Steroids VS Supps, morally different?

Hey guys,

I'm pretty annoyed so please excuse my venting.

A friend of mine has discovered that I have used juice and is giving me a very hard time about it. Calling me morally devoid and basically a sellout as the results I have gotten have not come from honest hard work but rather "cheating".

What's most annoying is that while I was on cycle and since my cycle I worked harder than ever. I do not compete in crossfit, nor MMA but merely do the training for my own benefit in order to look and feel good, so IMO there is no "cheating". No one else is being affected by my choice to use aas.

This same friend however buys mountains of Supplements every month. MuscleTech, ON, Animal, you name it. He even has a HGH booster.

Now my question is, how is using Supplements ,that claim to do the same thing as steroids, morally different to actually using juice?????

Yes I know that these supplements can be bought openly and are not banned like steroids, but rest assured, if they actually did give the results that they claim to give THEY WOULD BE BANNNED!!!

The only difference in my opinion is that the "products" I am taking actually do what they claim to do.

So "MORALLY" I should probably klap him on the back of the head for buying kak

I don't know guys, I know that there is a major stigma attached to using steroids, but unless you are competing I really can't see an issue with it AT ALL.

For the most part I actually don't care what people think, but it is a bit more sensitive when a good friend is involved.

Whinny rant over :blush:

Views?
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Similar experiences?

Well like you said it's only cheating if comparing to someone else! And this is most likely what your friend is doing, he sees himself doing things more naturally and not gaining as much as you on the roids! So yes a roid user compared to a natty is cheating! You grow faster, you are stronger, recover beter the list goes on!

Your friend is most likely pissed because he now knows he can't keep up with you.

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ninjajuice wrote: Hey guys,

I'm pretty annoyed so please excuse my venting.

A friend of mine has discovered that I have used juice and is giving me a very hard time about it. Calling me morally devoid and basically a sellout as the results I have gotten have not come from honest hard work but rather "cheating".

What's most annoying is that while I was on cycle and since my cycle I worked harder than ever. I do not compete in crossfit, nor MMA but merely do the training for my own benefit in order to look and feel good, so IMO there is no "cheating". No one else is being affected by my choice to use aas.

This same friend however buys mountains of Supplements every month. MuscleTech, ON, Animal, you name it. He even has a HGH booster.

Now my question is, how is using Supplements ,that claim to do the same thing as steroids, morally different to actually using juice?????

Yes I know that these supplements can be bought openly and are not banned like steroids, but rest assured, if they actually did give the results that they claim to give THEY WOULD BE BANNNED!!!

The only difference in my opinion is that the "products" I am taking actually do what they claim to do.

So "MORALLY" I should probably klap him on the back of the head for buying kak

I don't know guys, I know that there is a major stigma attached to using steroids, but unless you are competing I really can't see an issue with it AT ALL.

For the most part I actually don't care what people think, but it is a bit more sensitive when a good friend is involved.

Whinny rant over :blush:

Views?
Opinions?
Similar experiences?

To be honest, I believe that your friend either does not understand AAS and/or is fearful of how it is going to change your physique for the better. A lot of layman out there seriously believe that once you inject steroids (yes, they don't even differentiate between the various compounds) that this instantly converts an individual from their current state to a body-builder/superhero overnight. They will negate the fact that AAS will do absolutely nothing for you unless you train as hard, if not harder, than you ever trained before; and ate as strict as humanly possible. They really view as some miracle solution that just gets injected into your body and does all the work for you.

Then you also get those who understand all of this, but would play the moral card out of pure fear and jealously of what the correct usage of AAS can do for their peers. They want to be judgemental of you because of the sacrifices you make and want to make it seem as if what you have you dont deserve. in these cases, they are trying to make excuses for their own shortcomings if anything else. Making themselves believe that it was steroids that made you look the way you do and completely ignore the many sacrifices that many of us make when we are on cycle. They will also claim that they can have the body that they want to achieve by simply taking a steroid short-cut, when their real issue is that they have not spent the time or are willing to make the sacrifices in terms of training/nutrition to actually achieve what many of us have and/or are trying to achieve.

As long as people are making excuses for themselves or judging the actions of those willing to succeed in life, the more they are unlikely to prosper in their goals.

The fact remains that it's easier to grow on roids than gyming naturally. Period! It all depends on what way you chose!

Then also to take into consideration that the chances of getting to your maximum genetic lean mass naturally is near impossible not even talking about going past it like one can on roids!

The real problem is the majority of the public think you can get huge without roids, this lie causes people to call other people cheaters once they find out someone is using roids!



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pr0gr3s1v3 wrote: Well like you said it's only cheating if comparing to someone else! And this is most likely what your friend is doing, he sees himself doing things more naturally and not gaining as much as you on the roids! So yes a roid user compared to a natty is cheating! You grow faster, you are stronger, recover beter the list goes on!

Your friend is most likely pissed because he now knows he can't keep up with you.

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I think one needs to place emphasis on what teh conceptual definition of natural is. I think this is also core to this argument. Someone who is using testosterone or hgh boosters (whether they work or not) is obviously not keen on doing things naturally. He believes that these products will also give him a competitive edge and I am sure he would not be complaining or considering himself cheating if these OTC supplements had the same effects as the use of AAS and HGH.

Its a combination of stigma, a lack of understanding and pure hypocrisy in my opinion. Also, while I agree that AAS will create a more anabolic environment needed to achieve growth, it still does not account for the hard work and dedication that is needed when on a cycle. At the end of the day, what you gained off a cycle is not so much depednent on what and how much gear you injected into your body, but rather a reflection of how hard you trained, how many calories you ingested and how many parties, functions and other social pleasures you had to forego as you knew you had a specific goal that you wanted to achieve.

This argument obviosuly does not hold mcuh weight when talking of professional sportsmen, but i think the initial question was focused on the non-professional gymer who passes judgement on an AAS user when he himself is spending thousands upon thousands of rands on crap that claims to do the same thing that AAS does.

GSP wrote:

pr0gr3s1v3 wrote: Well like you said it's only cheating if comparing to someone else! And this is most likely what your friend is doing, he sees himself doing things more naturally and not gaining as much as you on the roids! So yes a roid user compared to a natty is cheating! You grow faster, you are stronger, recover beter the list goes on!

Your friend is most likely pissed because he now knows he can't keep up with you.

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Also, while I agree that AAS will create a more anabolic environment needed to achieve growth, it still does not account for the hard work and dedication that is needed when on a cycle.

I think training off cycle or naturally takes just as much work and dedication as when on cycle! I would not base this debate on those grounds. But I do agree with the rest of your post.

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If non users really understand how hard one needs to train when using gear they would stop calling it "cheqting".

Let him say you are morally devoid. Ur use hasn't affected any other person negatively or taken anything from them. As a friend he doesn't have to agree with u but he sure as hell can respect u and ur decisions with your own life.

Buy him a usn protein bar so he can get over it

He is "cheating" also... because he is using stuff that you don't find naturally in food (at the levels he is taking)...

Think he would prob use "juice" if he wasn't scared of the consequences...
Just a guess... cos I don't know your buddy.

I agree with pr0gr3s1v3, cheating might be a harsh word. Rather a huge advantage over a person that is natural. Terms of training harder MCJ- a person on gear does train harder yes, because he is able to. I mean come on, how do you compare supplements with gear?

U misunderstood me or I wasn't too clear lol. Not comparing the two at all. Just trying to say that guys who are really dedicated who use AS work just as hard as a normal person. Same amount of passion and effort goes into it. Yes there is an advantage and yes he is able to do more of a workload. Its a personal choice to use gear or not. We respect those against it, all I'm saying is show mutual respect for our decision to use it.

MCJ wrote: U misunderstood me or I wasn't too clear lol. Not comparing the two at all. Just trying to say that guys who are really dedicated who use AS work just as hard as a normal person. Same amount of passion and effort goes into it. Yes there is an advantage and yes he is able to do more of a workload. Its a personal choice to use gear or not. We respect those against it, all I'm saying is show mutual respect for our decision to use it.

sorry MCJ, that was for Warren and ninja. But I am with you on this post

iMan wrote:

MCJ wrote: U misunderstood me or I wasn't too clear lol. Not comparing the two at all. Just trying to say that guys who are really dedicated who use AS work just as hard as a normal person. Same amount of passion and effort goes into it. Yes there is an advantage and yes he is able to do more of a workload. Its a personal choice to use gear or not. We respect those against it, all I'm saying is show mutual respect for our decision to use it.

sorry MCJ, that was for Warren and ninja. But I am with you on this post

I don't see supps or AS as cheating... I put it in " " as the ninja said his buddy referred to him being a cheater as he has used AS. I meant that if the guy with the issue sees AS as cheating then, by his own definition he is also "cheating" because he is giving himself an advantage over a guy who doesn't use supps or who uses less supps than him.

If he is swallowing all the supps listed he is very likely trying to push his body as far as he can... Personally I would say he would us gear if he wasn't afraid... that's my view...

@Ninja: Good thread! I have similar frustrations so will be watching this thread closely. Thanx bud.

@GSP: Enjoying your views on this!

I would say the main reason I changed my viewpoint on gear is because of the documentary Bigger, Stronger, Faster.

What I liked about it was that it took a purely objective viewpoint towards gear, giving the facts (positive and negative) whilst also dispelling the myths surrounding gear. After that, I couldn't bring myself to see gear as a bad thing, unless of course, someone uses it in a competitive environment where it is prohibited. In your case, you are not cheating, because you are not competing against anyone.

Ask yourself this, why is it cheating? Because it is unnatural? Then one has to ask, what is natural? Do our foods have to be completely organic then, because the way we buy our foods these days is surely not natural (well, at least not the people on this forum ).

I've had these debates many times, I remember having these debates with my dad and my sisters, just for interest's sake, to see what they had against gear. My dad was very objective of the whole thing (though he used to do powerlifting, so I have my suspicions haha) while my sisters were extremely opposed to it, and in the end, they couldn't give me one good reason, their argument in the end was "It's just unnatural on too high a level".

I'll state it again, I don't have any problems with AAS, as long as it is not within a competition in which it is prohibited, and anyone that doesn't like steroids is more than welcome to their opinion, but I wish they'd think a while longer before just accepting the public view of gear.