so im doing some research to get as much knowledge as i can on pct as mine is coming up soon. found a lot of crap out there however the author of this one makes a bit of sense of things. please post up your opinions regarding it. not looking to get flamed for not following the pct articles and protocols here. i just want to grow my knowledge and get an understanding /your opionion of do you think below can work or not. my concern upfront is the dose of hcg causing desensitization of leydig cells. what do you think?
thanks
"PCT start times
Anadrol/Anapolan: 24 hours after last administration
Deca: 21 days after last injection
Dianabol: 24 hours after last administration
Equipoise: 21 days after last injection
Fina: 3 days after last injection
Primobolan depot: 14 days after last injection
Sustanon: 18 days after last injection
Testosterone Cypionate: 18 days after last injection
Testosterone Enanthate: 14 days after last injection
Testosterone Propionate: 3 days after last injection
Testosterone Suspension: 24 hours after last administration
Winstrol: 24 hours after last administration
THE FOLLOWING ARTICAL BORROWED FROM ITS AUTHOR CORNISH CELT
Understanding PCT
PCT, what does it mean?
Post Cycle Therapy.
What does it do?
It returns your Hypothalamus, Pituitary, Testicular, Axis (HPTA) back to producing its own endogenous testosterone production.
How long does it last?
Good question but in my opinion the normal 21 to 30 days protocol is too short unless suppression of the HPTA is minor.
Ok, you produce about 7 mg of testosterone a day or around 49 mg a week on average, some more, some less (usually older guys).
So, you go on a cycle of lets say 500mg of testosterone a week or about 10 times your natural production. The body sees this as too much testosterone and will lower production of testosterone to try to maintain homeostasis (balance). The body loves homeostasis.
Testosterone in a man gets converted into two other hormones; one of those hormones is DHT (dihydrotestosterone) this is done by an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductace. DHT is actually about 3-5 times more androgenic than testosterone.
The other hormone it gets converted to is estradiol (E2), this is a strong estrogen but from now on we will just refer to it as estrogen, even though there are 3 different kinds of estrogen. Testosterone gets converted into estrogen by another enzyme called aromatase. The conversion is called aromatization.
Ok, the body will convert more testosterone into estrogen probably to try and maintain homeostasis, so the more test, the more estrogen. For most this estrogen is not a problem. But for some it will be a problem and this extra estrogen can give side effects like gynecomastia (gyno) or water retention, but one big problem is estrogens suppressive effects on Luteinizing Hormone or (LH) LH is what the pituitary gland sends as a chemical hormone to the Leydig cells in the testicles where the testicles will product testosterone. Estrogen is probably 100-200 times as suppressive as testosterone.
So when LH production stops (exogenous testosterone will do this too) the testicles will stop producing and like anything not being used will atrophy.
What does this mean?
You will get some small balls, no kidding mine have been the size of almonds without the shell.
OK, so you come off a cycle, the exogenous testosterone is tapering down and after about a couple of weeks (this is the clearance time for testosterone cypionate and enanthate) you end up with low levels of testosterone as your endogenous production has long been stopped. Now here where the problem starts. You potentially have the testosterone of a woman, and high estrogen from all that aromatization.
This can be a recipe for disaster, why? Because men need test to feel normal and not only that hard earned muscle will be eaten up by being in a catabolic environment, not to mention there is still going to be some suppression because of elevated estrogen.
I have seen big strong men carry on like crying women in this state; it is very bad, sex drive is zero, no energy, emotional, insecure, the list is long.
So, what can you do?
First of all in my opinion bringing the nuts back online is very important, the most important. This is done with the use of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG)
It basically is pregnant woman’s urine. HCG mimics LH and as we learned above that LH is the chemical hormone that stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. HCG is very strong and many times stronger than the amount of LH that the pituitary puts out.
The typical dose is anywhere around 350iu to as much as 2500iu and even in some cases more but I don’t recommend this. Best advice is to use as little as possible to achieve success at bringing the nuts back to life from their nice little vacation.
The half life of HCG is around 3 days or so, so Subcutaneous (Sub-Q) shots or Intramuscular Shots (IM) are done about Every Other Day (EOD or Every 3 Days (E3D).
If you use too much for too long desentization of the Leydig cells can happen and this is not good.
One other thing is HCG aromatizes pretty heavily. So an anti estrogen is always recommended if you shoot more than 500iu and even that if you are gyno prone would be a good idea to add an anti E.
HCG comes in tow bottles or vials and one is powder and the other is a solvent or bacteriostatic water, the water gets added to the powder and this is called reconstitution. Once HCG is mixed it must be refrigerated. In bacteriostatic water it will last around a month.
Now next we want to block the hypothalamus and pituitary gland from that excess estrogen as that in itself is suppressive.
How is this done? With a drug called Clomiphene citrate (clomid). This is really a drug to help women ovulate but it acts as a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).
It occupy’s the estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and pituitary and blocks estrogens exertion on those glands. It’s like putting a key in a lock but not turning the key. It is just occupying that space without really doing anything.
Clomid in my opinion works better than another SERM that many people use called Nolvadex. Both pretty much do the same thing but together I have found to be far superior than using any of them by themselves.
Clomid is used to test the pituitary for secondary hypogonadism, clomid @ 100mg a day after 5 to 7 days will double LH responce and increase FSH by 20% to 50%, that is huge.
Both clomid and nolva are in pill form as well as liquid form.
What these do is block estrogen. The body sees this as it is low in testosterone and estrogens suppressive effects are not there as the receptors are blocked. So it see’s this as low testosterone and low estrogen so the body turns on the hypothalamus to produce Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GnRH) which in turn tells the pituitary gland to produce LH and FSH (follicle stimulating hormone). FSH is another hormone that stimulates the Sertoli cells in the testicles to produce sperm.
Ok, so lets put this all together.
There are a couple of ways you can do this.
First you can take HCG in small amounts during the cycle to maintain testicular function or you can take it after the cycle is finished to start your PCT.
Either way is fine but if the cycle is very long then long use of HCG can be a problem due to the possibility of desentization of the Leydig cells.
That’s pretty much the last thing you want to do as you want your own LH production to keep the testicles producing test.
So, what you can do is wait about 2 weeks for the testosterone to clear your system or be around base levels of normal producing test and start your HCG, clomid and nolvadex all at the same time.
You don’t have to worry about the aromatization issue because both clomid and nolvadex are anti-estrogens or act as anti-estrogens in the body.
By the way nolvadex is used in estrogen sensitive cancer tissues like in treating breast cancer.
I take clomid at 50mg twice a day (12hrs apart) for 30 days.
I take nolvadex at 20 mg a day for 45 days.
I take anywhere from 1000iu EOD to 2500 EOD for 8 shots (16 days).
So the HCG is taking care of the nuts and taking them off vacation and putting them back to work and the nolvadex and clomid will help the hypothalamus produce GnRH which will tell the pituitary to produce LH and FSH.
Once the testicles are producing test on their own you stop the administration of HCG and let the body take over, kind of like handing a baton when doing a relay race.
Depending on the type of gear, length of time on, amount of gear, all play in this factor of recovery, not to mention the genetic factors involved in shutdown.
I shutdown very hard and I notice atrophy in as little as 3 weeks.
If anyone has any questions or wants to fill in some spaces just let me know.
Cheers. "
__________________
Here is the Doc's protocol for HPTA recovery.
I talked to the doc today on the phone and he answered many questions for me in regards to recovery of the HPTA.
For those of you who don’t know what that is it is “Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis”
After administration of AAS, you have shutdown of the HPTA. Depending on the meds taken shutdown can be severe and much does depend on the person as well.
This is the protocol the doc said he used in literally thousands of users with suppressed HPTA.
First thing, the 500iu a day was not enough to make the testicles do their job, he suggested this was just a waste of time and money.
He suggests 8 shots of HCG @ 2500iu EOD.
With this you take 20 mg of nolvadex for 45 days.
Clomid is also taken but twice a day @ 50mg each dose 12 hours apart.
The reason for the amounts of HCG (which is the most important part, if the balls don’t fire everything else is worthless), is based on his determination to bring the balls back to life, too little wont accomplish this, too much risks damage to the Leydig cells.
So he basically was saying that you do the HCG and around day 10 of the above protocol, you should get a blood test for testosterone. If it is above 400 or greater then this says the balls will be just fine once you get off the HCG and the Clomid and nolva take over. This will accept the LH that you are putting out to maintain testicular function.
He used the term like jumping a car. Your battery (Pituitary gland) if low wont start your car (your testicles), if you use another car and jumper cables (HCG) once the car starts your battery (HP part of the HPTA) will keep your car running.
The clomid by itself he suggested can inhibit either the pituitary or the hypothalamus (can’t remember which one) but if taken with nolva this blocks the estrogen receptors so you wont inhibit that.
So clomid in his protocol is always taken with nolvadex ALWAYS.
He did mention that sometimes the balls just don’t take and then you do the protocol again. He said it was rare that he could not fire up the HPTA.
He said that beings that I have good size difference (balls), feel good, strength gains, and a greasy face he felt I should have no problems with returning the HPTA.
Some things he said was tribulis was actually inhibitory on the HPTA, great I wish I found that out after I bought two bottles.
ZMA, he said if it made me feel good then go for it but it is placebo and the HCG, clomid, nolva was it and all that is needed.
Talked to him about progesterone and he said never take that if you are a man (the last doc prescribed it to me)
Sorry aftershock, I forgot to ask him about the GH question he was saying so much I was just trying to listen.
One thing he did mention (in an article) was that HGH actually helped with the testicular recovery with things and adding that to the Protocol is a good idea and productive.
Avoid aspirin when on HCG as it kind of ruins the effects.
He said oxandrolone was suppressive on the HPTA, but Deca and Anadrol were probably the worst in his opinion. I asked him about tren but he had no knowledge as he never used it.
He did mention that test in itself was not all that suppressive and he has seen guys on 18 months that came off and made a full recovery in 45 days with the above protocol.
He said one of the best ways was 12 weeks of test, followed by the above protocol, then start another 12 weeks followed by the above protocol with a month off after that then start again.
He did say that desensitization to HCG took around 2 months, and the dose of 2500 was fine and no damage or desensitization would occur if you followed his protocol.
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