Post PCT Test levels

Hi,

Being my first Test cycle, I did a smaller version (with good results) of the beginners bulking cycle:
wk1-10: 20mg dbol
wk1-10: 250mg test cyp
wk1-10: 250mg winny

Ran PCT immediately thereafter:
x25 Proviron
x10 Clomid
x30 nolvadex
Biogen Natual test booster
(HCG wasn't suggested, probably because of the low test dosage)

My test levels have been OK while on PCT (same as on a previous pct cycle) but has taken a complete dip since I've finshed the last of the Nolvadex about 10 days ago. My tool aint responding at all, and if it does, not enough to perform.

My supplier/dietician/bodybuilder is against me doing another PCT cycle, and says that I should wait another 3 weeks for test levels to normalise. He's suggesting that it's more of a mental issue and that stressing about it is contributing to the problem. I should increase my Biogen test booster dosage, relax and be abit more patient, he says.

What do you guys thinks? My understanding was that after PCT everything should be back to normal.
Am I being too impatient, or could something be wrong? Any advise for the way forward would be great.

Thanks

(PS: I know my cycle/pct are not as per recommended on this site, which is only now causing me to question my cycle advisers :ohmy:, which you guys will prbably agree with )

I know some guys on the site who have quite good experience with AAS have followed Doc's PCT protocol, twice over even, and have recovered very well.

Maybe get your hands on some hCG, Nolva, Clomid and Aromasin and try it. All the best bro, let us know how things go.

Try clomid 50mg EOD or even 50mg biweekly. There is a thread on this so just search a bit...

All the best...

Proviron is a steroid and should not be run in your PCT.

I wouldn't have run proviron in your PCT. It is very mild and does have anti-estrogenic properties but it is still a steroid and will inhibit a full HPTA recovery as it could cause possible shutdown. For your next PCT just stick with the regular Nolva/clomid combo and HCG if needed.

Your test levels have dropped because your estrogen levels have inceased after stopping the nolva. As soon as you stop an anti-estrogen there is a bit of a estrogen rebound which will cause a drop in test levels because estrogen and testosterone levels are closely linked to one another and the body will try maintain homeostasis (normalizing of hormone levels by adjusting one to effect another).

You probably should have carried on with nolva for another week or two (possibly at a lower dose to taper off). It has already been 10days so rather not go back on anti-estrogens. One option could be to have a shot of HCG to possibly boost your natural test a bit....

Kick your supplier/dietitian/bodybuilder in the nuts,he doesn't know what he is doing.u need to just redo a pct of clomid followed by kessar,will make a big difference.

I'm getting different advice, and want to make sure I'm doing right his time.

@ Stuartf,
Thanks

@DJ
Is this the alternative to the HCG shot

Do you think waiting it out (for how long though?), doing nothing and taking a test booster will solve the problem?

Also, a buddy suggested taking viagra until test levels normalise!

I think Viagra will just be masking the problem. Your test levels are low so you not gonna even feel like pomping...

I would take a shot of HCG and see what happens. If nothing then redo your PCT properly.

10 days after your PCT is too soon to do a blood test and expect things to be completely back to normal bud. These things can take time. Post your test results.

Also, for next time... Make sure you start your PCT at the right time and not STRAIGHT after a test cycle... Each test has its own half life, which you need to check in order to plan your pct.

The person giving you advice doesnt really understand enough about PCT... Kick him in the balls so his doesnt work either!

i also noted your pct started straight after your cycle without a bridge/waiting period, which could of also effected your recovery,

i agree with muscle addict and dj, its too soon for tests to be done and expect a full recovery, but also look at redoing your pct

Had a chat with my supplier regarding everyone's comments and he still feels that running the PCT immediately after the cycle has worked for his colleagues and customers, as it avoids the sudden dip in test levels, until the PCT starts.

Is it possible that different PCT cycles work for different people?

He did admit that there was no way of knowing whether or not the HCG would be necessary, and will suggest possibly doing a 2 week HCG only cycle, injecting every 3rd day (I think he said). He's not happy with me be doing another clomid/nolvadex at this point as he's confident that the initial PCT has done it's thing.

Please tell me there is some logic to his thinking?

Also, wife feels I've done enough damage and should rather wait for levels to normalise by itself. Should I consider the lady's advice

there is no way i will take someone elses advise over Admin and OOpumps, the wait before pct was worked out exactly to ther tee by doctari if you want to go ahead and belive someone that supplies you over the above mentioned names go for it but dont come cry here when things turn out bad.

GregB1 wrote: there is no way i will take someone elses advise over Admin and OOpumps, the wait before pct was worked out exactly to ther tee by doctari if you want to go ahead and belive someone that supplies you over the above mentioned names go for it but dont come cry here when things turn out bad.

Straight and to the point. Thanks GregB1

Is your supplier by any chance that big guy at the gym that knows everything? There is a very good reason why we have that wait until you start your PCT bro!

beemer wrote:

GregB1 wrote: there is no way i will take someone elses advise over Admin and OOpumps, the wait before pct was worked out exactly to ther tee by doctari if you want to go ahead and belive someone that supplies you over the above mentioned names go for it but dont come cry here when things turn out bad.

Straight and to the point. Thanks GregB1

Sorry if my post seemed harsh it was intended in a good way

WTF! You actually did started PCT the day after your last shot? :blink: Your dealer is a special kind of stupid! Buddy why come on this forum and ask for advice if you won't even follow the most simple basics when coming to doing AAS? Doing Clomid/Nolva straight after your last injection will be 100% useless until your testosterone levels drop to the normal range for men. Your pituitary gland will not produce enough LH to properly start your natural testosterone production until this happens. This is why we wait before PCT.

Your dealer's not happy with you "doing another clomid/nolvadex at this point as he is confident that the initial PCT has done it's thing"?? ----> F*UCK him! He's a chop who should join the forum to educate himself

You really should redo PCT.

Muscleaddict wrote: WTF! You actually did started PCT the day after your last shot? :blink: Your dealer is a special kind of stupid! Buddy why come on this forum and ask for advice if you won't even follow the most simple basics when coming to doing AAS? Doing Clomid/Nolva straight after your last injection will be 100% useless until your testosterone levels drop to the normal range for men. Your pituitary gland will not produce enough LH to properly start your natural testosterone production until this happens. This is why we wait before PCT.

Your dealer's not happy with you "doing another clomid/nolvadex at this point as he is confident that the initial PCT has done it's thing"?? ----> F*UCK him! He's a chop who should join the forum to educate himself

You really should redo PCT.

And i thought i was being a little harsh, lol. :lol:

GregB1 wrote: And i thought i was being a little harsh, lol. :lol:

Tough love

Pyroclasm wrote: Is your supplier by any chance that big guy at the gym that knows everything? There is a very good reason why we have that wait until you start your PCT bro!

lol. He's reliable, supplies quality products and has been advising me for about 3 years now - eating, training and from last year, roids.

The Cape Town guys will know who I'm talking about if I mention his name or a hint thereof. He's a great guy, and has competed once or twice. I'm therefore very surprised that there is a difference in opinion - I thought all you big guys follow the same protocol

I've experienced his PCT advise and be following doctari's next time. But first I need to get my levels back to normal.

@GregB1 - no apology needed. It was taken in the correct light.

DJ gave you some good advice on what to do i reccomend you listen to him bud.

Do clomid 100mg for 7 days and then nolva 20mg for 30 days.

OR

Do clomid 50mg eod.


Option 1 is best.

Get some zma too help the libido

Maybe my response was a bit OTT but I believe that if someone decides to sell steroids and advise people how to use them, then they have a responsibility to at least know the basics of why PCT should be done a certain way. Otherwise you're just adding to everything else that gives AAS a bad rep. Giving bad advice could potentially have long term irreversible consequences and as a supplier you hold the health of your customers who trust your advice in the palm of your hand.

Luckily we have this forum!

beemer wrote: Had a chat with my supplier regarding everyone's comments and he still feels that running the PCT immediately after the cycle has worked for his colleagues and customers, as it avoids the sudden dip in test levels, until the PCT starts.

Sudden drop? Most of the longer esters stick around for many weeks, which is the reason for the delay. The oil forms a deposit in your muscle, from which the active ingredient is slowly released into your blood over many days. That's also why you don't see results a few minutes after your very first shot.

Read DJ's sticky on the subject: www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/5-post-...p-and-pct-start-time

This guy can't be that famous/good if he doesn't even know the waiting protocol for PCT? Beemer you are a very clever guy so I am struggling to understand your logic. You have the best source of information on AAS at your disposal yet you would listen to your dealer because people know him. Why not even run everything he says past us to atleast make sure he is correct?