Here is a basic explanation of the difference on the igf analogs
LR3 has a much longer half life than DES.
So far I'm far more impressed with the DES than LR3.
You can pin DES either Pre workout or post-this is my first time with DES so am trying it preworkout. On my next run I'll give post workout a roll and see if there's a difference.
Needs to be pinned very close to workout-within 15minutes either before or after depending on the way you're running it due to the short half life.
"DES (1-3) IGF-1 (NOT THE SAME AS IGF-1)
Most athletes have heard of IGF-1 (Insulin like growth factor-1) and the amazing anabolic effects it has been reported to have upon protein based tissue such as muscle. Des (1-3) IGF-1 is over 10 times (1000%) more anabolic than IGF-1. Now that is amazing!!
IGF-1 is actually produced from both Insulin and growth hormone in the liver and other tissues. IGF-1 is made up of 70 amino acids in a chain. Well, when a clever chemist removes the last 3 amino acids in the IGF-1 chain (the N-terminal tri-peptide) it becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 and 1000% plus more anabolic. Why? IGF-1 circulates through our blood stream and tissue 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Unfortunately, most of the IGF-1 is inactive because it is bound by another protein called (get this) IGF-1 Binding protein-3, or IGF-1-BP-3 for short. Since bound hormones can not fit into and trigger a receptor-site, the majority of circulating and muscle IGF-1 can not trigger an anabolic stimulus. Like tons of cellulite in a porno movie (who watches those?) there is little good stuff happening. However, when IGF-1 is altered and becomes Des (1-3) IGF-1 the binding protein IGF-1-BP-3 can not bind to it and it is totally active. Another reason Des (1-3) IGF-1 is so potent is its unique ability to fit into lactic acid altered IGF-1 receptor sites. (YUP) When we train we burn carbohydrates as a fuel to make cellular ATP. When cells switch to this ATP pathway, the by-product is Lactic Acid. This is of course the cause of most of the burn we feel during intense or higher rep sets. Well, the lactic acid build-up is called acidosis, and it destroys the shape of some receptor-sites for period of time. Therefore some anabolic/anti-catabolic hormones have difficulty merging with their respective receptor- site and triggering a response (such as even unbound IGF-1). Not so with Des (1-3) IGF- 1, the super growth factor. It fits into the IGF-1 receptor-site even after acidosis. Des (1- 3) IGF-1 is unbound, over 10 times more potent than IGF-1, and it picks receptor-site locks. Too bad it has only a few minute active-life.
Did you know that our body's make Des (1-3) IGF-1 naturally? Most un-informed individuals claim other wise, but it is true. When an athlete trains lactic acid builds up in muscle tissue. As we know, there is always IGF-1 / GH present in the blood stream and tissues (including muscle) from prior work-outs and other metabolic factors. That lactic acid burn triggers IGF-1/GH secretion from both prior and present work-outs. Unfortunately, lactic acid destroys some of the IGF-1 present in muscles being trained. But wait, this is good too!
Lactic acid also cuts (truncates) the last 3 amino acids off the 70 amino acid chain of "some" of the surviving IGF-1 and creates Des (I-3) IGF-1. So acidosis increases GH/IGF-1 production in the liver, "unbinds" IGF-1 locally in the muscle being trained (burned), destroys some of the IGF-1, and converts some IGF-1 into Des (I-3) IGF-1. Huh, good deal. And the synthetic form of this super anabolic stuff is beginning to show up on the black market more frequently."
IGF-2 LR3
This one is kind of obscure. But, from what I can gather about it it is a hormone that is present during gestation. It has a 67 amino acid sequence (like DES (1-3) IGF-1). It is said to do the same thing as IGF-1 LR3, but faster. Well, if that refers to hyperplasia then I'd agree that, at least on paper, this should be much faster! I mean, it actually is a substance produced in the body whereas 1-LR3 isn't even bio-available for what we want it for (83 amino acid chain remember, doesn't "fit" in the receptor!).
It is said to have a synergistic effect when combined with 1-LR3. But, my instincts would say to combine it with DES for better results. The idea being that, just like a lot of GH peptides, combining a good IGF-1 with a good IGF-2 has a synergistic effect where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. i.e. if you took igf-1 alone it'd do x amount of what you want, same with igf-2, but combine them and the results are multiplied supposedly. Again, I'd (and will) go with DES (1-3) IGF-1 when combining with IGF-2 Lr3 rather than combining it with IGF-1 LR3 for reasons stated before.
Putting it all together, what's the best protocol?
Obviously I'm taking a bit of a stab in the dark at what the optimal igf protocol might be at this time. But, it is an educated guess.
First of all, I want to clarify a few myths:
1) It's the fact that IGF-1 LR3 is "long acting" that makes it not as good for site-enhancement/hyperplasia. That's what makes it a "systemic" igf vs a "local" site-enhancement drug.
Wrong. While it is longer acting than original rIGF-1, it is the fact that it is an 83 amino acid sequence that causes it not to work for our purposes. It basically (and yes, I'm waaay over-simplifying it, that's what I do!) doesn't "fit" in the receptor site! It still has insulin-like properties. And, for those that have used it and other variants you'll see that it actually has the most insulin-like properties of any of them. My theory is specifically because it doesn't get used any other way! It isn't metabolised/broken down like normal igf-1 and it can be used by the muscle the same way. What's left? Yep, systemic, insulin-like effects similar to low-moderately dosed humalog or humalin-r. That doesn't make it worthless, just over-priced for it's actually benefits.
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