PCT - Deca, Testen and Dianabol

Hi need expert help from you guys...

I would like to start my 4th cycle at the beginning of Feb 2012. I would like to use Deca350, Testen300 and Dianabol10.

Cycle will be as follow:

Deca 350mg (p/w) - week 1 to 10
Testen 600mg (p/w) - week 1 to 12
Dianabol 30mg(p/d) - week 1 to 04

Could you please advise me on an affordable PCT for this cycle and if you think it will be necessarily to use anything during the cycle.

My stats:

Age: 28
weight 82kg
lengh: 1.80

Goal - Mass gaining.

Any feedback would be welcomed.

even if you 100mg of deca it will shut you down, best to go with doctari's PCT

What's your bf% after 4 cycles at 82kg? May be you need some tweaking there, or did you just start off uber skinny like me?
There is a ton of good PCT advice here, there are subtle differences here and there but the just of it is the same.
For a 1g cycle including deca your most important friend is HCG, followed by a good SERM (like tamoxifen). Do some reading on how to use these two compounds. I only advocate tamoxifen, but others feel clomiphene is a useful addition or replacement around deca.

Thanks for the reply. i started on 56kg... I changed my mind about the cycle: here goes...


My cycle will be as follow:

Deca350: 10 weeks (350mg/week)
Testen300: 12 weeks (600mg/week)
Anavar20: 5 weeks (40mg/day)

Is it necessary to run a AI while on the cycle and if you recommend it what should I use that is affordable?

Also, what should I use for PCT on this cycle that is also affordable?

Doctari's PCT too expensive...

BF: 13%

It's a pity you started so light, would be much bigger if you maxed out on your natural potential...
Anavar at 40mg will not kick your cycle. Especially a mass cycle with Deca and Testen.
TProp, Dbol, Tbol, etc... These are better kickers. I like Tbol and prop.

How was your response to estrogen on previous cycles and what doages were they? On cycle four you should be telling me if you need an AI based on your experience... Listen to your body.
As a rule though I always have one on hand, just in case.

As for PCT, lets not get repetitive. I already said you need HCG and a SERM. Read up on the best ways to use these, they are really cheap especially when you consider their purpose at the end of the cycle.

LoL @ Inja (lets not get repetitive) dam I missed that witty sense of humor.

I will read up on SERM, I have read a bit on HCG.

Thank you for your advise so far.

I have never used an AI before but just kept Nolva on hand. A source at A Steroids SA told me that I can only use Nolva as a PCT, That was a two week PCT on Deca300 (10weeks) & Testoviron 500 (12weeks). 20mg Nolva for two weeks.

The reason why i dont want to use D-Bol is because of all the side effect i suffered on my first two cycles. I was nausea's all the time and my hair was falling out drastically.

I know that the Anavar doesn't really increase size but strength though and the sides are minimal?

What confuses me is that so many people on the net says that you should stay away from Nolva on a Deca cycle and other say stay away from HCG when using Deca. I will follow your advise but really want to try the Anavar instead of D-bol.

On the cycle that i have given you how much SERM and HCG should I use and when would you say. I see that the HCG comes in 5000iu/2ml. How do I use this?

Thanks again for your advise.

Dude a SERM is Clomid / Nolva..

Read my 2 articles, they explain pretty much all you just asked, right down to the post about Deca and Nolva.

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/drug...trogens/41-tamoxifen

And

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/drug...rogens/40-clomiphene

Mr Pump,

"Tamoxifen in general is cycled for a desired dose of 20mg for a cycle duration of 30 days following all Anabolic Steroid cycles, regardless of how mild you may believe the shutdown and suppression might be on your hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular (HPTA) axis".

This helps allot.

Will i be correct if I say that i use HCG during my cycle and Nolva 8 days after the cycle (20mg p/d)? I know I sound like a retard but we all must learn at some point from the best... It seems that you prefer nolva above Clomid for Deca so i will stick to nolva.

How much HCG during my cycle and for how long.

is the Anavar a waist with Deca and Testen? if not how much Anavar should I take per day and for how long?

Multiple ways to skin a cat.. You can run hCG during cycle at around 250iu every other day, or even every 3rd or 4th day.. When you get to know your body it is allot easier to know exact dose.. You can either do it that way or you can follow one of the PCT's mentioned in the article section.. I would only start the hCG around mid way through if you want to use it during the cycle.

Hmm, Anavar will stack nicely with that at around 80mg a day.. It's a bit pricey but will be a great added bonus if money isn't a problem.

I am going to follow your advise then. Can I mix the hCG with the Testen and Deca in the same syringe?

here is my cycle then after all you guys have given me here, please add changes to it if you see the need.

Deca350 - 10weeks (350mg/week)
Testen300 - 12 weeks (600mg/week)
Anavar20 - 5 weeks (first 5 weeks at 80mg/day)
hCG5000 - {twice a week (every 3 - 4 days) at 250iu} and will inject with the Deca and testen? Will start hCG on week 5 of 12 and use till week 13. (a week after last shot of testen)
Nolvadex20 - 20mg/day for 30 days starting 8 days after last shot of Testen.

i hope this will carry out your approval? Please advise if i am going wrong somewhere.

At 80mg var is a pricey kicker but you'll get a kick with limited side effects as that's what you're after...

It's never really a great idea to mix proteins into oil. Makes them unstable, rather shoot the hCG SQ with a slin pin. Personally I'd run the hCG through 14 or 15 with the SERM. There's still a bit of suppression happening at this stage with the long esthers.

Rest is fine, keep in mind deca has a rep. I'd get an extra vial of hCG in the fridge even after PCT. I had a nasty resuppression months after running slightly more deca once. If you don't need it then you'll have it for your next cycle or if you can't have babies.

Inja, You are talking Greek to me here. i am really dumb and still learning. What i am getting from what you are saying is that i should inject the hCG separate and not with the gear. Also, what is a slin pin? I am trying to read on the net but no luck. What do you mean by "through 14 or 15"? Is that the gage of the syringe? What lengh must the needle be an where do I inject hCG? Will keep extra hCG in the fridge as you say. How will i know when to use the extra hCG after my PCT? When the gyno starts? (nipple issues).

Please help me!

To be honest bud, you should stay away from doing a cycle until your knowledge is a bit better. Don't mean to be rude, please don't take offence. Read, read and then read some more. Your knowledge is the key to a succesful cycle.

I am planning to start the cycle middle FEB. That is why am doing research now. Help through you guys is how I do research. i got this on hCG now and this makes allot of sense. just hope you'll agree with it...

How To Prepare HCG

Human Chorionic Gonadotropin often comes as lyophilized powder in a small vial. You need the following to reconstitute it:

1 syringe with 1.5" needle
1 bottle of Bacteriostatic water

1) Do your calculations. I recommend using 1 cc of Bac water per 1,000 iu of HCG. This means a vial with 2,000 iu will require 2 cc of Bac water.

2) Use the syringe with needle to draw up desired amount of Bac water.

3) Carefully and slowly inject the Bac water into the vial of HCG powder. Do not shake. It is now fully reconstituted and ready for use.

4) Store the reconstituted HCG in a refrigerator when not in use.

Recommended Dosing

HCG is best used in small frequent doses throughout the cycle and not during Post Cycle Therapy. I recommend HCG treatment begin during the second week of a cycle and end just before PCT starts. The dose one needs varies and can be adjusted mid cycle if necessary. Because leptin is a major inhibitor of gonadal function in men, men with higher body fat levels require larger doses of HCG to get the same effect.

Body Fat Percentage

<10%: 250-300 iu twice weekly
10-15%: 300-350 iu twice weekly
>15%: 350-500 iu twice weekly

5) Do the math to determine the volume you need for your desired dose. 1 cc = 1,000 iu, so 0.5 cc = 500 iu, 0.25 cc = 250 iu etc.

6) Use an insulin syringe (29 gauge is ideal) to measure your dose and inject subcutaneously one inch to either side of your belly button.

If testicular atrophy begins to occur on your selected dose, simply raise yourself to the next bracket. It is better to not use more than you need if you plan to come off cycle eventually. Minor atrophy is quickly reversed with proper Post Cycle Therapy.

I generally recommend that you have Tamoxifen Citrate (aka Nolva) or Raloxifene Hydrochloride (aka Evista) available in case you develop signs of gynecomastia.

Anabolic1984 wrote: Inja, I am really dumb.

Don't be so hard on yourself, you just need research

Anabolic1984 wrote: What i am getting from what you are saying is that i should inject the hCG separate and not with the gear.

Yes

Anabolic1984 wrote: Also, what is a slin pin?

Slin = insulin, pin = needle for syringe, slin pin = insulin syringe (the one with the small ass needle that we normally use for subcutaneous (SQ) injections.

Anabolic1984 wrote: What do you mean by "through 14 or 15"? Is that the gage of the syringe?

Weeks 14 and 15. The gauge should be around 20 to draw (suck up) and 23/24 to shoot (inject)

Anabolic1984 wrote: How will i know when to use the extra hCG after my PCT? When the gyno starts?

Run the hCG for tail end of cycle through to weeks 14 or 15 after cycle to keep signalling natty test (natural testosterone) production and keep your ballz (testicles) from atrophy.
After cycle (while still on hCG and then after hCG) you run the SERM (like tamoxifen) to block estrogen from signalling to the brain that there is no LH, so you get LH workinh again (hCG will inhibit LH secretion)
hCG can cause gyno, it is not to treat gyno. It's for bringing your ballz back...

P.S. We are here to help but don't like to churn out the same info to every new member. You can find alot of this information on old threads, baby steps bro.

Its really confusing at first. When I bought my stuff for my first cycle I remember phoning my supplier and asking where the fudge is nolva on the pricelist (which was listed as kessar) and I didn't know pregnyl was hcg either :dry:

You'll learn everything in due time bud...

As for pregnyl during the cycle it depends on opinion. Some advocate its use during cycle others say its a waste. If dosages aren't massive and the duration of the cycle is under 16weeks I don't think you need to pin it during the cycle, just use it for the pct... Or even better buy ovidrel instead (hcg is freeze dried piss) and use the ovidrel with clomid, nolva and aromasin.

Inja, thanks again for all your help. I have been spending all my time the past two days on PCT. This is my 4th cycle but all the others were just small ones and i was told by my supplier that iI dont need PCT on such small cycles. That was just 5 weeks of d-bol and 8 of sustonen. I have decided to do a bigger one now and are nervous. want to get all my fact right so that i dont crash. wish you were my training partner. Need a mentor on this! I will read more about pct on the forum, its just that there are so many different opinions. Ans thats so confusing. Will shout if i need more help. dont you have a private e-mail?

No need for private e-mails, like you said everybody has their own view, and this is the best place to hear them and decide for yourelf.
For instance it just came up that you could pin your hCG all after the cycle. Had you not come to this thread again you would only know about the other option you read to run the hCG on cycle. You see most of us pin after the cycle to kick start the ol' balle. If your leaving the hCG in the fridge and drawing all cycle the stuff is slowly going off...

5 weeks Dbol and 8 weeks Sustanon is not a bad cycle, so your advisor is not a complete donkey, but you should always have PCT on hand. While recovery is better when you are younger and when doses are low, there is always some kind of shut down and most of us always advocate some kind of PCT.

I would suggest you become a regular member on this forum, and read through all threads not just your own. You have much to learn and it will only be for your benefit. Don't rush into this stuff..

How long has it been since your last cycle?

Inja, you have a good point by following the thread. i have decided to spent my entire day tomorrow on research (PCT and hCG). I have spent 4 days on it now at work and are falling so far behind. All my gear have been ordered but will start my cycle at the end of the month so I still have time. You asked how long i have been off since my last cycle. it will be 12 weeks at the end of the month and my cycle was also 12 weeks. time off = time on, right?

I am going to be honest. This is the first time that i am nervous to start a cycle. It seems the more research i do the more confused I get as there is so many different opinions. i have decided to read all about hCG and PCT tomorrow and will post my final decision as soon as i am done so that you can give me your opinion. Since I started this thread I have changed my mind so many times on what cycle i am going to use as money also plays a factor. What I will tell you now is that my order is paid and on its way. This is what I have ordered. Its only to get the perfect PCT and hCG timing now...

Deca350 10ml x 1 vial (350p/w)
Testen300 10ml x 3 vials (will only use 2.5) (600 p/w)
Dianabol50 x 5 (will only use 4.5) (60 p/d)
hCG5000 x 2 (will only use 1 and keep one on hand) problem is like you said it goes off...) i cant order under R300
Clomid50 x 1
Nolvade20 x 1
Syringe3ml x 60 (just ordered for future as well)
Insulin syringe.5 x 60 (same story).

Like I said, i cant say when i am going to use the hCH, Clomid and Nolva as i still have to more research. I studied through Anabolics2009 but it is not much of help as there is different PCT's to different cycles and the only give advise on overall....

I will not bug you for now, as you said read more through the other threads, same questions and answers get repeated. thanks for your help. wish I had you as a mentor! have a great weekend bud!

Message at 00Pump, Inja, Jakes, Netro and David.

I was told by you all to stop posting on PCT and do more research. At first I thought that these guys were all harsh but after spending more than a week on this site and other on the net I came to my senses and realised that was the best advice you could give. You’ll are pro’s especially Pump and Inja. I doubt that most of the other guys asking for advice did that after you told them the same thing (more research). First I would like to say thanks for all your help so far and I took your advice on reading up.

I changed my mind again on my cycle and decided to go with Deca, Testen and D-bol. The reason why I didn’t want to go with the D-bol is the fact that I get nauseas in the mornings when I wake up. I assumed that it was the D-bol as it always happened only when using D-bol… I will just have to stick it through as money plays a big factor and D-bol is cheap…. I have put a new cycle on paper according to days and not weeks. Used the same layout and protocol as the sample cycle’s on this site and did it on Excel. Can’t fit Excel in here so I will make it as short as possible. I think you guys would be allot more impressed this time with my cycle but still need help on hCG as there is just too many opinions all over the (your) threads and net. Makes sense though, all cycles differ and so do our bodies. Most important thing I learned with the PCT was the esters (longest) x 3 to get starting period, never knew… I got my gear this week but only starts on the 1st of Feb as previously mentioned, so there is still time to make changes if necessary. Please note that this is my 5th cycle and not 4th as I mentioned before. My cycle and pct is as follow…

Cycle:

D-bol: 60mg/day – Day 1 -35 (10mg with meals)
Testen300: 600mg/week – Day 1 – 85 (every 7th day)
Deca350: 350mg/week – Day 1 – 71 (every 7th day) Can I inject the Testen and Deca at once as it would be 3ml. I used to do 2ml on the ass…

PCT:

Clomid: 100mg/day – Day 116 – 120 (5days)
Clomid: 50mg/day – Day 121 – 125 (5days)
Nolvadex: 20mg/day – Day 116 – 146 (30 days) Is it ok to take the Nolavadex with Clomid (Day 116-125) ???

Now for the hCG and this is where I need your help. I got 2x5000iU. Please give me advise on when to use it on this cycle and how much. There is just too many opinions from everybody. Some say start halfway through the cycle and other say only during cycle. Some say only 3 weeks on hCG others say throughout your PCT which is longer than 3 weeks… What I did learn is that 250iu every 4th day would do but is this true and when to start and end?

I have followed the rules this time and hope that I have it all right this time out. i still do believe that I need your advise.

Your feedback would be much appreciated.

Jakes??? Need your advise please.

I would have gotten ovidrel instead bro... Anyway, its not a harsh cycle. How many have you done before? I prefer more test... Go to the articles section and check out pct number two. It explains everything nicely bud.

Edit: there is no need to use it during your cycle, you will recover just fine afterwards don't worry.

It's my fifth. Not going too big.

I think no2 (PCT) will be best. Just wanted to know if I should use the hCG during the cycle? Are you happy with the cycle? my stats and more of my personal info is on my 1st thread. Gave you a karma as well by the way...


Edit: How much Test E would you have suggested?

Thanks bro.

No bud, keep it and use it for pct. Deca shuts you down hard but below 14 weeks it fine.

Its a nice cycle, light but nice. I would have gone with 1150mg test e and 525mg deca. (Which is still light)