Help needed with a powerlifting program

Hi all,

So over the last few years my training focus has moved from strict bodybuilding bro split to a "powerbuilding" routine.

My current programme is split according to my heavy compound lifts. I start every session with about half an hour spent on the power movement of the day, working up to my 3 rep max. Then I spend about half an hour being creative and having fun with auxiliary exercises for that muscle group, keeping reps between 8 and 12, with around 40 second breaks between sets. I give myself freedom here to mix up exercises, throw in supersets etc, go with what I feel, so every session is different.

Logic is to build my strength and obtain hypertrophy in one session.

Day 1: Bench / chest auxiliary
Day 2: Deadlift / back auxiliary
Day 3: Standing overhead press / delts and traps auxiliary
Day 4: Arms
Day 5: Squat / legs auxiliary

Problem is I'm finding this routine to be extremely taxing on ligaments, joints and smaller muscle. I'm admittedly bad at "building stremgth" as opposed to constantly "testing strength". I.e. I push to the limit every session.

I'd like to try a bit more of a structured approach to building my strength and size, but I don't know where to start. I don't know how to structure progression and deloading weeks. My research has given me options like the Cube Method, Starting Strength programme, strong lifts 5 x 5, Sheiko #29, etc.

I was hoping to get some of your views on what has worked for you, or people you know. My primary goal is always overall mass, but I love stremgth training and through experience find that stronger = bigger and my body seems to respond better (read: get bigger) to heavy weights between 4 and 6 reps.

I remember seeing something from Layne Norton where he speaks about strength and hypertrophy in one program.

Any input would be appreciated.

Iron Kobra.

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hey IK, i don't really have experience for training as a powerlifter but i have trained with a buddy who placed second last year.

When i trained with him he had a routine where we would do heavy weights at 5 reps then lighter weight at 12 reps. then up the weight again for 5 reps and then a lighter weight at 12 reps.
he would do 3 heavy and 3 light per exercise.

Not sure if this is anything that powerlifters usually do, but it seemed to make me feel stronger. could just have been placebo... or a case of me not knowing my strength and just being pushed a bit harder than i normally push myself.

Hey IronKobra,

No flaw in your thinking, I think many of us aspire to gain strength and size equally but fail in proper programming. Personally, every workout I do starts of with powerlifting style training. Hoping MA will chime in (being a highly respected member that has experience with powerlifting) but I want to give my thoughts in the meantime.

Excuse if I mentioning things you already know:
I think your unique challenge is the ligaments and joints issues, I honestly can't offer much advice here. How old are you? If I remember correctly you are in your 20's? If that is the case you really shouldn't be having so much trouble with joints and ligaments. One thing to keep in mind is that those get taxed a lot when your muscle strength develops unproportionally faster than the rest of you. IE only your muscle has fully adapted but the rest are lagging. I guess a fix for relief is to try MK2866 or low dose Deca (or even MK677). I mention this because you have developed extreme strength in your journey (reference to your other thread).

Ok, training regime. Are you going to compete in powerlifting at all?
The part where you said "building stremgth" as opposed to constantly "testing strength" is the big clue. You shouldn't be going for 1RM or even 3RM at every session. I'll quote a powerlifting coach who's name I can't remember (Messo Henselmans or Layne Norton probably), "Doing rep range strength work every week will give you the ability to do a bigger 1RM when you need to." So in other words, doing constant "tests" won't make you as strong as performing a rep based routine.

Starting Strength - you are way to advanced for this, it's going to turn you into Trex mode if you follow for too long. SS is great for beginners but I cringe at the thought of you going backwards doing this.
Strong Lifts 5 x 5 - Good option but your not going to start from the bottom. I don't like the weekly training variations, although it's suited well for dedicated powerlifters. If you do follow the principles loosely, you will adjust it to suite your needs better.
Cube method - Again, very powerlifting focused. So again you aren't going to be improving your body as a whole on a week-to-week basis, your lift that week will improve but as a holistically in 3 week cycles.
Sheiko - A better approach but still very powerlifting focused, not sure if it'll meet your hypertrophy demands.

The Layne Norton program you mentioned is called PHAT. See
below:



The major problem I find in programs is training frequency. You want to hit every muscle (group) twice per week, or as close as possible.

One creative solution is to vary workouts week-to-week between two regimes, like alternating powerlifting and hypertrophy. Say week 1 you do a 2-day split repeated once focusing on powerlifting, then week two you do a 2/3-day split focusing on hypertrophy. Then just repeat.
Eg:
Week 1
M: Upperbody power
T: Lowerbody power
Th: Upperbody power
F: Lowerbody power
Week 2
M: Push
T: Pull
W: Legs
F: Push
S: Pull
S: Legs

Hope it helps, I'm not giving you direct answers because I haven't cracked the code on the best all-round routine yet, and I gave a lot of opinions, but the facts I stated are true and tested rest assure. Hope I talked some sense and shed some light.

If you are interested in chemical help for your joints and ligaments healing and recovery.

Dylan Gemelli's Healing Stack

Cycle Week 1 - 12:
MK2866 12.5-50mg
MK677 25mg ED
LG4033 10mg ED

PCT 13-16:
MK677 25mg ED
Clomid 12.5-25mg ED

Wow Furk, appreciate your input as always bud. I like your systematic thinking.

Furk wrote: How old are you? If I remember correctly you are in your 20's? If that is the case you really shouldn't be having so much trouble with joints and ligaments.

I wish mate, I'm 33 this year. I must be said that the joint pain is more reference or description of location. I have no issues with knees, but my 'elbows' are extremely sore. I'm aware that it's actually the bicep insertion at the elbow, brachialis and specifically my brachioradialis that get so knotted up from the stress of heavy benching that causes the pain. I've been for dry needling to try relieve it and find if I wrap my elbows up tight with short knee wraps it helps.

Other problem areas are lower back after squatting heavy and rhomboid and trap spasms.

My point is I think at these heavy weights, it's mostly form adjustments I need to make as I've never had coaching. Wouldn't say my form is bad, but clearly there's improvements I need to make because I have recurring injuries around the joint areas.

You input is super bud, and spurred me to dig a little deeper with Norton. Have you seen his PH3 program? I found a great excel template that calculates the correct weights to be used based on your 1RM. Have a look and let me know what you think. It allows for multiple days training of the same groups per week and quite nicely incorporates power and hypertrophy. Broke into three main phases spanning 13 weeks. Here's a link to the template: www.dropbox.com/s/ibp3e6w9vzkrvc9/Ph3%20...04-7-2016).xlsx?dl=0

I'm definitely going to give this a try. Will start tomorrow and feedback my results as I go.

Cheers
IK


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Hi IK.

On my Test Prop cycle last year I did Layne's PHAT program had good results lagging body parts improved as did strength. So when I got going again thus year I continued on it and am going to do so until progress gets to slow

Cheers IK,

PH3 looks legit! Are you going to be able to do the BFR? I've seen studies and experiments done on it and results were promising.

Never had rhomboid and trap spasms, I'm going to start at the bottom and ask, are your salts adequate and balanced?

Looking forward to your feedback and progress on the program.

Furk wrote: Cheers IK,

PH3 looks legit! Are you going to be able to do the BFR? I've seen studies and experiments done on it and results were promising.

Never had rhomboid and trap spasms, I'm going to start at the bottom and ask, are your salts adequate and balanced?

Looking forward to your feedback and progress on the program.

Agreed Furk. PH3 looks promising. And my new adipowers arrived this morning, so I'm extra excited to get under the bar! Show me that dorsiflexion baby! (It's always been a problem for me. Hopefully the shoes are going to make a difference!)

Salts... I supplement with Himalayan Crystal salt before my workouts. Tip I got from Stan Efferding. Don't know much more than that. I've read one should be concerned with the ratio of sodium and potassium with regard to hard training but that has to do with water retention as I understand it. More than that I'm not too clued up on salts.

Never tried BFR training but I've read up and keen to give it a go. I looked around online this morning for quick release medical tourniquets but wasn't successful. Will have to visit the mall and see if I can get creative. The okes at VA are going to think I'm nuts. Haha.

Will load strength updates at the end of each block in the PH3 program. Keen to see what progress I can make!

IK


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IronKobra767 wrote: Agreed Furk. PH3 looks promising. And my new adipowers arrived this morning, so I'm extra excited to get under the bar! Show me that dorsiflexion baby! (It's always been a problem for me. Hopefully the shoes are going to make a difference!)

Oh man, nice! For me, I just remove my trainers when doing squats and deadlifts, it comes down to the same thing for your foot.

IronKobra767 wrote: Salts... I supplement with Himalayan Crystal salt before my workouts. Tip I got from Stan Efferding. Don't know much more than that. I've read one should be concerned with the ratio of sodium and potassium with regard to hard training but that has to do with water retention as I understand it. More than that I'm not too clued up on salts.

Mate I eat pink Himalayan on my food. Yeah the ratios are what’s important. Much like we supplement with Omega-3 but don’t need -6 and -9 supplemented because we get them anyway in unhealthy amounts in modern food. The same way with salts, sodium is soooo abundant, it’s the others that need special attention. Manganese, potassium, magnesium, calcium, chlorine, phosphate. I've found one very good product that covers all your bases, I'll take a photo of it next time I'm in Dischem.

IronKobra767 wrote: Never tried BFR training but I've read up and keen to give it a go. I looked around online this morning for quick release medical tourniquets but wasn't successful. Will have to visit the mall and see if I can get creative. The okes at VA are going to think I'm nuts. Haha.

Let me tell you, if you are a Aushwitz-mode or a hambeast and do something weird in the gym, people will think you aren’t in shape because you are doing nonsensical exercises. But if you are big/ in good shape and you do something that looks weird, the other people will think you know something they don’t (except for oxygen restriction masks, you become a douche the moment you put it on). Like I said, I remove shoes when doing diddys and skwats, also I do unconventional trap training, but I have huge traps to back it up.

IK you are missing an essential building block to power lifting which is core exercises. You need to do specific core exercises for each of the big three compound lifts. If you want to take it three levels higher it's is not a luxury it's non-negotiable. In addition your form and thought process must change from hypertrophy to power lifting. I await your questions.

Don't sodium load just before gym man. You need to sodium load every meal. You're abusing creatine yeah?

Pyroclasm wrote: IK you are missing an essential building block to power lifting which is core exercises. You need to do specific core exercises for each of the big three compound lifts. If you want to take it three levels higher it's is not a luxury it's non-negotiable. In addition your form and thought process must change from hypertrophy to power lifting. I await your questions.

Pyro, thanks bud and this has really intrigued me. Honestly, I believe my constant pains and injuries are coming from a core that isn't strong enough to manage the heavy weights, even though the larger muscles are.

Please enlighten me.... I do zero core training, having believed that if I focus on correct breathing and bracing during heavy lifts I'm sufficiently strengthening my core.

Things like planking, knee raises etc seem like a waste of time when I'm looking to go for that 200kg squat.

Please advise bro, I'd appreciate it. What type of core exercises should I incorporate and how often.

In the meantime I'll look to Google for core work that is specific to the big three, but I look forward to your input.

IK

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Pyroclasm wrote: Don't sodium load just before gym man. You need to sodium load every meal. You're abusing creatine yeah?

I don't add salt to any other meals. Just a loaded tea spoon of pink Himalayan along with creatine before my workouts.

I wouldn't say abuse creatine no, two scoops of USN creatine transport system before workouts. Should I be increasing this?

Also, because I drink all my meals, I don't drink much clean water during the day. I know I should improve in this area, but I'm guessing all the sodium and creatine you're proposing will be for naught if I'm not downing water constantly?

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Etc.

Thanks for the input @Pyro

Quick update:

@Furk, PH3 is fucking me up wholesale. Haha. Very humbling. I've never squatted / benched / deadlifted at this volume so frequently, so it has been killer. Absolutely loving it though, and I'm already seeing a change in my physique.

The BFR training is insane bro. I've read up on it plenty, but never tried it. The pump in my biceps was so intense, I couldn't touch my chin or sternum when showering afterwards. And its a damn painful pump too. The lighter weight is great for the elbow issues I've been having.

Overall I'm really happy with this program so far. Its going to take my body a few weeks to adapt to the volume, but that change is exactly what I've been looking for.

I'm going to have to take extra steps and make effort to sort out my hyperlordosis though. The assistance exercises pyro lead me to is going to help strengthen my upper hams / glutes and lower abs to get my pelvis into a better position for squatting. Hopefully this will keep the lower back pain I get everytime I squat at bay - well, it needs to, considering how often I'm getting under the bar to squat. I realised I had it wrong and was trying to focus on strengthening the lower back, or push my lower back out when squatting to force a more neutral position. But the problem has been that my glutes, hams, lower abs are just not firing when I squat, so a great cue for me has been to just squeeze my glutes like there's no tomorrow before I descend and hold that tension throughout the movement. It seems be helping prevent my lower back from taking more of the load than it should be.

IK