maintain ALL your cycle gains

i'd like to find out whether everyone here still believes that bull sh1t about how it's "impossible" to maintain all of your strength or muscle gains upon cessation of your AAS steroid cycle.

i'm not asking for any tips, i'm just curious to see how many of my fellow enhanced athletes are of an elevated intellect & simply pooh pooh fears of losing gains at the end of a cycle

I have been using gear for over 10 years, and I can comfortably say with extreme discipline one can retain most of their gains. However if you stop gear for a year your chances of staying in the samr shape as that on a cycle is next to impossible mainly due to circumstances like holiday in dec when you get lazy on eating an may be in a remote place where you won't be in a gym, you are going to lose a fair ammount of size an strength. Yes on paper it may be possible to keep most of you size an strength the reality is this is not normally the case. Also if you are like I stated 20 to 30 kgs over genetic limit due to years of dicipline if you stop steroids long enough you will lose majority of those gains. An this is due to the genetic make up of the body, an not enough androgens to sustain that muscle mass. Once again you may get an exception to the rule. However all your mass monstors, yates included have lost incredible size an this is not because he doesn't wan to look like mr olympia but the body cant sustain that size without near on year round cycles. What I just said is not from my mouth but from friends who are competative bodybuilders an pro friends in the uk. Once again this is my thoughts an theory and everyond is entitled to think or believe what they like.

Miguel I started when I was 24 years old and been on and off intermittently over the years. When I was younger it was easier to keep gains and definitely my strength. But now at over 40, when I am off cycle, I see quite big decreases in strength and to a lesser degree size.

OOPump just curious as to how guys stay on year round - do they have mini pct's in between or just run the cycle and use other compounds to support them with sides?

mrwhite: Firstly I don't recommend year long cycles as they place way to much strain on the body. The only time I would see a need for it would be a competitive bodybuilder who is doing multiple shows a year or a professional bodybuilder trying to compete at that level where he would need to be on par with the rest of competitors.

There are multiple ways to do year round cycles, the way a friend of mine does it is he just never goes off. He uses higher doses in the off season (few months out of contest) and then adjusts his compounds he uses closer to contest.

The other way I have seen people do it is with a bridge dose of anabolics while they do what they believe to be a PCT. There is no way in my mind I feel you can fully recover as even a compound as mild as proviron can and will shut you down further.

HCG is used in different intervals during the cycle and normally quite a high dose 1500iu eod for 3 - 5 days depending on the severity of his imbalance or knowing your body and seeing the changes that come. Normally during this peroid is where he breaks through another plateau and continues to pack on muscle mass. Times have changed and people are opting for the more suttle approach and using lower doses of HCG, around 250-500iu eod or even every 3rd day.

Please note the friends I speak of have 22+ years of steroid experience and are in their 40's so they handle things differently to that of a person in his mid 20's.

Miguel wrote: i'd like to find out whether everyone here still believes that bull sh1t about how it's "impossible" to maintain all of your strength or muscle gains upon cessation of your AAS steroid cycle.

i'm not asking for any tips, i'm just curious to see how many of my fellow enhanced athletes are of an elevated intellect & simply pooh pooh fears of losing gains at the end of a cycle

Miguel, are you telling us that you believe it is possible to keep all your gains after you stop a steroid cycle?

Our bodies have never been "designed" to be this muscular and unless you have a mutation in the MSTN gene (double-muscle mutation) you will eventually loose size after you stop using anabolic steroids. Even while using steroids, your body is constantly trying to reverse the muscle hypertrophy that the steroids are helping to cause. Hyperplasia is likely to be harder to "undo" and that's why you don't loose much size after GH, IGF, MGF ect cycles.

Our bodies are highly efficient machines and it will do anything to survive, so why should it stay inefficient with allot of redundant muscle that only waste valuable energy? It will only sustain the minimum muscle needed for survival in your particular situation. For example, if you do no hard physical "work" daily it doesn't have to be strong, however if you wrestle lions and hippos everyday it will adapt and grow extra muscle so that your survival is maximized.

Since most of us don't have to hunt down our food by running 20km per day or fight with lions and cheetahs we have to do weight training as stimulus. But you are likely to reach your genetic potential at some point and that is why we use steroids to further enhance our abilities. The moment you stop to "unnaturally" enhance your genetic potential you will just return to normal even with training although it will help to slow down the process.

Remember most pro's use steroids for about 10 out of the 12 months of the year. Others don't even bother with that and what's the point of PCT for them anyway? They will not admit it but most suffer from a number of health issues.

Your comments have me smiling to myself so far. All I heard is a resounding "no, we haven't a clue". The operative word there was "all" not "most" of your gains.

First off all I don't refer to maintaining your gains should you decide to quit training & proper diet for months. Nor do I refer to maintaining them after being off cycle for a whole year. In fact I personally believe that you should ideally only be on cycle for a total off 22 weeks a year (42,3% of the year).

Reason being you should, imo, only use steroids as a boost to allow your body to break past natural barriers. Then from there maintain, improve & further advance on your following cycle, then repeat steps. But I don't expect you to agree. The world of bodybuilding is all about superlatives & excess, isn't it (I'm a powerlifter)? Just like I don't understand why you would insult, your body by using HPTA suppressing steroids, without a testosterone base, in an attempt to get cut. Or stay on a cycle for 10 months?! Then wonder why sexual dysfunction and permanent endogenous androgen suppression results.

The reason I'm not surprised that even after years of experience, no one here knows is because, you have a less than academic interest/ curiosity in anabolic steroids.

Enough about that. I do have a method of maintaining all gains the made. I'm sure you're all aware that anabolism occurs via different pathways & not all anabolism is hormonal. I'll avoid giving it away, but I'll say this, besides helping to maintain gains, most of my friends who I've shared with & experimented on also make further gains while using my method.

The only thing I will concede is that yes Mr White, I do imagine that it would be slightly less effective using my method the older you get & even the more ridiculous your musculature becomes. But... I do have a 35 year old friend who I've allowed to use my method & it worked perfectly with him. And currently, the heaviest of my friends who uses it to maintain, weighs in at 118kg.

Miguel wrote: .....I do have a method of maintaining all gains the made.....

Really? So tell me what it is? Unless you proof yourself you have no credibility and you are just another big mouth.

He said he'll avoid giving it away so I guess he's got no credibility then and is just a big mouth. @ Miguel, what's the point of bragging when you aren't willing to share, and how does keeping things to yourself benefit you, are you worried people will be bigger than you? Don't you feel a better person when you share ideas because Im sure you got to where you are with other people sharing ideas and secrets with you?

Miguel wrote: ...........The only thing I will concede is that yes Mr White, I do imagine that it would be slightly less effective using my method the older you get & even the more ridiculous your musculature becomes. But... I do have a 35 year old friend who I've allowed to use my method & it worked perfectly with him. And currently, the heaviest of my friends who uses it to maintain, weighs in at 118kg.

Ooooooooooh! Do i sense a degree of grandeur here?

BBG part 2? :dry: :whistle:

I agree with Admin, you can't go around saying "I can cure cancer" but you don't want "to give it all away" ... What's the point?

Guys this oke is obviously pushing something! His next post will be a referral to a product which he will supply at a minimal cost for only a short period of time. And off course....... this product is the new breakthrough and the best thing to hit BB since AAS :ohmy:

Then I suppose, big mouth it is then coz there will be no "product reveal". This isn't an infomercial.

And there's absolutely no bragging in any of my posts. Like I mentioned initially, I'm not looking for tips. I'm just curious to find out if anyone else has caught on or whether we're still convinced that cycle gains are guaranteed to mostly vanish.

@Sting after my 1st cycle & the resultant loss, I was unsatisfied to say the least. But that taught me how important knowledge & extensive, objective research are. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention, & so I came back smarter & stronger.

My first cycle was the last time I ever relied on anyone other than myself. I don't care to have other people share their "secrets" with me because most of the time, they'll just regurgitate BB lore & psuedoscience. I also don't care to be the biggest, Sting. I don't see the point of having muscles that are all show & no go. What I do care about is being the strongest. Getting stares & a crowd in the morning or at lunchtime when I'm stacking my plates for a squat because no one believes that someone my size can handle all that weight.

It's silly that I have to defend my stance though.. All I'm waiting to see is a "no" or hopefully a "yes" to my original question. And like I said, I'm not looking for tips

Miguel wrote: Then I suppose, big mouth it is then coz there will be no "product reveal". This isn't an infomercial.

And there's absolutely no bragging in any of my posts. Like I mentioned initially, I'm not looking for tips. I'm just curious to find out if anyone else has caught on or whether we're still convinced that cycle gains are guaranteed to mostly vanish.

@Sting after my 1st cycle & the resultant loss, I was unsatisfied to say the least. But that taught me how important knowledge & extensive, objective research are. As they say, necessity is the mother of invention, & so I came back smarter & stronger.

My first cycle was the last time I ever relied on anyone other than myself. I don't care to have other people share their "secrets" with me because most of the time, they'll just regurgitate BB lore & psuedoscience. I also don't care to be the biggest, Sting. I don't see the point of having muscles that are all show & no go. What I do care about is being the strongest. Getting stares & a crowd in the morning or at lunchtime when I'm stacking my plates for a squat because no one believes that someone my size can handle all that weight.

It's silly that I have to defend my stance though.. All I'm waiting to see is a "no" or hopefully a "yes" to my original question. And like I said, I'm not looking for tips

Listen princess, if you are not looking for tips and not giving tips you have no value here. Unless you proof to have extensive knowledge you are just another average steroid user with a big mouth.

I don't claim to know everything and that's why I'm interested in what you claims to know. There are a couple of guys here that are absolutely mind blowing with what they know and what they have achieved... The two at the top of that list is Doctari and Conan. You will envy the respect those two have in their fields... Doctari is a well known bodybuilder and his scientific knowledge and experience is far greater than any other guy I've met. Conan is SA record holder in powerlifting, so if you are as great as you claim to be you would know who he is. What makes them so special is the fact that both train others and they are always more than willing to share their secrets.

We've had guys like you here before and the most annoying was some snotkop that thought he was messiah and claimed to have a steroid bible with all the steroid secrets known to god in there, but he refused to give us anything. Don't go that route and if you are not here to contribute just leave us alone to do our thing...

I dont quite understand where this is goin, miguel you say you have knowledge of a technique that guarantees keeping 100 percent of steroid gains while off cycle, but then you simply refuse to share even a hint of such knowledge... Is there then a reason for your post in the first place? This is a knowledge sharing site, thats what we all come here for, and im sure everyone here is very interested in your knowledge. Now i ask whether you are willing to share anything or is this goin to go the same way countless others have gone? No one here wants to be spoonfed secrets, but some sort of information would allow us to at least discuss the topic at hand with you instead of argueing over whether such knowledge even exists.

Hey Miguel

I am always willing to learn and always interested in learning new things.

Thats the beauty about this site is that I learn so many things from people more knowledgeable than me.

I can assure you if you work with everyone on here you will too learn a thing or two, nobody knows it all or you going to get grated and eventually you wont feel welcome.

Sweet. As spike said nobody here expects to be spoof fed but maybe point us to something we need to do some research on or a few medical studies and I'd love to read those papers.

This guy has got some issues. Miguel you say you dont care about being big and vascular and only worry about strenth coz people look at you when you loading the rack for squats. Yes it does feel nice to have people look at you in the gym because you are lifting some crazy weights i know as i have always been naturally strong and lift weights that guys much bigger than me are lifting but being very strong and looking like a power lifter is ok in the gym but not cool on the beach. I would much rather look great when my shirt comes off as then you going to have all the ladies looking at you and not just fellow weight lifters in the gym.

Still doesn't make sense, he states he is not big but he can retain all his gains. If I could retain all my gains I would be a MASS MONSTER.

at the end of the day lifestyle plays a big part in gain retention,i see it time and time again where guys go on food and drinking and partying binges after a cycle,alot of the time they stop training aswell hence the reason the gains loss,yes its to be accepted that u will loose some of your on cycle gains as the body becomes slower to recover with out the use of AAS,but that being said alot of "Loss of gains" is put down to the water drop post cycle,if your diet is clean,your pct is solid,you shouldnt even drop more than 2-3kgs post cycle...the way to judge your "loss of gains" is if your strength diminishes post cycle...if it does then u are loosing some gains,if it carries on dropping after about 2 weeks then you are under eating,over training and not getting enough rest to recover!

so its not bullshit,u can retain all your lean mass gains,but you cant retain all your "MASS" gains post cycle... unless you like looking like a puffer fish all bloated with water...

Hey guys I'm just wandering what is the most potent post cycle therapy one can go on if money isn't an issue . I was using just Novaldex 20mg/s per day alone and it helped me alot with keeping my gains from my first cycle but now i want to try HCG 500iu daily injections for 3 weeks in my pct this should help a lot with regards to keeping my gains. But i haven't injected HCG before and i'm wondering how do inject this stuff.Advise will be much appreciated here bud.

Please don't use other peoples threads to ask a question, open a new thread. However the best thing to do is read through the PCT section thouarly. Once you done with that and have the best understanding based on different compounds, etc. Take a look at Doctari PCT it is a sticky under the PCT section. It is the most comprehensive and has fertility tests to prove the layout.