vitargo

  • ice-rip
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07 Jan 2011 14:31 #58888 by ice-rip
vitargo was created by ice-rip
is vitargo really worth the bucks. i mean i am currently using game sports drink which is a dextrose/glucose and malto combo for my pwo shake. vitargo costs about five times more.

the claim is that it empties the gut 80% faster and no bloat etc.

who has used it and is it really worth it. i am looking at the sps vitargo

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  • spike
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07 Jan 2011 20:51 #58916 by spike
Replied by spike on topic vitargo
The squirrel, master of diets, will tell you not to waste your bucks. Dextrose is good enough to replenish glycogen and provide the necessary insulin spike

Um, but im scared of needles...

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  • ice-rip
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08 Jan 2011 09:20 #58923 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
spike for an oke of my weight at 106kg how much would i need pwo

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  • vega5
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08 Jan 2011 09:39 #58924 by vega5
Replied by vega5 on topic vitargo

ice-rip wrote: spike for an oke of my weight at 106kg how much would i need pwo

Around 60g would be sweet. I'm personally happy with Energade. Dextrose doesn't graft that lekker with my system so I had to look for an alternative.

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  • ice-rip
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08 Jan 2011 10:58 #58925 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
how about if i take 20g and have a meal conraining carbs for 40g an hour later

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  • Deadgoat
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08 Jan 2011 11:03 #58926 by Deadgoat
Replied by Deadgoat on topic vitargo

ice-rip wrote: how about if i take 20g and have a meal conraining carbs for 40g an hour later


not sure if an hour later still counts as pwo, I think the window closes after 20 min. So ideally you'd like to replenish glycogen levels in your muscle with 60g of simple carbs before your body resorts to using protein instead

Sorry guys Apparently it is true, cause its happened to certain people already, so I’m not taking any chances !!
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  • vega5
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08 Jan 2011 11:06 #58927 by vega5
Replied by vega5 on topic vitargo
I reckon not good enough because you need the insulin spike post workout, aim for minimum 40g. But you should anyway have a meal about an hour later containing low GI carbs.

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  • jackrabbit1
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08 Jan 2011 11:32 #58928 by jackrabbit1
Replied by jackrabbit1 on topic vitargo
Energade is cheap, nice ice cold and effective.

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  • spike
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08 Jan 2011 11:47 #58929 by spike
Replied by spike on topic vitargo
Well current research has shown that the post workout window to replenish glycogen actually lasts for a number of hours, this is why a good high carb meal after your workout and PWO is still beneficial, however this meal will consist of more complex cartbs and as such will not cause that insulin spike that helps to draw other nutrients, in particular protein, into the muscle cells.
Thats why we use the simple sugars post workout, dextrose being one of the easiest and cheapest. I usually take 60g of dextrose (proven to effectively spike insulin levels) and 50g of whey (to provide those necessary amino's post workout). BCAA's can also be used here due to their simplification and quick absorbtion.
If i dont happen to have dextrose i just have a 500ml coke, as this has approx the same amount of sugars (+-60g).

Um, but im scared of needles...

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  • ice-rip
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08 Jan 2011 13:20 #58931 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
great advice there guys

so you would have this carb meal after your pwo shake even if its 9pm.

and spike when u say dextrose do u mean the glucose u buy in a pharmacy

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  • Fakey_AK
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08 Jan 2011 14:35 #58932 by Fakey_AK
Replied by Fakey_AK on topic vitargo

ice-rip wrote: great advice there guys

so you would have this carb meal after your pwo shake even if its 9pm.

and spike when u say dextrose do u mean the glucose u buy in a pharmacy


Dextrose - glucose, basicly the samething

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  • ice-rip
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08 Jan 2011 14:43 #58933 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
yeah but where r u getting pure glucose/dext from

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  • Fakey_AK
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08 Jan 2011 14:45 #58934 by Fakey_AK
Replied by Fakey_AK on topic vitargo

ice-rip wrote: yeah but where r u getting pure glucose/dext from


www.basicsupplements.co.za

Plus that dextrose is alot cheaper compared to dischems glucose.

"The hardest lift of all, is your ass of the couch!"

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." - Samuel Johnson

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08 Jan 2011 15:40 #58935 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
that is cheap. will this work better than game

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27 Feb 2011 14:02 #61996 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
so i went out and got some vitargo yesterday. sps aftershock after i couldnt fing juggernaught.

vitargo is the absolute bomb for pwo. absolutely no bloat and it kicks dextrose ass for recovery. i am now using 40g of vitargo now in my pwo shake. before i bloat up terribly with just 10grams of dextrose. it is pricey though but for me wort every cent

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  • STUARTF
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27 Feb 2011 20:31 #62018 by STUARTF
Replied by STUARTF on topic vitargo

jackrabbit1 wrote: Energade is cheap, nice ice cold and effective.


JR, do you use the Energade Mega Load or just the regular concentrate?

"Do or do not, there is no try" - Yoda
"It's simple, if it jiggles, it's fat."- Arnold Schwarzenegger

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  • vega5
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28 Feb 2011 04:44 #62021 by vega5
Replied by vega5 on topic vitargo

STUARTF wrote:

jackrabbit1 wrote: Energade is cheap, nice ice cold and effective.


JR, do you use the Energade Mega Load or just the regular concentrate?

Mega load is just double concentrated so you basically use half of what you would have with the normal one. I just use the normal one because the Mega Load is a marketing stunt.

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  • ice-rip
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03 Mar 2011 07:35 #62373 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
just some more feedback on the vitargo.

whilst the vitargo is far superior imo to dextrose in regards to recovery and bloating, i do notice that having large servings of vitargo (40grams) at around 9pm blunts fat loss.

i have been doing some research and am coming to the conclusion that this whole insulin spike thing pwo is just supplement companies trying to sell product. i want to compare vitargo now which i still believe is better than dextrose to oats pwo. also the sites i have searched on state that high insulin levels do nothing for protein synthesis and actually blunt gh especially when its so close to bedtime.

i mean arnold and the likes never had vitargo and hydrolysed whey etc and they grew like houses. think im gonna save my money and do things the old fashion way and thats eat whole food pwo as carbs source. will still keep the isopro though and maybe use the vitargo when i train in the morning to finish it off

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  • STUARTF
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03 Mar 2011 08:00 #62377 by STUARTF
Replied by STUARTF on topic vitargo
I agree, I think keeping it simple is better. There are shakes now to get up in the morning, pre-workout, intra-workout, post-workout, before bedtime... plus all the vitamins, minerals, aminos, omegas etc. Before you know it you've spent R3000 on on this stuff and that's excluding all the money for juice. I think so much of it is unnecessary and can be replaced with good nutrition from natural carb/protein sources.

"Do or do not, there is no try" - Yoda
"It's simple, if it jiggles, it's fat."- Arnold Schwarzenegger

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  • Mr_SA
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03 Mar 2011 08:59 #62383 by Mr_SA
Replied by Mr_SA on topic vitargo
Couldnt agree more with you StuartF...

I have been checking what i spend on supplements, food etc etc lately, and WOW!! Couldnt actually believe the amount.

The problem is every time you go to dischem... you think "Well, its only R70 for this Multivitamin, R200 for these fish oils, R80 for Vit C tabs etc etc etc", and when you get to the till... BANG, it hits you how much you've spent.

Give it a shot, you're only TESTing it...

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03 Mar 2011 13:22 #62399 by Empire
Replied by Empire on topic vitargo

ice-rip wrote: just some more feedback on the vitargo.

whilst the vitargo is far superior imo to dextrose in regards to recovery and bloating, i do notice that having large servings of vitargo (40grams) at around 9pm blunts fat loss.

i have been doing some research and am coming to the conclusion that this whole insulin spike thing pwo is just supplement companies trying to sell product. i want to compare vitargo now which i still believe is better than dextrose to oats pwo. also the sites i have searched on state that high insulin levels do nothing for protein synthesis and actually blunt gh especially when its so close to bedtime.

i mean arnold and the likes never had vitargo and hydrolysed whey etc and they grew like houses. think im gonna save my money and do things the old fashion way and thats eat whole food pwo as carbs source. will still keep the isopro though and maybe use the vitargo when i train in the morning to finish it off



have u also seen the amount of gear they used and training and all the rest year round etc...

i think alot of your fat loss issue with using high gi things could be a case of the rest of the diet not being 100% metabolic slow down,insulin insensitivity, and whole load of factors...at the end of the day if u are taking in the right calories intake for fat loss then 40g of simple carbs shouldnt effect fat loss at all...yes u do want insulin levels to be low when dieting...but i know loads of guys that still use simple carbs right up to 6 days out of the show and come in shredded...its like u say that u are not going to burn fat if eating 2000 calories to maintain,u drop that to 1500 calories a day,and u have only carb u have in a day are simple carbs post work out wont make u shredded? thats not how it works bud.... i think u need to adjust the rest of the things in the diet and see where u are going wrong,200calories of carbs isnt gonna stop fat loss unless your diet,cardio or training isnt on point....

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  • ice-rip
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03 Mar 2011 14:46 #62410 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
thanks Dj. i honestly believe that the nutrional planner on the site which calculates daily caories is somewhat misleading. i mean for my height and weight etc to lose weight i need to eat around 2700cals a day with protein around 330g. i think thats too much and thats influenced by the activity level multipler.

i mean i followed most of the diet recommendations so my diet looks pretty good with only oats and brown rice as carb sources, olive oil, natural peanut butter and omega 3 fish oils and almonds as fat sources. protein only comes in the form of fillets, hake, and seldom steak.

i was eating 330g protein/day
160g carbs/ day
75g fat / day

2 days ago i dropped the protein down to 1g/pound of bodyweight which is around 230. i thought that by dropping the 100g of protein i would speed up my fat loss due to the 400 calories deficit and the 1gram per 1 pound weight rule would be sufficient to maintain muscle mass

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  • ice-rip
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09 Mar 2011 09:04 #62762 by ice-rip
Replied by ice-rip on topic vitargo
heres an interesting read from a ruputable source

Post-exercise insulin spiking has become standard practice in bodybuilding because of the perpetuation of hearsay, nothing more. It's a case of bro see, bro do - no critical thought, no questioning of why. As a result, many people believe that unless you consume a fast-acting liquid mix of [insert the latest hyped quickie carb & protein source], you won't achieve the walloping insulin spike supposedly necessary for recovery. But here's what everyone misses or chooses to ignore: the nutrient-mediated insulin elevation from food required to max out net anabolism is relatively minor. Insulin's ability to prevent muscle protein breakdown (even in the midst of ample amino acid availability via continuous infusion) is maximal at about 3-4 times the normal basal levels of insulin.

To reiterate, insulin's suppression of protein breakdown is maximal with modest elevations; even less than what's seen during normal feeding. As a matter of fact, a properly placed pre-exercise meal will keep insulin sufficiently elevated even after your training bout is over. To put things into perspective, a regular solid meal can elevate insulin anywhere from 4-8 times fasting levels depending on size, and keep it elevated for a few hours. As little as 6 g of essential amino acids plus 35 g sucrose taken immediately pre-exercise can keep insulin elevated to roughly 4 times fasting levels 1 hour after 40-50 minutes of resistance training. What do you think insulin levels would look like with a typical preworkout meal or shake containing at least as much carbs & double the protein?

Another little-known fact is that amino acids can stimulate protein synthesis without any additional insulin output beyond that caused on their own. I'm gonna assume at this point that everyone has some protein pre & postworkout, so this is yet another reason to nix the dex or WMS & go for a more nutritious carb source whenever possible.

As for the urgency of glycogen replenishment, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day, you have nothing to worry about. Typical weight training workouts are not glycogen-depleting. Not that this is of any concern in the first place for folks who don't skip their preworkout meal. Your preworkout carbs are being absorbed and put to use during the training bout, and in many cases, you're still absorbing your preworkout carbs even after the training bout is done. Even in the event of total glycogen depletion, complete resynthesis will occur within 24 hrs regardless of the presence of other macros ingested postworkout. This eliminates any urgent need for special lightning-fast carbs postworkout. Furthermore, those thinking the insulin spike is going to suddenly hurry up glycogen resynthesis are wrong because the first 30-60 minutes of glycogenesis is not an insulin-dependent process.

Again, the origin of the recommendation for quick carbs & insulin spiking for recovery is based on studies that were done on folks who trained to glycogen depletion (1.5-2 hrs continuous endurance work on the quads) in an overnight fasted state. This is an irrelevant, far-fetched scenario for most of us.

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