Push/pull split

What do you guys think about a push/pull split routine for mass? I've been doing the normal 4/5 day split with one body part per day. I'm keen on something new and am looking into a push/pull type routine (4 day split). The only setbacks I can think of is that it doesn't cater for one really being able to target specific lagging parts (I.e legs). Also, the volume is quite low (3 working sets per exercise?). Need some advice.

My view is that if you can recover quickly enough, push/pull splits are better than a normal split because u do a specific body part twice a week vs once in a traditional split routine.

One thing you should always focus on is heavy compound movements: squats, deads (normal, stiff legged), presses (flat, incline, shoulder), chin/ pull ups, rows, dips. Play around with rep and set ranges (3x5, 1x20, 3x8, 6x6, etc) and see what works for you wrt recovery and growth in each body part.

Post up that routine so that we can have a look.

Plus volume isn't that low if you do 3 sets per exercise. 3 sets per exercise, 3 exercises per major body part (quads, hammies, back, chest), 2 major body parts per workout, push & pull twice a week gives you 18 working sets per major body part

Ok sweet. I take no credit for the following I just copied and pasted it from some website (which I can't remember).

PUSH 1
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Incline barbell bench press 3 6-8 Forced reps on last set
Flat dumbbell bench press 3 8-12 Double drop set on last set
Barbell squat 3 10-15
Leg press 3 12-15 Double drop set on last set
Barbell shoulder press 3 6-8 Forced reps on last set
Lying triceps extensions 3 6-8 Superset with close-grip presses
Overhead dumbbell extensions 3 8-12 Forced reps on last set
Standing calf raises 3 20-25 Short rest periods

Pull 1
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Wide-grip chin-ups * 50 *As many as it takes to get to 50
Bent-over barbell rows 3 10-15
Lying leg curls 3 10-12 Slow, controlled negatives
Stiff-legged barbell deadlift 3 8
Alternate dumbbell curls 3 16 Drop set on last set
Barbell curls 3 8-10 Forced reps on last set
Reverse EZ-bar curls 3 10-12

Push 2
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Incline dumbbell press 3 8-12 Drop set on last set
Flat barbell press 3 6-8 Forced reps on last set
Leg extensions 3 15-20
Front barbell squat 3 12-15
Dumbbell shoulder press 3 8-10
Weighted dips (between benches) 3 10-12 Drop set by removing added weight
Cable pressdown 3 12-15 Drop set by removing added weight
Seated calf raises 3 25

Pull 2
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Cable pulldowns 3 12-15 Drop set on last set
Deadlifts 3 5-8
Seated leg curls 3 12-15
One-leg lying leg curls 3 8-10 Negatives
Incline dumbbell curls 3 8-12
Dumbbell hammer curls 3 10-12
Wrist curls 3 15-20 Superset with reverse wrist curls

Essentially this means training Mon/Tue/Thurs/Fri. I've been training for a while now and I think my body will be able to recover fast enough. I think the challenge will be with legs, and whether they're able to keep up. What do you guys think of this routine? What's missing is traps and for me (as I feel they're lagging) rear delts, so I'll have to add these in somewhere.

Witwolf wrote: Ok sweet. I take no credit for the following I just copied and pasted it from some website (which I can't remember).

PUSH 1 (I'd rather start with the Squats & Leg Press then move to the upper body exercises)
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Incline barbell bench press 3 6-8 Forced reps on last set
Flat dumbbell bench press 3 8-12 Double drop set on last set
Barbell squat 3 10-15
Leg press 3 12-15 Double drop set on last set
Barbell shoulder press 3 6-8 Forced reps on last set
Lying triceps extensions 3 6-8 Superset with close-grip presses
Overhead dumbbell extensions 3 8-12 Forced reps on last set
Standing calf raises 3 20-25 Short rest periods

Pull 1
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Wide-grip chin-ups * 50 *As many as it takes to get to 50 (I'd rather use shoulder width apart as too far apart just limits your range of motion & puts stress on shoulders)
Bent-over barbell rows 3 10-15 (This is gonna put lot of pressure on your lower back since you going to do SL deads afterwords. I'd rather do 1 arm DB row. Plus reps are quitte high..I'd rather go for 8 to 10 reps per set)
Lying leg curls 3 10-12 Slow, controlled negatives
Stiff-legged barbell deadlift 3 8 (First do the SL deads then leg curls --> rather do compound lifts first then isolation work)
Alternate dumbbell curls 3 16 Drop set on last set
Barbell curls 3 8-10 Forced reps on last set
Reverse EZ-bar curls 3 10-12

Push 2
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Incline dumbbell press 3 8-12 Drop set on last set
Flat barbell press 3 6-8 Forced reps on last set (for safety reasons, I'd rather do Flat barbell press then Incline DB press)
Leg extensions 3 15-20
Front barbell squat 3 12-15 (First do the squats then extensions --> rather do compound lifts first then isolation work)
Dumbbell shoulder press 3 8-10
Weighted dips (between benches) 3 10-12 Drop set by removing added weight
Cable pressdown 3 12-15 Drop set by removing added weight
Seated calf raises 3 25

Pull 2 (Not much back work here. I'd add in weighted Pull ups and cable rows)
Exercise Sets Reps Notes
Cable pulldowns 3 12-15 Drop set on last set (Start with DL's first)
Deadlifts 3 5-8
Seated leg curls 3 12-15
One-leg lying leg curls 3 8-10 Negatives
Incline dumbbell curls 3 8-12
Dumbbell hammer curls 3 10-12
Wrist curls 3 15-20 Superset with reverse wrist curls

Essentially this means training Mon/Tue/Thurs/Fri. I've been training for a while now and I think my body will be able to recover fast enough. I think the challenge will be with legs, and whether they're able to keep up. What do you guys think of this routine? What's missing is traps and for me (as I feel they're lagging) rear delts, so I'll have to add these in somewhere.

This seems like ALOT of volume for me..but please understand that this is coming from a guy who loves his 5x5 or 3x5 routines. But if you can recover in time, then go for it.

Personally, I'm also not a fan of drops sets/supersets/etc (because it messes with my recovery ability to much and I end up overtraining very quickly) and isolation exercises so if you start to feel like you aren't recovering fast enough look to cut those first.

If you concerned about legs not recovering fast enough, maybe cut out one/all of the legs curls in "Pull 2", leg extensions in "Push 2" (not good for your knees anyways) and maybe even leg presses in "Push 1" if you really struglling: Balls-to-hall Squats and DL's (in their various guises) can give you all the quad, hips and hammie work you could ever need.

I have to agree though. Not at my computer at the moment but ill work on sharpening up the routine and post it for some advice and feedback.

Isn't it supposed to be push/pull/legs?

For instance on push days do chest, triceps and shoulder press movements.
Pull days you do back, biceps and your flye movements for shoulders.
Normal leg days as usual.

I can imagine trying to squeeze legs in the already packed training style of only push and pull could be a hassle.
This is how I've always understood it. Saw an article about in in a FLEX magazine too once.

Cheers
KlitKat

KlitKat wrote: Isn't it supposed to be push/pull/legs?

For instance on push days do chest, triceps and shoulder press movements.
Pull days you do back, biceps and your flye movements for shoulders.
Normal leg days as usual.

I can imagine trying to squeeze legs in the already packed training style of only push and pull could be a hassle.
This is how I've always understood it. Saw an article about in in a FLEX magazine too once.

Cheers
KlitKat

That's just two different routines mate. Would I confuse you if I did a whole body workout, 3 times per week? See what I mean? Science backs the more inexperienced you are, the more muscle groups you can incorporate into a routine the better. For example a whole body routine performed once every 4 days. Then later perhaps move onto a 2-day split. And so on, experience and gains should help dictate your program. In no way should an newbie perform a 6-day bro-split, well he could but he would short changing himself.

Also, strong bump. Last post was from 2013. Digging up corpses bro.

Klitkat

Stop reviving 2 year old topics. Everything has changed over the last year or two so please respect my request.