Need Pro Advice for Supps!

Hy all.

My size is 1.80, weight currently 90kg. BF: approx 11-17%. Age 26.
I have been training alot lately to shed my last pounds. I have been training on and off for about 5 years now, its only 2010 that I made it constant for 5months and back then (2001) one full year.I have been going form 110 to 90kg in 4 months, using weight and cardio (HIIT and swimming). My aim was simply to reach a competition BF% as soon as possible. I eat 6-7times daily.
I train 6 times a week sometimes 3 times a day. Weights - then HIIT then Duration swimming. I was wondering what are the best combination for Supplements I can get to reach my one digit BF%? My Meals are ratiod at 50% Protein, 30% Fats, 20% Carbs. I did use USN Crap which helped for approx. 3 and a half days and did almost nothing and Biogen Phenadrine Xtreme which helped quite a bit. I dont want to jump on the Juice just yet, maybe in a Year and a half (!). Although following this forum for quite some time I believe someone knowledgable can help me out with the following info:

1. Is clen leagal and is it advised for me to reach a one digit BF%?
2. If not, what mix of Extreme Fatburners can be advised to get extra ripped that aren't on the Forums List of 'Bogus Supps'?
3. I am so confused with the Supply of FBrnrs these days that I can barely keep track of what realy, REALY, REALLY WORKS in the case of Supps.!!! What stack is recommended that anyone has tried and tested?

I just need that extra to shed the last stubborn pounds. Any help will be highly appreciated and great big thanks in advance.

Joey

Post your diet champ, meal for meal, gram for gram. We'll take it from there.

My Meals are three phase:
About 2500 calorie Baseline are most my meals (2-3times a week, mostly meals are layed out at this caloric count):

Meal #1
Food Item Cal Pro (g) Carb (g) Fat (g)
shredded wheat cereal 1.5 cups
216 5.4 50.1 2.1
Fat free ("super skim") milk 2 cups
200 20 28 0
grapefruit 1/2 large
46 0.6 11.9 0.1
Meal #1 Subtotals:
462 26 90 2.2

Meal #2
Food Item Cal Pro (g) Carb (g) Fat (g)
oatmeal, quaker oats 2/3 cup
200 10 36 4
egg whites (scrambled-4)
68 14 1.8 0
egg, whole (scrambled-1)
75 6.3 0.6 5
banana 1 medium
105 1.2 26.7 0.6
Meal #2 subtotals:
448 31.5 65.1 9.6

Meal #3
Food Item Cal Pro (g) Carb (g) Fat (g)
brown rice 1 cup
154 4 35 0
chicken breast
196 35.1 0 5.1
broccoli 1 cup
46 4.6 8.6 0.4
meal #3 subtotals:
396 43.7 43.6 5.5

Meal #4
Food Item Cal Pro (g) Carb (g) Fat (g)
Salmon
206 28.8 0 5.8
green beans
50 2 12 0
Baked potato
157 3.3 36.7 0.2
meal #4 subtotals:
413 34.1 48.7 6

Meal #5
Food Item Cal Pro (g) Carb (g) Fat (g)
beef, lean sirlion
286 43 0 11.3
asparagus 10 spears
40 4 6 0
Rice, Wild
166 6.5 35 0.6
meal #5 subtotals:
492 53.5 41 11.9

Meal #6
Food Item Cal Pro (g) Carb (g) Fat (g)
tuna, water packed
120 26 0 1
light italian dressing 3 tbsp
12 0 3 0
Large mixed green salad 2.0 cups
40 0 10 0
pita, whole wheat 1 pita
170 6 35 2
meal #6 subtotals:
342 32 48 3

Meals Phase 2:

This is my cheat day where I go every 5th Day. I eat a pizza and quite some fatty food to get my Leptin Hormones Skyrocketing for the whole day. I eat caloric-high foods spread out through the day, any food to get my Leptin as high as possible.

Meal Phase 3:

I fast the whole day (sometimes two days in a row) after the cheat day supplementing with BCAA’s to protect my muscles. Doing Lactic Acid intense workouts early in the morning, then HIIT in the afternoon and 30min constant cardio. Obviously today since my Leptin Levels are high my body is more deprived to burn fat and can catabolt it by doing solid workouts.

Now I just wanna know how can I get the last edge? To shred because I believe I am about to hit a plateau... :woohoo:

Any great supp. ideas?

P.S. I tried to 'tab' them to give a chart but the forum doesn't let me!

u fast after a cheat day? thats the stupidest thing in the world i've ever heard...by boosting leptin u are also boosting thyroid levels,increasing metabolic rate,now if u are increasing metabolic rate and not eating anything then u are going to to be eating up into your muscle...after a high carb day u go back to normal eating bud, u dont fast...also BTW fats have no affect on leptin levels what so ever..carbs yes,fats and protein no cos carbs replenish glycogen,and when the glycogen levels are over compensated the bodies leptin levels rise....


and just btw,u need to honestly start weighting your food,cups and measures and a medium banana wont cut it,u are under eating protein and over eating carbs and having carbs to late in the day...how can u say a baked potato is 36g of carbs if u are not weighing it? is the potato the size of a golf ball or the size of a brick... u need to weigh your food out gram for gram,also your 1 chicken breast u are having,is it from a chicken the size of a parrot or a chicken the size of a turkey,if u are not weighing out your food u are wasting your time.

DJ wrote:

u fast after a cheat day? thats the stupidest thing in the world i've ever heard...by boosting leptin u are also boosting thyroid levels,increasing metabolic rate,now if u are increasing metabolic rate and not eating anything then u are going to to be eating up into your muscle.

Fasting is an excellent way to burn fat, however fasting should be done before a cheat day not after. He won't burn any muscle as his glycogen stores will be full. Which means that fat burning will be slowed as well. The increased thyroid will just mean he'll burn through his glycogen stores quicker. Fasting is extremely protein sparing, it causes GH to skyrocket (burns fat, preserves muscle). Check out the book Eat,Stop,Eat by Brad Pilon for the merits of intermittent fasting.

Does fasting not halt the metabolism? How can that be good in the whole burning fat keeping the muscle scenario

well u see if he is dropping carbs and depleting glycogen stores before a cheat day he wouldnt really need to be fasting,he could the day before a cheat day do a zero carb day but i wouldnt go on a zero calorie day,keep the daily calories the same before the cheat but from protein and fats and do depletion work outs,then refeed post depletion day with plenty carbs.... i wouldnt suggest fasting to anyone and im sure no BB guru would suggest that either...

i think there are many bodybuilders and nutrition gurus that would rather miss a training session or cardio session than miss a meal to be honest...so going a whole day with out meals would just create a massive defecit causing leptin levels to drop even faster...i mean in order to keep your metabolism running it needs to be fed calories..

DJ wrote:

well u see if he is dropping carbs and depleting glycogen stores before a cheat day he wouldnt really need to be fasting,he could the day before a cheat day do a zero carb day but i wouldnt go on a zero calorie day.

Even on a zero carb diet, as long as you are having protein you will replenish glycogen to a certain degree.

www.medbio.info/Horn/PDF%20files/liver%20glycogen%20exp.pdf

Geez, okay thanks DJ & Big Dave. I did suspect to loose sum muscle, which I actually did but I am so amped to get shredded that I basically gathered advice whereever I could... but thanks for correcting me then. I guess the trainers at VA arent that good afterall hm (?).
I was never a big cardio fan but I do it to get in shape and I guess that explains that my weight training has suffered. Well nevertheless, pls help me out then. If I continue my normal routine with eating without the fasting, what stack could be recommended to get me shredded? How else if not a cal deficiet???

I was about to try a clen cycle:
1tab 3x a day for 2 weeks
then bridge with ECA HEAT for 2 weeks
then continue with Clen 1tab 3x a day for 2 weeks
then bridge again.....

or is it maybe better to simply use Animal Cuts with another FBrnr combined, I am all up for advice. And yes, I know that I have to measure my food sources, I just didnt add all the exact weights, dimensions etc.as mentiond. I work with a scale and a food appendix (for the general cals).

But again, great thanks for putting me straight and sorting me out! I am staring to love this forum...

Joey wrote:

Geez, okay thanks DJ & Big Dave. I did suspect to loose sum muscle, which I actually did but I am so amped to get shredded that I basically gathered advice whereever I could... but thanks for correcting me then. I guess the trainers at VA arent that good afterall hm (?).
I was never a big cardio fan but I do it to get in shape and I guess that explains that my weight training has suffered. Well nevertheless, pls help me out then. If I continue my normal routine with eating without the fasting, what stack could be recommended to get me shredded? How else if not a cal deficiet???

I was about to try a clen cycle:
1tab 3x a day for 2 weeks
then bridge with ECA HEAT for 2 weeks
then continue with Clen 1tab 3x a day for 2 weeks
then bridge again.....

or is it maybe better to simply use Animal Cuts with another FBrnr combined, I am all up for advice. And yes, I know that I have to measure my food sources, I just didnt add all the exact weights, dimensions etc.as mentiond. I work with a scale and a food appendix (for the general cals).

But again, great thanks for putting me straight and sorting me out! I am staring to love this forum...

Forget about the fat burners for now, STOP all cardio as well.

Get on the Palumbo Cutting Diet (ketogenic diet for bodybuilders),(1-1.5g/lbs of protein, 0.5g/lbs of fat,max 40g carbs/day). Do a search it's all over the net.

When you plateau on this diet, introduce some LISS cardio, when you stall on that add some more cardio, then consider fat burners at a low dosage, when you stall on that increase the dosage etc.

Sorry for the type-oh i ment starting not staring :blink: and here are my measurements:

chicken,rice,tuna & salmon: 114gr.
Beans & baked potatoe: 170gr.
Beef:142gr.

Thanks again in advance

Okay awesome. Did read up on ketonic diets alot. Never heard of the LISS ????? I guess it is in the forum somewhere.

Joey wrote:

Okay awesome. Did read up on ketonic diets alot. Never heard of the LISS ????? I guess it is in the forum somewhere.

LISS is low intensity steady state cardio, keeping your heart rate below 120 bpm. Check out the palumbo diet it explains all this in detail.

he doesnt have to jump on to a keto diet,he just needs to switch his foods around and cycle carbs....simple as that in my opinion...u dont drastically need to change things like switching over to a keto diet,u just need to modify the one u are on for a bit,if things then dont change then switch over to keto diet... and i still think that the palumbo diet doesnt have enough caloires in it.... i would start with the fats at a higher level and when things start to slow down then adjust the fat content in the diet...i like the layout of the palumbo diet as in the meal plan its just the quantities i find seem to be a bit low and that has taken some flack from other guys on other forums....just my opinion though

Okay thanks again guys. I've learned quite a bit today. This diet is posted all over the web, as mentioned. I will try to adapt to the Palumbo diet latest by Friday. The Oil intace on these diets seem quite high tough, even when mostly Omega based. Just another one, when on this diet is it advised to do the LISS directly after the weight workout or should I pospone the LISS to a later Part of the day?
Normaly I would do my weights in the mid-eve like btw. 15:00 and 17:00 followed by the cardio at 20:00 or does timing not matter that much in this paticular instance? Can I do the LISS directly after my weights or do you recommend it at a later stage of the day? :dry:

Joey hope you are reading as much as you can. haha.
Like the guys said if you get on diet leave all cardio. do your weights. Until you see that the fat burning gets sluggish then start with LISS, if the fat burning gets sluggish again, Increase duration, NOT GOING OVER 120 you dont want to burn into the muscle and if still halted get a fatburner like Clen or reverject

Awesome !!! Okay will try this new diet out. I guess I am a bit confused since I went through so many forums today where everybody suggested to to not less then 20min LISS cardio. But as you guys said, keep it for the weights at the mo.!
Cool stuff. Thanks alot and c u guys around in the Forum. Will start hanging out here a lot more!

Joey wrote:

Awesome !!! Okay will try this new diet out. I guess I am a bit confused since I went through so many forums today where everybody suggested to to not less then 20min LISS cardio. But as you guys said, keep it for the weights at the mo.!
Cool stuff. Thanks alot and c u guys around in the Forum. Will start hanging out here a lot more!

Sweet bro, Remember keep reading and researching hahaha and if you struggle with diet pop DJ a mail at contact us for a diet we works out diets for 60% of the guys on the forum with awesome results. He does charge but it is really worth it

Joey wrote:

Just another one, when on this diet is it advised to do the LISS directly after the weight workout or should I pospone the LISS to a later Part of the day?

Dave Palumbo : "The best time for cardio is first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. The second best time is post workout. The reason is that your glycogen stores are lowest when depleted. This results in the most utilization of stored bodyfat."

Spend some time reading the "Past Q&A's with Dave Palumbo" thread on the forums at rxmuscle.com (Palumbo's website). This question and other common questions relating to his diet have already been answered there.

forums.rxmuscle.com/showthread.php?t=201

You have to register to view this section (it's free).

Thanks man. Read the tread. It does explain a ton! Great referral.