BCAAs 30g/day

I'm about to start with my bulk in 2 weeks time. Besides protein, I've been considering addings BCAAs to the mix:

- 15g/day, or
- 30g/day

Has anyone used 30g/day or 15g/day, and noticed any results (strength, mass, some fat loss) above from that gained from protein alone?

I plan on training 5x per week, and dosing the BCAAs equally 1-hr pre-workout, intra-workout and immediately post-workout.

If you have good natural protein sources in your diet there isnt really a need for that.

But, i add it anyway. The way you suggested is ok. Read some articles stating how important they are post workout and then some which state pre/during is important - so i just chuck them in every shake.

Hi stillgrowing (nice nick!)
BCAA's are important, yes, but I think there is a maximum to what makes sense. You have 3 servings within a let's say 2.5-3 hr periode right?
15gr should be fine, even though, if you wanna become really technical you could consider the duration, intnesity and muscle group trained as well. I.e.: more BCAA for higher intensity, longer session and bigger muscle groups (lower body, e.g. legs) and the amount of muscle damage you caused ...
Which product you takin' ? Ever tried PeptoPro ? I like that stuff, not just BCAA, but the whole spectrum of aminos, just as very small pieces which don't require ony diegestion = super fast absorbtion .... I can really feel the difference in recovery with that stuff

Hey, I am using upwards of 30g BCAA's a day and I find that it helps a lot with recovery and staying anabolic. Cause of food allergies I cant drink shakes so I get all my protein from my whole foods and then add BCAA's with each meal, pre, intra and post workout each day. Most definitely my most important supp.

How do you people consume your BCAA's?
Mine does not disolve in water and it is very bitter. :X

@Cirus
l-leucine does not dissolve in water ... so it means you hav the real deal ... most aminos are bitter by nature ... :S
add some flavoured short carbs to it (e.g. energade) that helps a bit
Cheers, Dina

I chuck 20g of BCAA's in my 2L water bottle and shake it around, leave it in the fridge a while and then consume through out the day, no problems with dissolving etc.

Branch chain amino acids (Leuine, Isolucine, and Valine) should not dissolve in water buddy. They are three of the most hydrophobic amino acids out there.

Then I dont know cause I bought it from LSJ and they do dissolve, not instantly but in an hour or so it has dissolved?

hydrophobic or not, I tried to dissolve them today and it worked.

Like missiondh said, it takes a while.

I used about 5g in 250ml cold water and shaked it. It looked like about 1/3 wont dissolve. After an hour or so there was no more BCAA's visible.

@ inja
Where did you get the info that they are "of the most hydrophobic amino acids out there" ?

Either it dissolves or we have fake BCAAs.

Leave it in the fridge for 2-3 hours and it should dissolve completely. You can also try mixing it with sugar-free mix (sweeto)

We got that.

Game is not sugarfree?

Cirus wrote:

@ inja
Where did you get the info that they are "of the most hydrophobic amino acids out there" ?

I did not get this information from anywhere. It's just general knowledge bud, the type of stuff you cover in school.

Every amino acid has the basic structure
NH3+ - CH(R) - COO-

The side chain (R) is what defines each amino acid.
Arginine, Asparagine, Aspartate, Glutamate, Glutamine, Histidine, Lycine, Serine, Threonine, and Tyrosine all have polar hydrophilic side chains.
Alanine, Cysteine, Glycine, Leucine, Isoleucine, Methionine, Phenylalanine, Proline, Tryptophan, and Valine all have non-polar hydrophobic side chains.
In the case of Alanine and Glycine this is a single hydrogenated carbon or hydrogen respectively. Cysteine and Methionine both have polar sulphur in their side chains, While Histidine has the imidazole ring.

This all leaves Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine as some of the most hydrophobic amino acids out there...

The saturating concentration of leucine with constant mixing is about 10g/L at 25C, and 7.5g/L at 4C (fridge). Without the constant mixing some of the BCAA's that appear to dissolve are really coating the mixing vessel in a thin, invisible film...

I just put the stuff in my mouth, add water and swallow. It's quick and painless. I do this with everything from a.a.'s and creatine, to whey protein.

@ inja
I see.

So even though it is hydrophobic amino acids they still do dissolve.
So according to your figures I was correct that 5g of BCAAs would dissolve in 250ml if the leucine, isoleucine and valine are mixed in a 1:3 ratio.

Could you please explain "polar hydrophilic", "non-polar hydrophobic", but when it comes to: "Casein is a largely hydrophobic protein but has a large polar end..."

"I did not get this information from anywhere. It's just general knowledge bud, the type of stuff you cover in school." --> LOL, can I safely deduce from this statement that you did not go to an public school? I'm sure they don't cover this in great detail.

Thank you for your detailed replies.

Cirus wrote:

So even though it is hydrophobic amino acids they still do dissolve.
So according to your figures I was correct that 5g of BCAAs would dissolve in 250ml if the leucine, isoleucine and valine are mixed in a 1:3 ratio.

No not quite, since leucine, isoleucine, and valine have simlar side chains and thus a similar ability to dissolve in water I simply used Leucine as a representative of total BCAA content.

Could you please explain "polar hydrophilic", "non-polar hydrophobic", but when it comes to: "Casein is a largely hydrophobic protein but has a large polar end..."

Chemistry 101
Elements like nitrogen and oxygen are largely electronegative and pull electrons. When bound to hydorgens like in the case of a hydroxyl (-OH) group, they pull the electron away from the hydrogen making it more of a bound proton than a bound hydrogen.
This partial polarisation of charge is what allows compounds containing nitrogens and oxygens to associate with water. They form strong bonds known as hydrogen bonds with the water, allowing them to dissolve.

Alkyl chains like those present in fats are just long strings of hydrocarbons. Saturated alkyl chains are very neutral in charge (non-polarised) and thus do not associate in this manner with water. Rather the group with each other and exclude water (the hydorphobic effect). This is why oil separates from water.

In the case of casein, a large portion of the protein is made up of amino acids that contain hydrophobic amino acids. That is to say it is composed of amino acids that have an alkyl, hydrophobic side chain. Thus casein groups with each other in micelles With the hydrophobic portion excluded from the water and the hydrophilic portion exposed to the water. This hydrophilic region of the protein is made up of a larger number of amino acids that are acidic (glutamate and aspartate). That is to say their side chains contain the carboxyl group (-COOH) that makes a molecule an acid. These acidic regions are negatively charged and can thus associate with positive like those of metal ions (eg: calcium in the form Ca2+)

"I did not get this information from anywhere. It's just general knowledge bud, the type of stuff you cover in school." --> LOL, can I safely deduce from this statement that you did not go to an public school? I'm sure they don't cover this in great detail.

I went to a public shool...

Thank you for your detailed replies.

I try...

Thanks Inja, you just reminded me why i hated B.Eng first year so much! Chemistry 101!!!

:laugh:
Hated chem like hell! But Biochem... That's a different story! But you can't understand the one without the other...

Besides, chem knowlegde help make muscle big boom boom