PCT start time, a different look at it

Was just thinking about the PCT start times and how this whole 3xhalf-life rule came about and got a little confused so I went back to 1st principles...

Let's start off with just a single shot of test cyp with a half life of 10.5 days I think. Let's say I were to start a one shot "cycle" of the cyp, it would take about 30 days for the test to reach peak concentration in my plasma and at this point I'd have 250mg test flowing through (assuming PGW and that my natural test production is 0 at this point).

Now what happens next is what really got me thinking. After peaking a month after the shot do test levels just fall away the next day? Of course not they gradually deteriorate at the rate that they rose (different for every ester), so it would take another 30 days (roughly) for the test to dissipate.
So it would take a total of 60 days (roughly) for the test to clear our system completely from the day we took the shot, but PCT should be started sooner than that probably 2 weeks prior (might try to make a spreadsheet later if I have a chance to show when exactly) so that test levels don't fall below 50mg which is roughly what our bodies produce per week.

Previously when calculating PCT start times (wait 30 days after last cyp shot, 3xlength of ester etc) it seems it only took into account how long it will take the last shot to clear forgetting that it takes the same amount of time for the test to build up in the 1st place.

We can certainly extend this theory into a full on 10 week 500mg cycle, by the time you take that 10th, and last shot, your test levels will be well in excess of 500mg (due to the build up of dissipating test as well as the 500mg surge you'll get due to the shot you took at week 6). Now considering that you still have 3 weeks of dormant test yet to kick in (from weeks 7,8,9) and the fact that it'll take another 4 weeks for this current (week 10) shot just to kick in, is it not a little premature to be starting PCT a month after that last shot?

So, should it actually be 6x the length of the ester?

So is 8 weeks of deca or equi really that pointless considering how long it'll take for you to start pct? If you took 8 weeks of injections does it not make sense that you should expect 8 weeks of the substance constantly peaking a week apart in your in your bloodstream regardless of how long it takes to kick in?
So starting PCT 7 weeks after the last shot of a 8 week deca cycle might actually be the pointless part

Thoughts please

pct.befit4free.net/index.php

just use that, it will give u a couple of differetn days to start your pct, i would go for the last day,and add 1 week.

using this calculator they recon if you inject for example 500mg on day 1 of test cyp, if you only do 1 injection you would need to start pct on day 19 when the level reaches 84mg,so 18days after your shot (which is just shy of 2x the half life) like i said i would add in another week to this to make sure making your test levels 46mg.

yes after 30days your test levels will be at about 1000mg (peak concentration) so working on that you would need to wait 29days to get your test levels down to less than 60mg.

just have a squizz at that pct calculator, will put alot more perspective, i would only start pct when levels are less than 50mg...

PCT Calculator wrote: Day 1: 500mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 2: 952.9mg T, 0mg E/D/TInjection Day
Day 3: 863.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 4: 781.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 5: 708mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 6: 641.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 7: 580.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 8: 526mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 9: 476.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 10: 431.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 11: 390.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 12: 353.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 13: 320.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 14: 290.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 15: 263mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 16: 238.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 17: 215.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 18: 195.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 19: 177mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 20: 160.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 21: 145.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 22: 131.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 23: 119.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 24: 107.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 25: 97.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 26: 88.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 27: 80.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT

This is the problem I was alluding to, they assume that since you injected 1000mg you'll automatically have 1000mg of test in your blood stream and it will start to taper off immediately which as we all know is not true. If this is the case then why would you get a surge of test a month later when your test levels are supposed to be back to normal basically?

It should really look something like this:

Day 1: 80.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start Cycle
Day 2: 88.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 3: 97.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 4: 107.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T

building up all the way to 1000mg at day 28, then:

Day 28: 1000mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 29: 952.9mg T, 0mg E/D/TI
Day 30: 863.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 31: 781.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 32: 708mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 33: 641.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 34: 580.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 35: 526mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 36: 476.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 37: 431.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 38: 390.8mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 39: 353.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 40: 320.6mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 41: 290.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 42: 263mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 43: 238.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 44: 215.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 45: 195.4mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 46: 177mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 47: 160.3mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 48: 145.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 49: 131.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T
Day 50: 119.1mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 51: 107.9mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 52: 97.7mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 53: 88.5mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT
Day 54: 80.2mg T, 0mg E/D/T - Start PCT

DJ wrote: yes after 30days your test levels will be at about 1000mg (peak concentration) so working on that you would need to wait 29days to get your test levels down to less than 60mg.

just have a squizz at that pct calculator, will put alot more perspective, i would only start pct when levels are less than 50mg...

So then does that not mean you have to wait 60 days after the last shot instead of 30?

look at something like taking an oral like ephadrine bro,it has say a 3 hour half life for this example, when you take it at 50mg, 30mins later it hits you,it doesnt build up over time every 3 hours,it takes 30mins to reach the blood stream, so 50mg will hit the blood stream... 3 hours later after initial dosage you dont get worse effects cos it is building up in the system,the symptoms start to deminish as it has a 3 hour half life...

so when u inject a 1000mg into the system, you have a 1000mg in the system, you wont feel the effects for a 2-3 weeks as steroids dont instally repair you,over time they increase the repair of damaged muscle tissue, the dose does help with the recovery rate but if you inject a 1000mg at a time,it doesnt take a couple of days to build up to that dose.

Deadgoat wrote:

DJ wrote: yes after 30days your test levels will be at about 1000mg (peak concentration) so working on that you would need to wait 29days to get your test levels down to less than 60mg.

just have a squizz at that pct calculator, will put alot more perspective, i would only start pct when levels are less than 50mg...

So then does that not mean you have to wait 60 days after the last shot instead of 30?

nope. if you are using 300mg of test enanthate a week for 10 weeks, you will get to a point that you wont get any more in the system unless you up your dosage. so by day 15 u are nearly at your maximum dosage, by day 64 you have hit maximum build up of 599mg. so by day 71 when you take your last shot you have got 599.8mg in the system, so for it to drop down to 60mg in the system its gonna take roughly 30 days (3 x the half life of 10 days)

I'm struggling to follow you here bro, if you have 1000mg of hormone in your system immediately and it tapers back down to normal after 28 days then why would you get a strength and recovery surge when its supposed to be out of your system then (4 weeks later)?

I think I hear what you're saying about the ephedrine but the difference is that you say the effects are almost immediate whilst test kicks in when theoretically its suppose to be out of your system (going by that calculator) which is whats got me bothered

bud the thing is, steroids make the body recover faster, that is a given, so injecting a 1000mg will mean it will start to taper off,thats science. your recovery does surge, sometime it has taken me a week - 2 weeks to recover from a legs session(glutes and quads still painful etc) but when on a cycle, i am recovered within the first 6 days, so it does boost your recovery instantly, it takes a while for your body to repair and develop enough muscle to notice the strength gains. its not like your steroids are going to make you recover in the first day and add on 5kgs of lean muscle. it helps reduce the recovery period from say 21days, to 6 days, which means that your muscle repairs quicker and you grow more muscle. so the strength gain wont be a surge but the recovery sure will be.

ok maybe lets use morphine for instance. u just got out an opperation, you are incredible pain, lets say morphine has a 1 hour half life, you inject 1cc into the vein,it doesnt take 1 hour to build up into the system,it takes about 30seconds, after 1 hour the effects are halved,then 1 hour later the results are halved again and then 1 hour later they are halved again and the pain is back so u inject another 1cc... and the same thing happens.

DJ wrote: nope. if you are using 300mg of test enanthate a week for 10 weeks, you will get to a point that you wont get any more in the system unless you up your dosage. so by day 15 u are nearly at your maximum dosage, by day 64 you have hit maximum build up of 599mg. so by day 71 when you take your last shot you have got 599.8mg in the system, so for it to drop down to 60mg in the system its gonna take roughly 30 days (3 x the half life of 10 days)

About the "point that you wont get anymore in the system", do you not mean a point where you no longer have any free androgen receptors? Becasue surely even if all of them are occupied the fact that you're still injecting means you're still adding x amount of hormone to your body and its floating around, and as long as its there your body will suppress its own test production which means even though your body doesn't use it it'll still effect PCT start time right?

For the part in bold, now when you take that last shot of test at day 71, whats the point of taking it if you already have 599mg and it will drop down immediately? Is this not a pointless shot if its not going to raise your test levels and it wont prolong PCT start time (how long it takes for your test to drop below60mg)?

bro u are over thinking this. at day 71 u have just injected 300mg, making the amount in your system go up to 599mg.if you didnt take your shot the amount in the system would be 299mg...

so look at this u inject 300mg on monday, so 10 days later it is down to 150mg so you inject 300mg making the amount in the system 450mg, 10 days later it will be down to 225mg and u inject another 300mg making the amount 525mg, another 10 days later its down to 262mg,so you inject 300mg bringing the level up to 562mg....so thats the point of injecting every so often ever 10days for this example.

now for the point i was making on you wont get any more in your system unless you up your dosage.

day 1 u inject 300mg, by day 10 its 150mg,so u inject 300mg again bringing the level up to 450mg 10 days later u will get to 225mg in the system, now if u decide to inject 600mg you will bring the level up to 825mg that day and then 10days later it will be back down to 412.5mg so u inject another 600mg u will get to 1012.5mg... if you only inject 300mg a week by day 64 the dose will be 299mg so instead of injecting 300mg again you inject 600mg so that will bring up the dose to 900mg so that the only way u will get more than 600mg of substance built up in the system.

DJ wrote: bro u are over thinking this. at day 71 u have just injected 300mg, making the amount in your system go up to 599mg.if you didnt take your shot the amount in the system would be 299mg...

so look at this u inject 300mg on monday, so 10 days later it is down to 150mg so you inject 300mg making the amount in the system 450mg, 10 days later it will be down to 225mg and u inject another 300mg making the amount 525mg, another 10 days later its down to 262mg,so you inject 300mg bringing the level up to 562mg....so thats the point of injecting every so often ever 10days for this example.

Calculation error on my part, its starting to make sense now especially that post about recovery being quicker a few days into the cycle. The problem is most people frontload with dbol so I usually take it that there's no effects from the test until about week 4, so the frontload is mostly for strength then as the test would've given you recovery anyway? My mind is blown right now, should estrogen related side effects not happen sooner then when on a test only cycle?

estrogen sides will happen when excess testosterone aromatases into estrogen,so its all different person to person... so estrogen side effects do happen quicker but the more test in the system the more excess testosterone there is to aromatise into estrogen...

Thanks for clearing that up bro, I can finally sleep peacefully tonight :lol:

Just one last question which you haven't answered yet:

Deadgoat wrote: So is 8 weeks of deca or equi really that pointless considering how long it'll take for you to start pct? If you took 8 weeks of injections does it not make sense that you should expect 8 weeks of the substance constantly peaking a week apart in your in your bloodstream regardless of how long it takes to kick in?
So starting PCT 7 weeks after the last shot of a 8 week deca cycle might actually be the pointless part

I kept thinking of the "6-8 weeks is too short, you should do it for at least 13 weeks to get anything from it" type of responses we churn out on a regurlar basis here

look 6 weeks isn't too short for deca or equi,but as u can see by week 7 the substance has built up to a decent level, so running it for another 5 weeks at that dosage thats built up will give you decent results...u can run them for 5 weeks if you like but it does take a while for the results to start showing and recovery to become quicker..

Shot, case closed unless anyone else has anything to add

Narf.

00pump wrote: Narf.

Native American Rights Fund?

Not Another Retarded Friend?

DJ wrote: Not Another Retarded Friend?

:lol:

DJ wrote:

Deadgoat wrote:

DJ wrote: yes after 30days your test levels will be at about 1000mg (peak concentration) so working on that you would need to wait 29days to get your test levels down to less than 60mg
nope. if you are using 300mg of test enanthate a week for 10 weeks, you will get to a point that you wont get any more in the system unless you up your dosage. so by day 15 u are nearly at your maximum dosage, by day 64 you have hit maximum build up of 599mg. so by day 71 when you take your last shot you have got 599.8mg in the system, so for it to drop down to 60mg in the system its gonna take roughly 30 days (3 x the half life of 10 days)

so why pin every week ie 7days instead of halflife if by day 71 results in recovery n devopment will b same?
sorry for adding a dorf question to this topic