Inside a man's mind: Deciding what's next

Hi guys,

My background: I have been training for about 12 years, consistently, in a variety of strength sports. All of my competing years (5) were done 'juiced', meaning the, mostly, 12-weeks-on-and-off-type of a deal. Though this was not always the case when competitions were close to each other. I won a few competitions but no national titles. My approach to cycling changed over the years from the normal 600mg test and 40mg dbol to test 300mg, tren 200mg, winstrol 40mg to eventually just sticking with test (75-150mg), injecting every other day (followed the advice of Ben Pollack). I also follow the advice of Taeian Clark but not precisely. This all worked pretty well; squat reached over 300 (with wraps). I was happy and then decided to take a break. The year after lockdown my job (back then) became uncomfortable and unsustainable. I decided to switch careers but my first job was also unsustainable. Now I have a better job and time to compete once more. However now after being off for 2 years I would like to think this through but also see what goes on in the minds of the community members when choosing this lifestyle. So let's start with this:

Everyone's input is welcome. I would like to discuss the use of anabolics for sport or lifestyle. The objective is to reach a conclusion on what morals or even if morals should be considered when deciding to use any anabolic synthetic hormone other than for medical purposes.

Outside perspectives and opinions from stereotypical, hypothetical persons will be used to start the argument or ignore the argument, this is not meant to be criticism of what the below groups actually think. Some of the below persons are made up and some are examples of arguments I've had with people or myself for or against or neither:

1. Doctor: There is a healthier way to use this but you are still playing with fire and we cannot promise that you will reach 80, though with regular exercise, a healthy diet and regular blood work we can make sure we keep your biomarkers within healthy ranges.
2. Christian 1: What you put in your body will not decide whether you receive eternal life or not, it will just hurry up or slow down the process of finding out.
3. Christian 2: If one does this for the sake of vanity it is sin, if this does not improve your life as well the lives of those around you then this is sin. Your purpose in life is to serve the Lord not your own selfish ambitions.
4. Atheist: Nothing you do matters to the universe though everything you do matters to you. If this serves your goal of becoming strong then you should do it as it's no different from making sacrifices for any other goal. Simply be sure that you are indeed following your goal of strength. If the goal is lifelong strength than perhaps this is a bad idea.
5. Mother: I want you to be healthy but also happy and live a life with purpose. I am not sure if this choice will give your life purpose for long enough.
6. Wife: I want to have kids and I want them to be healthy. For them to be healthy, you need to be healthy for long enough. I also don't want to be left alone, old and widowed if it can be helped.
7. Son: I want you to meet my kids one day.
8. Government 1: Do what you wish but do not get in our way.
9. Government 2: Our laws and guidelines are here for your safety and the greater good of humanity. The Bible even says you should listen to us.

Some of these arguments are purely emotional, silly, incomplete or may even contradict themselves. They are not meant to be perfect, please feel free to elaborate on them, counter them or dismiss them and make your own separate point.

Please understand that I am not looking for a specific type of answer, I do not have my own argument yet, I simply want to know what goes on the minds of the community. The title is "Inside a man's mind" since this is what some men may struggle with quite often; balancing your own goals and purpose with the expectations of family/friends/work.

Interesting.

My personal approach is based on what science is.

Government and any religious dogma (including even atheism) has no role in determining what one should do for health.

Another important aspect, is balancing longevity and performance/happiness.

We take risks everyday to look freaky, we are part of a community whereby very few people can understand why we do what we do.

The wife and kid argument is valid, we have loved ones, it is pointless to lose these relationships at the cost of what? Vanity? There is not enough money in the sport to justify abuse for financial gain. Actor or coach... maybe yes.

Overall, steroids pose risk, so does eating like shit and taking drugs to correct these symptoms - nobody is healthy, and taking steroids does not equate to lack of health.

We should aim to minimize drug use, and use effective and as safe as possible medications/drugs.

There is no free lunch in life. Steroids are heavily demonized and misunderstood.

We deserve support and access to care.

For me this is one of the most interesting topics we’ve had on the forum for a very long time. Maybe because I’ve been studying philosophy, religion and political ideologies for the last couple of years. I can write you a 1000-page book on this but have a time sensitive project to complete and I’m a bad writer so will spare you that for now.

I would like to point out that the label you assigned to the hypothetical argument from the atheist is not correct and that it is more the sort of argument an “individualist” would make. You get atheists that are individualists or collectivists and that goes for the doctor, Christian, mother, wife and son as well. Governments on the other hand are always collectivist in nature because governments only exist because collectivists created this superhuman, mythological (religious) entity to take care of their responsibilities by robbing and controlling everyone else in society in the hope that they would benefit and since they are not the ones doing these immoral things directly, they don’t have to feel bad about it. I dislike collectivists and I really dislike authoritarian collectivists.

Ideologically I’m an individualist anarchist or voluntarist to be exact, so I consider any authority that is gained through involuntary coercion and aggression to be illegitimate. In other words, government and its laws are immoral and illegitimate in my view because participation in their system is compulsory and violently enforced by gangsters in uniforms with badges and clowns in black dresses with wooden hammers. Since I consider all government laws to be illegitimate, I solely rely on my “moral compass” to determine what I consider to be righteous behaviour, and I turn to stoicism for guidance in this. Scenarios 8 and 9 are not even worth taking into consideration, they don't have your best interest at heart. Scenario 8 is a complete myth by the way, there has never been a government in existence that allows you to do as you wish. The entire purpose of government is to govern and own you as their slave, some governments are worse than others, but that is still their underlying purpose and goal.

To answer your question from stoic voluntarist’s perspective:
It is perfectly acceptable to use steroids if your use of them do not harm others or yourself. From the example scenarios you provide I only consider the one from the wife to be a legitimate consideration, because you have a responsibility to your wife and kids to provide for them and it is in your own best interest as well. Your body is a tool and like any tool it needs maintenance and care to stay functional and if steroids help you with this then it’s good. However, do not attach any happiness to your physique’s appearance, because it is not permanent or fully under your control because you’ll get older and frailer, or you could get injured or sick for example. Your happiness will be short lived if you do, this is a common mistake in the bodybuilding community. Only look for happiness in the things you control fully, which is your thoughts and actions.

NB: My opinion on individualism vs. collectivism is based on years of research and a deep understanding of the underlying ideologies and psychology involved and I have not provided the necessary foundation to explain why I say what I said, so if there is something that is unclear or disturbing let me know and I'll explain in more detail how I came to that conclusion. There's allot to gain from stoicism as well and it is worth looking into, it is not a religion so can be practised with almost any religious view you might have.

Thank you for the replies guys,

Time to include my personal beliefs and opinions as well:

A while back I decided to base my principles around Jesus and his way of life. Of course interpretation becomes an issue as it always does in religion or faith, hence I look to philosophy to explain modern problems and opportunities.
I have come to the conclusion that life is a series of decisions where one must pick your poison, and it is better to pick the poison you can deal with. So the argument that calls steroid use outright sin does not sit well with me because by that same logic macdonalds would be sin, so would any food, or thing for that matter, that you know isn't sustainable for your health. Though at the same time the argument may work since it points to vanity and I am not completely sure if I am above vanity. Also my comparison of steroids to macdonalds might be like comparing guns to knives.

I also do not care about the government argument since they lie a little bit too much. Their rules don't focus on actual health so when they say "don't eat/drink/take this" my first reaction is to disregard it until I have decided for myself.

On this: "To answer your question from stoic voluntarist’s perspective:
It is perfectly acceptable to use steroids if your use of them do not harm others or yourself. " from @admin

I agree, though in my experience, there seems to be no real way of knowing whether you are harming yourself or not. Take an example of a recent very young and internationally known german athlete that passed away, he was seeing doctors constantly, had procedures done that most can't afford and still it was not enough. Perhaps hormones are not to blame but there are too many unexpected deaths compared to groups of people where you would expect this like obese people or alcoholics. Perhaps someone can help me understand this situation better?


I guess it boils down to this: Which poison? The poison of using drugs to look/ feel and perform at a much higher level while healthy and then possibly suffer later while most are still healthy OR the poison of being physically average or just above average for the rest of your life, though it may be a slightly longer life where I may be able to have a wider variety of experiences in life (if I don't die in a car crash tomorrow)

Wow this was a great read !

Enjoyed reading through this and getting an idea of where you’re at.

I think many of us wrestle with the “why am I doing this” at some time or another, and all the questions that follow it of course.

Like some others have mentioned steroids are demonised most likely because of the cases of abuse the media likes to show.

In reality there’s a safe way to use them. Of course they still come with risks, everything does, but I believe the reward is greater.

Millions of people drink, smoke and eat themselves silly without a thought of the impact it will have on their well being. Driving a nice car in SA is a huge risk and driving it FAST is another.

The fact that you’re sitting down, taking time to reflect on these things is what’s important and shows what kind of person you are and that you have good intentions.

If you do come to the conclusion that you should use them, I think you owe it to your wife and family to do it in the safest way possible.

I’ve just got back into working out. I took a 10 year break. My life lacked balance and I felt like my lifestyle and ego needed to change. I didn’t enjoy the person I was. Made some necessary changes, I’m similar to you in that I sit down often and reflect. I want to be better in every way, not just my physique but inside as well.

I feel like now, in my 30’s, 2 kids, solid job. I have found a form of balance. I’ve found self confidence without the bodybuilder physique. So I’m slowly getting back into the swing of things and I fully intend on taking steroids again without any guilt.