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MPhilosopher wrote: If you have symptoms of low T, ask your doc to test for anything that could be the culprit - hemochromatosis or any other issue.
Otherwise, there are other pharmaceuticals that can be used to increase T, but you are likely better off doing TRT.
Also, why are you on a carnivore diet? High fat diet will be beneficial for hormones, but that's not to say carbs are useless. Insulin spikes with carbs can free up more T by lowering SHBG, otherwise you could use some DHT derivative or "pure" DHT to do this if necessary.
If fertility is an issue, I am sure others will help you in this forum. I would assume some sort of adjunctive HCG therapy along with your TRT.
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MPhilosopher wrote: Since fertility is not an issue, TRT is a very good option to have, should there be no other underlying issue causing the low T.
I am not sure what your doctor checked, could be a pituitary issue.
Ketosis is irrelevant, even when following low carb periods. If you ever plan on reintroducing plant matter or anything else, carnivore will fail you in the long term and you could easily develop negative responses to any other food once you reintroduce it. I would think about using some avocado or any vegetable you feel you tolerate well and slowly build up.
PS I am a big fan of red meat, so it isn't the issue of red meat, rather the restrictive nature you end up paying for long term
EDIT: Yes your T looks low. If you have symptoms of low T and your levels are what you posted AND your doc is against putting you on TRT altogether.. find a new doc
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f your test levels are low your SHBG levels are high, this could be potentially due to your keto dieting, I have written a prior response to someone on the forum here, so excuse me if I paraphrase for this example.
think of basic human survival in cave man-day, when food is low(winter months) the hunters would become lethargic and do not much hunting and working as they are there to survive, and that is generally because fruit and carbs and excess of fatty meat wasn't available (winter and snow would make animals scarce, and fruit would die in the cold) so what would happen is your their hormone levels would drop, just to maintain basic survival. so if you are trying to survive and you are barely eating enough to do so, testosterone levels would diminish, thyroid levels would diminish as the body is trying to conserve as much energy as possible.
However, Come to the change of seasons, food would become more plentiful so when eating in abundance again would bring the body out of survival mode, and start becoming fully nourished again. now when foods are higher, especially based carbohydrate foods, insulin is secreted, and we know that higher levels of insulin have been known to lower SHBG. So here comes the logical thinking of this point... When food is higher, and your body is fully nourished, your hormones come right, and when in summer that is MATING season, so when that happens and hormones are at their highest, the FRUIT OF THE LOINS is more desirable.
But, I see you have said you have done a keto cut, and I am assuming that you did the traditional keto type of cut where you didnt really do any carb ups or if so, very minimal.
The benefit of the ketogenic diet is that insulin is low, and the growth hormone is high, and testosterone can be elevated. However, you do this a long enough time, and there are adaptions to the metabolism. Thyroid levels start to drop as most people are scared to bump up calories to where they need to be from time to time. This is why carbohydrate spiking in a keto diet to me, is incredibly important. Now with insulin levels being elevated during these carb up periods, as from above, SHBG levels will decrease, allowing for testosterone levels to be spiked higher, etc. We all know that higher testosterone combined with higher insulin levels is a magical response for gaining muscle, but if you aren't depleted enough, gaining fat too.
Back to the example of if your calories are too low during a cut and with traditional Keto dieting.
Look at anorexic women and highly undernourished women for that matter, the first thing they lose is their period, as their reproductive system shuts down as they aren't eating enough food to survive themselves, how are they supposed to support growing a human inside of them when caloric needs would be even higher than normal. Same thing here, when not eating enough your hormone levels are going to plummet. Anyone who has been through a drastic contest prep diet/Cut will attest to at about 8 weeks out, www.youporn.com goes out the window and you tend to go to www.foodporn.com .
remember the body is designed to survive. When food is low, your body wants to hold on to as much stored energy as possible (body fat) so what it does it starts lowering your energy so that you burn less, and store more for the long term survival. so how does it lower your energy requirements?
Well, thyroid levels decrease and you become lethargic. Your body starts to sacrifice muscle, as the more muscle you have the more energy you burn and that's a no-no at this stage! So body also shuts down the reproductive system lowering testosterone, so that you can survive, not procreate, as well as be energetic when it comes to combat. So looking at survival, your body may need 2000 cals to Survive, and you may need 2800 to MAINTAIN healthy hormone function so your 2300 calories are enough to survive and still keep hormones functioning for a period of time before leptin drops and your body realizes you aren't taking in that maintenance calorie level, or even over nourishing the body to keep your body thinking of the summer months like in the caveman days.
So the standard diet these days for people is a HIGH protein, Low fat, and high carbs as a rule, however I see some retardedly low amounts of saturated fats on most people that fuck with healthy endocrine function as I stated for your Mrs above.
So for me, my suggestion would be to sort out your diet, that they is between 25% and 30% fat intake in your diet, your protein is at about 1.25g per LB(2,5g/KG) of LEAN BODY MASS. Fill the balance of calories with carbs.
Your diet should be at about 100 calories more than maintenance at the current level to allow for your body to be SLIGHTLY overnourished.
As From above, you want to use some adaptogens to aid and assist you with what you want to do.
Ashwagandha at 300mg 2x daily. Studies have shown that Ashwagandha can raises testosterone levels and lower cortisol levels.
Boron at 10mg a day have had some studies say it will lower SHBG and estrogen, and some studies that have said it isn't the case, for the cost? throw it in, rather be sorted than not.
Tribulis at 500mg/1000mg a day. Old school sexual stimulant, and if you dont want to BANG then you arent going to have kids. Just saying, its apart of the process...thank me later
Mucana Puriens has been to raise dopamine levels and lower progesterone levels which can also raise the feel-good hormones and help balance any hormone imbalances there are.
Staminogro has an insane profile for helping with fertility, you will need to pay with your 3rd unborn child for it, but it is great.
3 other things that I didn't mention: ZINC, MAGNESIUM, CBD
Zinc is known to be deficient in many people, and aids with many metabolic functions.
Magnesium lowers inflammation, and aids with healthy hormone function, and improves insulin sensitivity.
CBD has also been known to lower inflammation, cortisol, and many other cognitive functions too.
This is a shameless plug for a mate of mines product here, but Wild Leaf Infusions make a CBD HOT COCOA, that is infused with Magnesium, Zinc, AND 20mg Of CBD per serving. That combined with a simple sugar that will spike insulin somewhat and aid you with sleep, it is the perfect product for assisting you with what you are going through. It's not badly priced in comparison to most other CBD products, most 200mg tinctures are going to cost you R400 roughly, so this container has 200mg total for R229.95 as it is locally manufactured, can get from www.wildleafinfusions.com
limiting training to 4 days a week will let you recover Better, less inflammation, still allow for you to gain muscle, and have time with family. I don't know if you are currently training in a gym set up due to this POES lockdown but if you are then awesome!
anyway, sorry I didn't get to a full response here yesterday. I am making assumptions of what you are dealing with, and I am shooting in the dark big time, but hey, don't know if you don't try, and gotta try and pull that shotgun approach and hit every topic possible.
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Bench86 wrote: Thanks 00pump.
Would PCT2 not be sufficient? Or would adding Aromasin have benefit for me? I thought of PCT2 because I am not coming off a cycle.
Would admin be able to refer me to Doctori? Will look into the longifolia, however fertility doesn't seem to be an issue.
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Empire wrote: for you i would figure out your calorie intake currently, i would then split that up 2.5g of protein per Kg of body weight, and 30 to 35% of your calories from fats and then the balance from carbs, work your way up to maintenance level calories over a period of 5 to 6 week to limit fat gain.
i recon pulling up that calorie intake would be a great idea, then adding in some of the herbals i suggested. you can run tamoxifen(Nolvadex) at 20mg a day for 30 days, which will probably help with boosting your levels up too.
as I explained in the previous post of mine, sub maintenance level calories will cause adaptions in the body, but you probably have found that your diet hasn't been on par with what it should be. also how often are you doing your strength training? and how long is each session etc?
there are quite a few times that I see people start to loose weight when they increase their daily calories as this sparks metabolic rate but in the case of many people, more calories make them satiated more so they are less likely to overeat calories when satisfied.
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00pump wrote:
Bench86 wrote: Thanks 00pump.
Would PCT2 not be sufficient? Or would adding Aromasin have benefit for me? I thought of PCT2 because I am not coming off a cycle.
Would admin be able to refer me to Doctori? Will look into the longifolia, however fertility doesn't seem to be an issue.
PCT 3 because you are targeting recovery from 3 different mechanism of action. HCG, Aromasin and Nolva. PCT 3 has nothing to do with coming off a cycle, it's got to do with trying to recovery your testosterone levels as best you can. I don't see why you would need to contact him seeing his protocol is available right here for you.
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Bench86 wrote: Ah ok, got you. Are there any safety concerns by using two AI's simultaneously? Can estrogen levels drop too low? Would you recommend I do bloods again while on the protocol to assess?
Thanks for the info.
00pump wrote:
Bench86 wrote: Thanks 00pump.
Would PCT2 not be sufficient? Or would adding Aromasin have benefit for me? I thought of PCT2 because I am not coming off a cycle.
Would admin be able to refer me to Doctori? Will look into the longifolia, however fertility doesn't seem to be an issue.
PCT 3 because you are targeting recovery from 3 different mechanism of action. HCG, Aromasin and Nolva. PCT 3 has nothing to do with coming off a cycle, it's got to do with trying to recovery your testosterone levels as best you can. I don't see why you would need to contact him seeing his protocol is available right here for you.
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Mr Z wrote: What about giving a 100mcg shot of triptorelin as it directly stimulates LH and FSH before adding the clomid and nolva to maintain it?
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Mr Z wrote: What about giving a 100mcg shot of triptorelin as it directly stimulates LH and FSH before adding the clomid and nolva to maintain it?
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Yeah at a high dose it does. Maybe a combination of hcg and hmg ? The one mimics LH while the other mimics FSH but triptorelin stimulates both directly at a small 100mcg dose then after that do the standard clomid and nolva. That's just one of the methods out there but the experts know better. Micro nutrients associated with healthy test levels like selenium, zinc, carnitine etc you could also tryBench86 wrote:
Mr Z wrote: What about giving a 100mcg shot of triptorelin as it directly stimulates LH and FSH before adding the clomid and nolva to maintain it?
Looked this up and it states triptorelin actually decreases natural testosterone? It's used for prostate cancer to slow the growth as the cancer needs test to grow?
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Mr Z wrote:
Yeah at a high dose it does. Maybe a combination of hcg and hmg ? The one mimics LH while the other mimics FSH but triptorelin stimulates both directly at a small 100mcg dose then after that do the standard clomid and nolva. That's just one of the methods out there but the experts know better. Micro nutrients associated with healthy test levels like selenium, zinc, carnitine etc you could also tryBench86 wrote:
Mr Z wrote: What about giving a 100mcg shot of triptorelin as it directly stimulates LH and FSH before adding the clomid and nolva to maintain it?
Looked this up and it states triptorelin actually decreases natural testosterone? It's used for prostate cancer to slow the growth as the cancer needs test to grow?
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00pump wrote:
Mr Z wrote:
Yeah at a high dose it does. Maybe a combination of hcg and hmg ? The one mimics LH while the other mimics FSH but triptorelin stimulates both directly at a small 100mcg dose then after that do the standard clomid and nolva. That's just one of the methods out there but the experts know better. Micro nutrients associated with healthy test levels like selenium, zinc, carnitine etc you could also tryBench86 wrote:
Mr Z wrote: What about giving a 100mcg shot of triptorelin as it directly stimulates LH and FSH before adding the clomid and nolva to maintain it?
Looked this up and it states triptorelin actually decreases natural testosterone? It's used for prostate cancer to slow the growth as the cancer needs test to grow?
I just said FSH shots are going to cost you over 6k a month. Have you personally used any of these products? You are steering this member away from known reliable, accurate protocols that work. My endo only at the VERY last resort and I mean very last resort for my fertility did we discuss FSH shots, and that was after no drug could move me over 130 or so free test.
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Bench86 wrote: I want to drop fat % because I know that will also help with T. And preparing a week's meat on Sunday braai is very easy meal prep and tasty. I try and incorporate lamb, beef steak and liver and game. Also eat some full fat unflavored yoghurt at times. Tested for ketones and I am in ketosis.
Fertility is not an issue, I have two kids but don't want to struggle later if we do opt for a 3rd. Symptoms I experience that might indicate low T is low sex drive and performance, fat around the waist, very little body hair and depression (I've been on anti-depressants since high school).
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Muscleaddict wrote:
Bench86 wrote: I want to drop fat % because I know that will also help with T. And preparing a week's meat on Sunday braai is very easy meal prep and tasty. I try and incorporate lamb, beef steak and liver and game. Also eat some full fat unflavored yoghurt at times. Tested for ketones and I am in ketosis.
Fertility is not an issue, I have two kids but don't want to struggle later if we do opt for a 3rd. Symptoms I experience that might indicate low T is low sex drive and performance, fat around the waist, very little body hair and depression (I've been on anti-depressants since high school).
I guarantee you being 105Kg at 1.72m with high body fat is the #1 problem for your symptoms. There's an indisputable link between low testosterone and obesity. Quite honestly I wouldn't recommend fucking with your hormones until you've given a good shot at getting your body fat down to a healthy range. You can do it.
Your thyroid is fine. You can lose the weight. It's not realistic to expect to have good hormone levels and libido, with a BMI over 35 and high body fat unless you are on steroids which would be dangerous now.
Your total T is not seriously low, so your balls are definitely working. Your SHBG will be noticeably higher now than normal on a carnivore or keto diet. Free T looks scary but that is expected considering everything. Get to under 20% body fat. First goal, first priority.
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Bench86 wrote: Thanks for the advice muscleaddict.
The results were before I went on carniore diet, so high SHBG won't be from that. The thing is I've always struggled with my weight. I do competitive powerlifting so it's not from lack of activity, although I want to add some HIIT training.
My fat % is 26% (measured with callipers) so I do have quite a bit to lose. Most of my fat is around my waist and chest and even on strict diet I always seem to hit a wall.
My previous test results were at 95kg while I was doing slender wonder (coincidentally theybalso use HCG shots).
I do think I have a low T problem in general, definitely exacerbated by my fat% but also because of my dad's low T problem (and he wasn't overweight), and the fact that I've show certain symptoms even when I was at school (stomach fat, depression, libido).
But so far so good. I've lost 6kg on carnivore so far (three weeks) which would be mostly water but I've lost some cm's too (about 4cm) atound the waist.
Muscleaddict wrote:
Bench86 wrote: I want to drop fat % because I know that will also help with T. And preparing a week's meat on Sunday braai is very easy meal prep and tasty. I try and incorporate lamb, beef steak and liver and game. Also eat some full fat unflavored yoghurt at times. Tested for ketones and I am in ketosis.
Fertility is not an issue, I have two kids but don't want to struggle later if we do opt for a 3rd. Symptoms I experience that might indicate low T is low sex drive and performance, fat around the waist, very little body hair and depression (I've been on anti-depressants since high school).
I guarantee you being 105Kg at 1.72m with high body fat is the #1 problem for your symptoms. There's an indisputable link between low testosterone and obesity. Quite honestly I wouldn't recommend fucking with your hormones until you've given a good shot at getting your body fat down to a healthy range. You can do it.
Your thyroid is fine. You can lose the weight. It's not realistic to expect to have good hormone levels and libido, with a BMI over 35 and high body fat unless you are on steroids which would be dangerous now.
Your total T is not seriously low, so your balls are definitely working. Your SHBG will be noticeably higher now than normal on a carnivore or keto diet. Free T looks scary but that is expected considering everything. Get to under 20% body fat. First goal, first priority.
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