Degenerative disc disease

Anybody welcome to reply here, looking to help my old lady.

So, my mum has been diagnosed with the mentioned and its severe (she is close to 60). After waiting to see the back surgeon for almost a year she was told that she can either leave it and eventually end up in a wheel chair or have a posture lumbar instrumental fusion which involves wraping a metal plate around the worst disc and securing with screws etc. She has a 50 percent chance of walking after op. Specialist says he would prefer not to do the procedure. She is currently on morphine patches and does not want the procedure. She has had nerves burnt but it did not help.

Is this it for her? Can't a anabolic agent, GH or anything help to alleviate pain and make bones stronger...

She currently resides in the UK and things take time to happen, no offence on this comment!

FIllet wrote: Anybody welcome to reply here, looking to help my old lady.

So, my mum has been diagnosed with the mentioned and its severe (she is close to 60). After waiting to see the back surgeon for almost a year she was told that she can either leave it and eventually end up in a wheel chair or have a posture lumbar instrumental fusion which involves wraping a metal plate around the worst disc and securing with screws etc. She has a 50 percent chance of walking after op. Specialist says he would prefer not to do the procedure. She is currently on morphine patches and does not want the procedure. She has had nerves burnt but it did not help.

Is this it for her? Can't a anabolic agent, GH or anything help to alleviate pain and make bones stronger...

She currently resides in the UK and things take time to happen, no offence on this comment!

Don't have any advise but just wanted to say sorry to hear about your mom

Shame you are very sweet Pixie but don't worry she is not dead yet.

You see I don't want to get her on the beginners cycle or anything but I am thinking that Human growth hormone and perhaps nandrolene or testosterone will help in making her stronger and increasing bone density.

I have seen some success stories on the internet regarding these compounds but wondered if anyone here thought it would be a good idea? what and how and how much. Doctors operate inside a box and are not allowed to step outside of it or they lose their licence. There are things that can help but he cannot suggest them...

?
Ecdysterone repairs cartilage in joints



Ecdysterone, a steroid found in spinach-type plants, helps joint cartilage to grow. Endocrinologists at the University of Goettingen, Germany, reached this conclusion from experiments they did with rats. Bodybuilders are familiar with the muscle-growth effects of ecdysterone supplements but according to the Germans, ecdysterone may also help strengthen joints and bones.







The researchers are studying dietary changes that can help women maintain strength and health after the menopause. The decline in sex hormones in post-menopausal women reduces mass and strength in muscles and bones. There may also be a relationship between reduced estradiol production and arthritis. Because animal studies have shown that ecdysteroid compounds have anabolic effects, the Germans did tests on female rats whose hormone producing ovaries had been removed. The Germans wanted to know whether ecdysterone protected the rats’ bones and joints. They were not disappointed.



The Germans’ experiments lasted three months. One group of rats received food that had 3 g/kg ecdysterone added to it. They ate about 17 g food daily, meaning they consumed about 53 mg ecdysterone per day. Another group of lab rats were given food with synthetic estradiol added to it, giving a daily dose of about 132 micrograms estradiol.



At the end of the three months the Germans examined the rats’ knee joints. They saw that the cartilage in the rats that had been given ecdysterone had grown. Where bones are in contact with each other, in a joint, they are covered with a layer of cartilage. Ecdysterone thickens this layer.
















Estradiol worked even better. The researchers checked whether ecdysterone had an estrogenic effect: it didn’t. Referring to the literature, the Germans suggest that ecdysterone works through the Retinoid-X-Receptor [RXR].



Bones grow in length through growth plates located near the end of bones. Estradiol makes the plates smaller and thinner; ecdysterone makes them larger and thicker.











Bones are only partly composed of hard cells, the compact area. The inside of bones is made of soft trabecular tissue, which is where red blood cells are manufactured. Ecdysterone also causes this softer tissue to grow faster.











Endurance athletes sometimes use ecdysterone because it enhances the production of red blood cells. The Germans’ study goes some way to explaining how ecdysterone can have this effect.



The researchers conclude that ecdysterone has “beneficial effects in bones of ovariectomized rats”. They regard these effects as meriting further research. But they warn that “more detailed investigations will be needed” to find out how ecdysterone works, before trials can be done on humans.



Source:
Phytomedicine. 2010 Apr; 17 (5): 350-355.




More:
Plant steroid in Mass FX is chlorogenin 20.04.2009
IForce Nutrition’s Testabolan is tribulus with ecdysterone 31.03.2009
Ecdysteroids curb growth of fat tissue 24.01.2009
‘Smilax’ the deadly testosterone booster 17.01.2009
Not Tribulus terrestris, but Tribulus alatus 21.11.2008
Tribulus components don’t convert to testosterone 14.11.2008
Ecdysterone gives rat mega-muscles 27.08.2008

An IGF theory

When we think about how our metabolism affects us, we normally think of our ability to optimize our weight. Other than the amount we exercise, we frequently attribute our natural metabolism to our thyroid levels. Although there are people with low thyroid, and benefit from thyroid replacement, doctors and patients alike frequently stop here when addressing this important issue. The most important biologic reason for the age-related increase in fat, decrease in muscle mass, degenerative disc disease, arthritis, hearing impairment, thinning skin, and memory impairment is the age-related decline of the hormone insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1).



IGF-1 is given its silly name only because structurally it looks like insulin, but the similarity ends there. This hormone, made in the liver, has its highest activity in adolescence, when it is the primary controlling factor of the growth of our muscles and bones (thus its name). It is in our body throughout our lives, and its levels perfectly correlate with the function and “metabolism” of our body.



Do levels of IGF-1 correlate with our body fat percentage, muscle mass, IQ, cardiovascular health, hearing, joint and disc health, skin thickness, bone density and fracture rate, energy level, stamina, cognition, and feeling of well-being? Can increasing our IGF-1 levels improve all these factors? Study, after study, after study, the answer is an unequivocally, scientifically well documented YES.

Hey bud! So sorry to hear about your old lady hey! It's really sad bro!

I too can't give any advice! But what I would like to add is that my old lady too resides in the UK. She had massive nose surgery last year. The care she said she received was outstanding. She had her own private ward and said the docs and nursing staff were unbelievable. Made me feel a lot more comfortable with the medical care system over there bud! But I also heard they take forever to see you and book any treatments needed!
You kinda feel so helpless though when they are so far away. But hang in there bud. I think the care will be good, when she eventually gets it.

I also just find this whole discussion sooooo interesting! I for one have thought long and hard about pumping myself with HGH and Test in my senior years! Hahaha! My doc said when the time is right he'd prescribe it no prob! I'm still wanting to learn about this whole peptides story. Lank fascinating to me. Just need to find the time.

All the best with your old lady bro and keep us posted hey!

Thanks Ron for your response.

I just sent her a bbm to ask her GP and Specialist about the use of IGF1/ HGH/ Testosterone and nandrolene. We all know how powerful these substances are and what they can do for your bones/ bone minerals and vitality.

I have no idea how a women would administer that dosage wise and for this condition but hopefully the doctors are open minded about these things and can put something together other then fucking morphine patches and anitdepressants.

Sorry about the shit news.

I am not going to give my opinion on this matter as this is something for the highly qualified experts in that field. Please respect my decision and all the best bud.

Cheers Oupa, no problem.
With the most discomfort she will be here in December to see us and I have booked a consultation with a neurosurgeon for that time. Perhaps he has another opinion and I can freely talk to him about peptides and see what he says. For the time being I will try make contact with one of the universities who do these studies and see what they say.

I am truly sorry to hear about your mom bud. This was definately not an easy read. The forum is here for you 150% bud. From my side, I vote peptides could be of good help. MA is your guy on this and he will be able to give you a much better clue than what I can.

From my side, something very important and with plenty of scientific backing (especially for the elderly), is the following supplements:

Vitamin D @5,000iu

Vitamin D is known to promote bone density and strength, and 2,000IU seems to be the lowest common recommendation for additional vitamin D to the diet. Dosages can range from 5,000-10,000 IU daily as well, although the 2,000-5,000IU range seems to be the best in terms of a cost-to-benefit ratio.

Vitamin K @1,000mcg

1,000mcg of Phylloquinone (alternatively 1,500mcg of MK-4 or 500mcg of MK-7) is the common supplementation dose of vitamin K that is used to promote health effects beyond blood clotting. Evidence reliably links vitamin K intake to a reduced risk of fractures and there seems to be mixed evidence for increasing bone mass, but this supplement would likely be beneficial.

For academic purposes, the majority of studies on vitamin K use combinations with vitamin D and calcium, and there is a loading protocol with 45mg MK-4 daily that does appear to be effective (but is quite expensive and I don´t think it is worth the cost).

Calcium @1000mg

1000mg Calcium tends to be the recommended dose if the diet is not taken into account. Ideally, one would see how much calcium they get inherent to their diet (from dairy products, vegetables, and Whey Protein) and then use however much calcium is required to reach near the RDI of calcium (1,000-1,300mg). I am guessing your mom´s diet needs some more Calcium.

Magnesium @300mg

Magnesium is similar to calcium in the sense that it does not need to be supplemented if the diet has sufficient magnesium in it, but if the diet does not provide enough then supplementation should cover the remainder. 200mg is slightly less than the RDI of magnesium, and tends to be the go-to recommended dose if dietary intake of magnesium is ignored. I advise a little bit more in this case.

have an idea of how u feel ..my mom 81 has been on Chemo which isnt working and will soon be using those morphine patches ..your mom is still young though ...hope u come right in sorting something out boet ... MA or Rhino Mom should have an opinion

Pyroclasm wrote: I am truly sorry to hear about your mom bud. This was definately not an easy read. The forum is here for you 150% bud. From my side, I vote peptides could be of good help. MA is your guy on this and he will be able to give you a much better clue than what I can.

From my side, something very important and with plenty of scientific backing (especially for the elderly), is the following supplements:

Vitamin D @5,000iu

Vitamin D is known to promote bone density and strength, and 2,000IU seems to be the lowest common recommendation for additional vitamin D to the diet. Dosages can range from 5,000-10,000 IU daily as well, although the 2,000-5,000IU range seems to be the best in terms of a cost-to-benefit ratio.

Vitamin K @1,000mcg

1,000mcg of Phylloquinone (alternatively 1,500mcg of MK-4 or 500mcg of MK-7) is the common supplementation dose of vitamin K that is used to promote health effects beyond blood clotting. Evidence reliably links vitamin K intake to a reduced risk of fractures and there seems to be mixed evidence for increasing bone mass, but this supplement would likely be beneficial.

For academic purposes, the majority of studies on vitamin K use combinations with vitamin D and calcium, and there is a loading protocol with 45mg MK-4 daily that does appear to be effective (but is quite expensive and I don´t think it is worth the cost).

Calcium @1000mg

1000mg Calcium tends to be the recommended dose if the diet is not taken into account. Ideally, one would see how much calcium they get inherent to their diet (from dairy products, vegetables, and Whey Protein) and then use however much calcium is required to reach near the RDI of calcium (1,000-1,300mg). I am guessing your mom´s diet needs some more Calcium.

Magnesium @300mg

Magnesium is similar to calcium in the sense that it does not need to be supplemented if the diet has sufficient magnesium in it, but if the diet does not provide enough then supplementation should cover the remainder. 200mg is slightly less than the RDI of magnesium, and tends to be the go-to recommended dose if dietary intake of magnesium is ignored. I advise a little bit more in this case.

Some solid info thanks

mike123 wrote: have an idea of how u feel ..my mom 81 has been on Chemo which isnt working and will soon be using those morphine patches ..your mom is still young though ...hope u come right in sorting something out boet ... MA or Rhino Mom should have an opinion

Lucky I got my dads genes and that is only HBP
My sisters have got my Mums genes in that respect

Hey FIllet, my dad has about the same, instead go growing growth is reversed, from his nails to muscle and bone same class as MND . . . he has a very open minded doctor so I suggested the use of roids which the doctor shot down because of his age and hart condition. His on a waiting list for clinical trails, I suggest you do the same and look for doctors that provide clinical trails. . . Strongs Bud!

thanks mate I will check that out.

So I got hold of Wits University, and the lady promised me that an expert from faculty of medical sciences will get back to me

I also managed to get Hold of Dr. Michael Scally's two email addresses, took a chance on that one so lets see if he gets back to me.

Gots to try

And Dr. Scally replied, can you believe it... Feel like an HPTAxis Celeb.

His answer was no on the gear, growth and other peptides

Sorry to hear about your mom's condition bro. I would stick to talking to specialists about this kind of condition and always get a second or 3rd opinion. My mom went on HRT to prevent problems with arthritis/osteoporosis as her mom had some issues with that. Bones become more brittle after menopause due to low estrogen so some people do go that route to help with arthritis, although many docs say it's not worth the potential side effects. That's all I can think of to consider besides supplementing with vitamins and minerals. Hope things improve.

Thanks MA, been waiting to hear from you all day

To see a specialist again in the UK she will be put on a waiting list so she will get another opinion when she comes home in December.
I am interested to hear from the guys at Wits though as they teach the docs and specialists.