past supplying you with testosterone because your body will be unable to produce. Keep it simple for now and find a doc willing to help. There are some doctors you can consult with in europe and USA if you do your research, if you cannot find an endo that is capable to help you thoroughly.

Will attempt to attach an image of my results to this reply. Did the first 2 tests based on the advice of this forum regarding basic bloods. Had albumin and added hdl and ldl to my second set of tests but lost the piece of paper with the results for those 3. so can get it again if needed but they were all in the reference range.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikl5a8fma6zp8bc/bloods.JPG?dl=0

Here is a link to the image if the inserted image imbedding doesn't work - www.dropbox.com/s/ikl5a8fma6zp8bc/bloods.JPG?dl=0

Not worried about staying natural but I'm not having any obvious or severe illness currently, so want to make an as informed of a decision as I can if I do decide to take any peds. And you're right I would like to be in what I and many others consider an optimal hormonal range. Will be sure not to take any peds until I've done more research and testing (bloodwork - not drug use). I've thought about trt/hrt, not really sure what the difference is between the two to be honest. My initial thought process was just to try a 50-100mg/per week dose of testosterone for a month and see what if any changes I would experience.

I can't think of any other issues that could be causing my low testosterone other than poor genetics :lol:

I don't do much cardio but am doing roughly 2 hours a week of steady state. My workouts are 1-1.5 hours and I train almost every day. With rest days every two weeks or so (whenever I feel absolutely drained), or if I'm sick. It is very possible I over train, but don't think that would result in low testosterone or extra fat holding. I could very well be wrong though. But I'm too addicted to training to take more rest days than absolutely needed.
My split is essentially chest, shoulders, back, and legs. With core, bis and tris sprinkled in on those days based on how things are going. I.e. never train just core, bis, or tris, but may do back and tris on one days, and legs and core on the next, then chest and bis, and then shoulders and tris.

Thanks for the info, will start doing some research into foreign endos/docs as well

Also the endo told me he would check my thyroids but I have no idea if any of the tests he had me do (3rd set) are thyroid related. I had my red and white blood cells analysed (30/01/2020), and everything was in the references ranges other than my MCH which was 26, when the range is 28-45 pg. Not sure if thats related at all but thought I'd drop that in there.

As far as diet I go from eating too clean to eating a load of rubbish. At the moment I've been sticking with instant oats, eggs (whole, usually 4 for breakfast), chicken breast with tasty sauces, and white rice. With steak, sausages, and/or bacon once or twice a week and the occasional meal out. Calorie wise Im eating roughly 2000cal a day but haven't measured it strictly in a long time. I got too pedantic and figured my weight is stable so I don't need to worry, just get the nutrient sources as healthy as I can.

Cool.

So the difference between using PEDs as an athlete/bodybuilder and TRT, is simple.
Athletes want to achieve supraphysiological levels. TRT is simply to replace what is missing in the body - similarly to supplementing with a vitamin in the case you are deficient.

I personally would not try self medicate as if you run into an issue later or choose to stop the self medicating, a doctor may be more reluctant to help.. or honestly you may not find a doc capable of helping then.

Try lowering overall volume (cardio and weights). Lift for 45-60mins with something like 3 reps per set (go heavy if you have good form). Remove all alcohol.

There are other complex issues that can cause low T - don't blame genetics yet.
People that use underground gear etc do not plan to take it everyday for the rest of their lives - they use it to achieve levels of performance or aesthetics.

You should consider long term effects of what you do - hence view TRT as a therapy (which is inherently what it is). Don't associate PEDs with TRT. There are issues that can arise from TRT and you should be monitored by a Doctor should this be the solution.

I would always recommend getting in plenty animal fats and protein but do your own research and make a decision.

Okay that makes sense, I'm not looking to put myself under unnecessary risk by aiming for unnatural hormone levels. And think going the fully prescribed and monitored route is best. Which I guess brings me back to the main reason I posted here. To confirm, or disagree that I have lower test then I should (old endo thought I was perfect, I disagree) so need to find a new one who maybe can see my point and help me find a cause of it or at least be ready to prescribe me test as a trial with the understanding it could be for life if I can't find anything else to fix.
And I'm not looking for shortcuts, I love training. Just feel like I should have achieved a lot more and feel like my test levels are low for my age and lifestyle. If I ate like shit and never trained then it would make sense. But given the effort I put in I feel shortchanged.

I'll try lowering my volume once I can get back to gym. Sadly with the virus going around and everything being locked down and my lack of adequate equipment I'm just going to try and maintain my gains as much as possible.
Will also try getting in more proper animal fats, thinks the eggs and mince have a good amount to start with but will see if more makes a difference

good morning,


i have to question why you were put on Propecia at the AGE OF 16????? i understand about the MPB but at 16 your hormones are still doing their thing, i just don't understand why you would be taking a HARSH compound at that age.

i was once told by a very well known doc on this forum, you have to weight up the options, Muscle or Hair.

anyone that has experience with steroids will tell you DHT compounds are the ones that take your sex drive and push it through the roof. Anyone taken masteron and wanted to "pound the pussy through the mattress???" that's cos of the DHT component.

now you are blocking DHT and that's why your libido is shot to a ball of shit. Propecia has also been known to cause a lot of issues long term. i have guys tell me of permanent libido loss from using it for many years. Shock stories to be honest, but pretty crazy!

i just don't feel at 16 you should have been using that sortve substance

Doe wrote: Not worried about staying natural but I'm not having any obvious or severe illness currently, so want to make an as informed of a decision as I can if I do decide to take any peds. And you're right I would like to be in what I and many others consider an optimal hormonal range. Will be sure not to take any peds until I've done more research and testing (bloodwork - not drug use). I've thought about trt/hrt, not really sure what the difference is between the two to be honest. My initial thought process was just to try a 50-100mg/per week dose of testosterone for a month and see what if any changes I would experience.

I can't think of any other issues that could be causing my low testosterone other than poor genetics :lol:

I don't do much cardio but am doing roughly 2 hours a week of steady state. My workouts are 1-1.5 hours and I train almost every day. With rest days every two weeks or so (whenever I feel absolutely drained), or if I'm sick. It is very possible I over train, but don't think that would result in low testosterone or extra fat holding. I could very well be wrong though. But I'm too addicted to training to take more rest days than absolutely needed.
My split is essentially chest, shoulders, back, and legs. With core, bis and tris sprinkled in on those days based on how things are going. I.e. never train just core, bis, or tris, but may do back and tris on one days, and legs and core on the next, then chest and bis, and then shoulders and tris.

Thanks for the info, will start doing some research into foreign endos/docs as well

Also the endo told me he would check my thyroids but I have no idea if any of the tests he had me do (3rd set) are thyroid related. I had my red and white blood cells analysed (30/01/2020), and everything was in the references ranges other than my MCH which was 26, when the range is 28-45 pg. Not sure if thats related at all but thought I'd drop that in there.

As far as diet I go from eating too clean to eating a load of rubbish. At the moment I've been sticking with instant oats, eggs (whole, usually 4 for breakfast), chicken breast with tasty sauces, and white rice. With steak, sausages, and/or bacon once or twice a week and the occasional meal out. Calorie wise Im eating roughly 2000cal a day but haven't measured it strictly in a long time. I got too pedantic and figured my weight is stable so I don't need to worry, just get the nutrient sources as healthy as I can.

what are your stats? 2000 cals a day at 183cm and 22 years old training 7 days a week seems incredibly low in my opinion.

post up an average daily diet for you?

Empire wrote:
what are your stats? 2000 cals a day at 183cm and 22 years old training 7 days a week seems incredibly low in my opinion.

post up an average daily diet for you?

Yeah also feel like crap (hungry) a lot eating that little but honestly don't know what else to do. I'm trying to be less harsh on my diet as I have been in the past. But haven't lost or gained significant weight for 2 months so seem to have found a spot close to my maintenance. My current focus is eating clean but will over eat
some days and eat less on others, very confident in saying it averages around that mark (2000cal). I think part of my problem is having crash dieted too hard in the past possibly slowing down my metabolism, combined with the fact I weigh only 71kg ish at 6ft ish with a high bf% (18-20% ish), meaning I don't have much muscle mass to support a high metabolism as a lot of my already low weight is fat (burning nothing, I think).

Right now my average day would be a bowl of oats (50g raw weight), 1 tablespoon sugar, apples (2), some whole eggs (4), 2 slices of white bread, 200-400g jasmine rice (Cooked weight), 300-400 grams of chicken breast (cooked weight), 2 peaches, and maybe some fatty cuts of red meat. I haven't been ultra consistent as it just drove me insane, weighing endlessly, calculating calories, etc. But I hope that gives some indication of my food intake.

Empire wrote: good morning,


i have to question why you were put on Propecia at the AGE OF 16????? i understand about the MPB but at 16 your hormones are still doing their thing, i just don't understand why you would be taking a HARSH compound at that age.

i was once told by a very well known doc on this forum, you have to weight up the options, Muscle or Hair.

anyone that has experience with steroids will tell you DHT compounds are the ones that take your sex drive and push it through the roof. Anyone taken masteron and wanted to "pound the pussy through the mattress???" that's cos of the DHT component.

now you are blocking DHT and that's why your libido is shot to a ball of shit. Propecia has also been known to cause a lot of issues long term. i have guys tell me of permanent libido loss from using it for many years. Shock stories to be honest, but pretty crazy!

i just don't feel at 16 you should have been using that sortve substance

I fully understand your point, if I knew what I do know about hormones back then I would've said bugger it and accepted the balding. But I feel if I stop taking it now I won't get my puberty back, and will have even lower test levels as it will start converting to dht.
At the time I was assured a dose as small as 1mg should be fine and potential impotence at higher amounts...pfft
the more I ponder on it the more I feel it could've somehow stunted the peak of my puberty.

The reason I took it is I took roaccutane for acne and noticed I'd got major hairloss, and it essentially kickstarted my genetic mpb an unknown number of years earlier than when it would've naturally set in. At 16 I had lost major hair density, follicle size, and receded 2 inches each side of my hairline, within a couple of months, maybe even 1 or 2. And so I went to the dermatologist and they told me about it, and being naive and keen to not be bald that young I was just excited to try save my hair. And it brought my hairline a little forward and majorly increased my hair quality back to what it used to be. It has definitely has allowed me to keep my hair luscious and no one is the wiser that I ever had or will have balding.

I'm still relatively young and haven't encountered any issues as far as libido, in fact I would go far as to say I am a nymphomaniac, to the point where some times I wish I could take pills to lower my libido. And I wish I was exaggerating but I'm not. However at the outset of taking it my plan has been to stop taking it as soon as I notice any side effects such as lack of libido, erectile disfunction or the like. Or if I found it wasn't working as effectively (started balding again/kept balding), or had to increase the dose I would stop.
I still haven't experienced anything (noticeable side effects) but in a search to find why I can't seem to lose fat without losing all my muscle at the same time I went to check my hormones thinking the extra test from the blocking of 5a-reductase of it into dht had left me with high estrogen levels along with elevated test. The booklet states an upto 15% increase in testosterone and/or estrogen. That is when I found out my testosterone was low (in my opinion), and my estrogen was perfectly normal, if not on the low side. And from I can gather if I stop taking the finasteride now my testosterone will only decrease further as more will convert to dht.

Edit: Add- I'm ready to stop taking the finasteride and see how that could impact my hormones and if it results in higher test or better body composition/muscle building, I'd be happy to be bald if I'm jacked/lean. Just don't want to stop taking it, potentially lose testosterone, and be bald and skinny fat.

Doe wrote:

Empire wrote:
what are your stats? 2000 cals a day at 183cm and 22 years old training 7 days a week seems incredibly low in my opinion.

post up an average daily diet for you?

Yeah also feel like crap (hungry) a lot eating that little but honestly don't know what else to do. I'm trying to be less harsh on my diet as I have been in the past. But haven't lost or gained significant weight for 2 months so seem to have found a spot close to my maintenance. My current focus is eating clean but will over eat
some days and eat less on others, very confident in saying it averages around that mark (2000cal). I think part of my problem is having crash dieted too hard in the past possibly slowing down my metabolism, combined with the fact I weigh only 71kg ish at 6ft ish with a high bf% (18-20% ish), meaning I don't have much muscle mass to support a high metabolism as a lot of my already low weight is fat (burning nothing, I think).

Right now my average day would be a bowl of oats (50g raw weight), 1 tablespoon sugar, apples (2), some whole eggs (4), 2 slices of white bread, 200-400g jasmine rice (Cooked weight), 300-400 grams of chicken breast (cooked weight), 2 peaches, and maybe some fatty cuts of red meat. I haven't been ultra consistent as it just drove me insane, weighing endlessly, calculating calories, etc. But I hope that gives some indication of my food intake.

ok here is something to ponder.

I see your test levels and your SHBG levels, and yes testosterone is on the lower side, and SHBG on the higher side this can be rectified.

think of basic human survival in cave man-day, when food is low(winter months) the hunters would become lethargic and do not much hunting and working as they are there to survive, and that is generally because fruit and carbs and excess of fatty meat wasn't available (winter and snow would make animals scarce, and fruit would die in the cold) so what would happen is your their hormone levels would drop, just to maintain basic survival. so if you are trying to survive and you are barely eating enough to do so, testosterone levels would diminish, thyroid levels would diminish as the body is trying to conserve as much energy as possible.

however come the change of seasons, food would become more plentiful so when eating in abundance again would bring the body out of survival mode, and start becoming fully nourished again. now when foods are higher, especially based carbohydrate foods, insulin is secreted, and we know that higher levels of insulin have been known to lower SHBG. so here comes the logical thinking of this point... When food is higher, and your body is fully nourished, your hormones come right, and when in summer that is MATING season, so when that happens and hormones are at their highest, the FRUIT OF THE LOINS is more desirable.

look at anorexic women and highly undernourished women for that matter, the first thing they lose is their period, as their reproductive system shuts down as they aren't eating enough food to survive themselves, how are they supposed to support growing a human inside of them when caloric needs would be even higher than normal. Same thing here, when not eating enough your hormone levels are going to plummet. anyone who has been through a drastic contest prep diet will attest to that, at about 8 weeks out, www.youporn.com goes out the window and you tend to go to www.foodporn.com so

remember the body is designed to survive. when food is low, your body wants to hold on to as much stored energy as possible (body fat) so what it does it starts lowering your energy so that you burn less, and store more for the long term survival. so how does it lower your energy requirements? well, thyroid levels decrease and you become lethargic. your body starts to sacrifice muscle, as the more muscle you have the more energy you burn and that's a no-no at this stage! so looking at survival, your 2000 cals is enough to survive, but you want to grow muscle and get jacked and ripped right?

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bringing me back to your situation. also i am going to speak in general terms here, i have written countless post that are dieted related ( look for any post by user DJ, and you will see thats me.) and also this is what i do for a living so i want to help out but being a coach is my bread and butter so sorry if i don't spell it out completely for you.

1.) YOU SHOULD BE TAKING IN 2500-2600 CALORIES DAILY.

doing a quick look at your stats at 71kgs, a rough estimation of calorie needs you your BMR is about 1500 so your maintenance level is about 2030 so let say you want to get to 80kgs to start (slow goal not to put on too much fat) you need to eat the same amount of food of someone who is 80kgs. so that at maintenance is around 2500. which is still higher than you are currently so you will grow.

2.) YOU NEED TO TRACK YOUR FOOD AND EAT A BETTER MACRO SPLIT

by not tracking your diet and being "loose" you are never going to get to where you want to be. it's like investing money in the stock exchange, but you don't have figures of what the share price is yesterday, or if it moved up or down, or what its currently trading at. so essentially you don't know how well your investment is performing!

you need to consume 2.2g of protein per kg of muscle. then we get fat intake. FATS ARE VITAL. so many people are scared of fats, but they are needed for our endocrine system so for you with a crashed profile of hormones as such to start I would get 35% of your calories from fat. so around 95g of fat daily.

then the balance of your calories from carbs. Remember what I told you about the caveman? food is higher, so now hormones will bounce back, carbs are higher meaning more insulin which means less SHBG...

3.) YOU NEED TO HIT YOUR MACROS EVERYDAY WITH A 5% TOLERANCE FOR LESS OR MORE.

I say to some clients that you get to have 3 "unplanned" meals per week, so that includes skipped meals. so if you skip a meal, that's apart of the unplanned meal. if you have a cheat meal, that falls into your unplanned meals.

4.) YOU NEED TO TRAIN FUCKING HARD!

So I see you got some kinda split but like your nutrition you are not tracking it, so you never going to know where you are going. follow a set routine, 3-4 days a week, that contains MAINLY compound lifts, and 3 working sets per muscle group with ONLY 1 of those sets to failure and usually make it your last set of the exercise. your form and range of motion need to be perfect. eg for a squat, you should be able to go down slowly as possible and pause for a second then come up. Don't use sloppy form or half reps. when benching, that bar should touch your chest, when doing shoulder press, the bar should be in line with your chin. when doing lat pulldowns, the bar should hit the line of your shoulder blades.

you can do a full-body plan 3x a week, or a push/pull or upper-lower split for your training, make sure you are lifting hard and heavy, using FULL RANGE OF MOTION and focus on progressive overload.

so for an example bench press I see your max is 80kgs for 2 reps.
I would do something like this
Bar(20kgs) for 8 reps
bar plus a 10kg(40kgs) for 5 reps
bar plus a 15kgs(50kgs) for 2 reps
then start your working sets here. the rep range is in the 6-8 reps
bar plus a 20kg (60kgs) and you do your first set and you get 8 reps, you could do 10, but stop at 8, next set you do the same weight but now you get 7 reps, you could get 8, but anything past 8 would be not possible. then your last set you go as hard as you can and you are fatigued already and you end up pushing out 6 reps, and you couldn't get more.

so you have your 3 sets. 60kgs for 8,7,6. so now you know you need to try the next time to get 8,8,7 reps, then the next time 8,8,8 reps. well done you have hit your goal, not go up by 2.5kgs total weight and keep doing the same, say you add 10kgs to your bench every month for the next 6 months you will be hitting 120kg, is decent progression and you will be bigger and stronger.

5.) GET A LOGBOOK AND TRACK YOUR WORKOUTS AND NUTRITION

WRITE EVERYTHING DOWN! this is the most basic thing, you need to log your whole routine, from the exercises to the rest periods, to the weight used to the reps done, to the amount of sleep you got the night before and your daily nutrition.

for the whole of last year, bar 5 weeks before my show, I did upper-lower split, 4x a week, I logged every workout, I had 2 different workouts, the upper body a and b, and lower body a and b. The only changes I made in a space of 8 months is when I wasn't making progress on a certain exercise, I swapped it out. EG not making progress on incline smith press, I swapped it out for flat smith press. after not making progress on standing calve raises is swapped to toe press. 3 exercises changes in 8 months and still got stronger week on week, even it was just 1 rep or 1kg, that's what i did.

so i knew that over a period of time i would hack squat every Thursday for example, and i would push that exercise, making sure i got 1 more rep or 1 more kg, and i would only take my last set to failure.

6.)DONT BE A KNOB AND THINK REST IS NOT IMPORTANT.

why i say to you is train 4 days a week to start is because you will be hitting everybody part 2x a week, or if doing full body everybody part 3x a week. In order to grow muscle, you need to allow the muscle to repair and recover. now you can train more frequently when doing 1 body part a day. but if you, for example, do chest once a week with a bro split you hitting chest 52x in a year. if you do chest 2x a week on a push-pull you hitting it 104x a year. WHATS GOING TO MAKE YOU GROW MORE?

7.) DONT BE SCARED OF LOWER VOLUME

everyone freaks out when I say 3 sets, 1 exercise per muscle group 2x a week. have you ever gone to train chest and by the end of your bench session, you are too fucked to really do flys justice? yea that's cos you are now fatigued. rather focus on hitting that muscle as hard as you can in 1 exercise than 50% over 3 exercises. also by doing 1 exercise, you know you gotta put it all on the line in those 3 sets.

what you can do is do a progressive system with your volume
week 1: 2 working sets (1 to failure)
week 2: 3 working sets (1 to failure)
week 3: 4 working sets (1 to failure)
week 4: 2 working sets (1 to failure)
week 5: 3 working sets (1 to failure)
weel 6: 4 working sets (1 to failure)
week 7 OFF COMPLETELY.

8.) DO LITTLE TO NO CARDIO.

you are wanting to pick up muscle mass right now, so then focus on growing muscle. i have clients come to me and say i want to burn body fat but have minimal muscle, we then change their diet, focus on the principles i have shown to you above, and focused on getting stronger week on week. 16 weeks down the line the 1 client said to me but i came to lose weight, and i have only lost 3kgs. Then i did the photo comparisons and well he had probably gained about 10kgs of muscle mass and lost about 4kgs of fat, the recomposition was amazing.

9.) USE SUPPLEMENTS SPARINGLY.

whey protein is essential, creatine is essential, and i say glutamine is essential. use whey protein, 5g of creatine and 10g of glutamine with some fast-digesting carbs post work out. everyone says glutamine is a waste but on a low carb diet, 10g of glutamine has been shown to have the same results as 60g of fast-digesting carbs so why the hell not use it, and you get the immune health from it to. ZMA before bed, and 10mg of boron daily (boron has been known to lower SHBG levels and estrogen levels) you don't need any fancy pre-workouts at the moment, rather take the R300 for a pre-workout, and use it for steak. if you want decent supplements at a good price that is local, i suggest doorman nutrition. Yes i have a sponsor from them however i know the owner incredibly well and the quality is right up there and the price is decent, R700 for a 3kg tub of whey is great in this current economy. they do have an online store.

10.) TRACK YOUR PROGRESS

Take measurements once a week, take weight once a week, and take photos once a week. make sure your photos are at the same time of the day in the same place with the same lighting first thing in the morning.
eg 5 am in the morning, in the kitchen. do all of these first things in the morning after doing your morning routine, that way you have constant variables to work with eg lighting, no excess waste matter.

if you follow that plan and principles for 6 months, I can pretty much put my cock on the block to say you will probably be close to 80kgs and body fat will be lower, and muscle higher.

you don't need PEDS for at least a YEAR doing that. If in doubt hire a coach.

the client i was talking about, 19 years old. so very similar to where you are at except he was a bout 179cm

It’s so good to have you back on the forum bud, you bring an abundant wealth of knowledge that everyone can benefit from.

Pacho123 wrote: It’s so good to have you back on the forum bud, you bring an abundant wealth of knowledge that everyone can benefit from.

thanks man, are you an old user with a new username?

Empire wrote:

Pacho123 wrote: It’s so good to have you back on the forum bud, you bring an abundant wealth of knowledge that everyone can benefit from.

thanks man, are you an old user with a new username?

Didnt know untill now that you were DJ...great to see you back here and in good spirits.

Wayne wrote:

Empire wrote:

Pacho123 wrote: It’s so good to have you back on the forum bud, you bring an abundant wealth of knowledge that everyone can benefit from.

thanks man, are you an old user with a new username?

Didnt know untill now that you were DJ...great to see you back here and in good spirits.

Real slim shady is standing up

Empire wrote:

Pacho123 wrote: It’s so good to have you back on the forum bud, you bring an abundant wealth of knowledge that everyone can benefit from.

thanks man, are you an old user with a new username?

I’ve been a lurker up until recently, your posts when you had the username DJ are still legendary to this day

Pacho123 wrote:

Empire wrote:

Pacho123 wrote: It’s so good to have you back on the forum bud, you bring an abundant wealth of knowledge that everyone can benefit from.

thanks man, are you an old user with a new username?

I’ve been a lurker up until recently, your posts when you had the username DJ are still legendary to this day

KNOWLEDGE NEVER CHANGES. thanks for the compliment bud

@empire
thanks a lot for all the info, advice and guidance I really appreciate it. And your explanations make sense. It's clear you know what you're doing. I'll implement all of the tips to the best of my ability. Won't be able to drop volume a whole lot unfortunately during lockdown though as I don't have enough weight at home to strain my muscles without crazy volume . Looking forward to eating more, and will keep the sources as clean as possible, also will start tracking everything properly. Eager to get into the gym again. Will put the thought of testosterone usage to rest until I give this a solid, consistent go and see how it affects me and take it from there

higher frequency training you need to adjust the volume, otherwise, recovery is an absolute nightmare unless you are consuming 1000kcal over maintenance levels.


obviously we are in lockdown so it won't be easy to implement everything in the current climate.