Consumer dispute

I wonder if any of you guys have any background in law or dispute settlement?

As you know I bought a new car (2nd hand) a little while ago, from a private seller.

Now the purchase was concluded over a month ago and I am still waiting for the paperwork to be concluded...

When I fetched the car, after the full purchase amount was paid, the seller informed me at the last minute that the license had expired. I didnt think this would be a problem as i'd be reregistering it that week and renewing the license, and the seller promised to pay the penalty fees. However when i went to license the vehicle it turned out that the car was still registered to the finance institution. The seller furnished me with a letter from the finance institution stating that payments were completed, but the licensing department informed me that the seller would first have to fully register the car in his own name and renew the license, then I could transfer it to my name. (the logbook stated him as owner but bank as title holder, this had to change to him as titleholder before the sale could be finalised).

No problem? Except the douche that I bought the car from has messed me around endlessly in getting this done. In the last 3 weeks i have heard constant stories and lies from him, and the last i heard he was off to the cape for a week on holiday and will get it done in port shepstone (where car is registered) on his way back yesterday... I phoned the licensing authorities there and they confirmed that the vehicle license has not been renewed. Im trying to contact the seller but as usual he's difficult to say the least to get hold of.

And so for the last few weeks my new car has sat in my driveway as due to it being unlicensed, and technically illegal on the roads, the insurance will not cover it to be driven... Nice, expensive driveway ornament. So now im looking for options to work this out as i am tired of empty promises and its crippling me financially as i havent been able to sell my old car yet as i need to drive something...

Hang on: Who is the TitleHolder and Owner with eNaTIS?

this sucks. pretty unlikey he is gonna give you back ur money. means u gonna have to get a lawyer if u wanna return the vehicle or
2. get him to do what he has to do.

have you tired speaking to the bank who has the title and sort it out with them. show them proof of payment and sale agreement. to go to a lawyer gonna cost too much! jus go catch the fcuker and get him to sort it out then n there! thats what i wud do!

Wow bro, I feel for you.. That really sucks, I don't know to much about that part of the law, my fiance works at a law firm, i can try ask some questions.. But her boss is a real A hole so never know if he will be helpful or not..

If I remember correctly if the title holder is the bank, he cannot sell the car as it's still the bank's property.

Yeah im thinking next step is a lawyers letter. I dont want to return the vehicle as im happy with it and have already spent a few grand on it getting the chip done, sound installed, service done etc.

Just getting desperate here and so frustrated with his time wasting... All i ask is for him to do the right thing and renew the license and register the vehicle, then return paperwork so i can do the same.

eNatis should have it the same i assume? That is what the logbook stated JR

Yeah correct admin, so in order for the sale to finalise it has to become his property, something he has to do... In the meantime i sit with the car in the drive and a BIG deficit in my bank account

Another thing, didn't the law change that you have to change ownership of a vehicle through a registered car dealer?
I think they did that for exactly this reason...

Not sure of that, the person i saw at the licensing department gave me all the paperwork that'll be required and told me he'd just have to put it into his name first. I have a friend in a used car dealership and he confirmed this for me.

Oh ok, if he settled with the bank it should be pretty simple as they will send him the required docs to transfer the car to his name and then he do the same thing for you.

spike you buy it through your bank or cash? Because if its through your bank, it shouldn't have gone through until you provided all the correct papers to the bank..

The banks should have an online interface for this by now. Change TitleHolder into his name. When you do a registration, the license arrears and penalties will be charged to the previous owner - not immediately, but when he does any transaction on eNaTIS. So dont push for a licensing, rather push for the registration.

Same shit happened to me 2 months ago, got a friend in the traffic department to call the asshole and pretend as though he pulled me over and that I explained the situation to him and that if the guy doesn't sort the paperwork out within the week he's gonna pay a R1k fine as the car was still under his name. An hour later bastard calls and we sort it out a couple of days later

Spike if you have the receipt of purchase you can just go straight to the traffic department or wherever they license cars in your area and pay like R150 for them to pull the vehicles paperwork for you. They'll have to do roadworthy tests and all that but you'll be the owner of the car legally now and whatever you have to sort out with the bank you can do that yourself and not have to deal with this guy again. Downside is you have to pay all outstanding fines and for a new disc yourself

Deadgoat wrote: Same shit happened to me 2 months ago, got a friend in the traffic department to call the asshole and pretend as though he pulled me over and that I explained the situation to him and that if the guy doesn't sort the paperwork out within the week he's gonna pay a R1k fine as the car was still under his name. An hour later bastard calls and we sort it out a couple of days later

Spike if you have the receipt of purchase you can just go straight to the traffic department or wherever they license cars in your area and pay like R150 for them to pull the vehicles paperwork for you. They'll have to do roadworthy tests and all that but you'll be the owner of the car legally now and whatever you have to sort out with the bank you can do that yourself and not have to deal with this guy again. Downside is you have to pay all outstanding fines and for a new disc yourself

Nope..... this will never happen. If it does its illegal. Spike see my note above. Thats how it works.

jackrabbit1 wrote:
Nope..... this will never happen. If it does its illegal. Spike see my note above. Thats how it works.

You sure? That what that traffic cop buddy told me I could do if he still refused to co-operate

I also think it is illegal if they do what deadgoat suggested, but I know for a fact that they can do it.

I sold a Corsa Utility 1.8 sport to my sister and she sold her 1.4 Club to a used car dealer. The dealer said they will do all the paperwork of both ownership transfers for a R3000 fee. She agreed, because she owed money on her bakkie and needed help to arrange finances for buying mine and to do that you have to use a dealer as middle man to make sure that cars are actually involved and not something else.

Somehow the dealer changed the ownership of my bakkie to her name and bank as title holder without me ever signing a single from. Note that I was the title holder, since I bought it cash about 10 months before selling it again. I was very upset that they managed to do that, but I got the payment in full, so didn't really mind.

well the guy sms'd me today saying he was in port shepstone now and doing the registration. So if it aint done and dusted this weekend and the papers etc in my hand i will start to explore the other avenues. Just sick of being screwed around. He has plenty money and thus it isnt an issue for him, but for me its a big thing. Not being able to sell my golf and having to pay insurance on both vehicles is crippling

Shame Spike, hope all gets sorted out soon.. However I know Port Shepstone traffic department, and not a world of a lie, for 3 years in a row I went there to renew my license and stood in a queue that was so long, only to get close to the front and 'their system was online'.. Once I went back 2 times on different days and it went off again.. Port Shepstone is such a run down, hole... Know idea how I lived there for majority of my life, hope all went smoothly

Thanks for the sentiments guys. Well no more word from him and no answer to my calls... He seems to only be available when it suits him, something i find a little slimy.

Will keep trying but if no luck this weekend then i guess its the lawyers letter next, got a relative who'll help me out with that.

This guy just tries to duck and dive everything. When i fetched the car at first and he told me the license was expired he then said be careful where i park it so it doesnt get a ticket... So basically selling me a car then saying i cant drive it because its unlicensed. Well i got a ticket a few days later and when i told him about this he reckons thats my problem because he warned me... WTF Who buys a car they dont intend on driving?? I told him he's mad. The ticket is on his registration number because HE never renewed his license so its his damn problem...

Grrr. Thank goodness for gym... Just had a big arms session to work out my frustrations

Sorry to hear about this Crap Spike.

I'm thinking thay maybe, just maybe the dude sold you the car and used the bucks to settle he's loan with the bank. IF this is the case the dude will wait a fair while for the registration papers which will indicate that he is the owner.
He will have to register the car on he's name and then only on your name.

This might be why is ducking and diving on you.

He made bucks from you and from the bank for settling the loan early but now has to wait for the papers.

Good luck, and I really hope this is the case....

What I can't stand if the whole trust issue. Gone with the days were you could trust people.. you used to be able to buy all your groceries and realize you forgot you wallet at home, and the manager would still trust me, the same with fuel.. now you can't trust your best friends as they will take you for a ride.. so dam sad the way the world is going.. really makes me sad and that feeling of helplessness to see things fall apart like this and not being able to get into the minds of these selfish, self centred individuals...

i 100 percent agree pump. This guy seemed trustworthy to me, an active rotarian, nice guy etc. He sms'd me last night saying the papers are done and i can collect on mon BUT he wants me to pay him R600 for the balance of the license, R600 for the fine i received because the vehicle was unlicensed (and I had no way of licensing it and had to drive it), and R300 for the valet he had done before i collected it! I aint paying that asshole a cent, so tomoro im collecting the papers whether he likes it or not, and i will get a court order from small claims first if needs be

spike wrote: i 100 percent agree pump. This guy seemed trustworthy to me, an active rotarian, nice guy etc. He sms'd me last night saying the papers are done and i can collect on mon BUT he wants me to pay him R600 for the balance of the license, R600 for the fine i received because the vehicle was unlicensed (and I had no way of licensing it and had to drive it), and R300 for the valet he had done before i collected it! I aint paying that asshole a cent, so tomoro im collecting the papers whether he likes it or not, and i will get a court order from small claims first if needs be

Right - he registered into his name and licensed. The fine was already processed and became payable at the time of the transaction. Now the car is up to date, but.... is it in your name? Have you sigen the MVR1? has it been transferred from his side awaiting your registration? Where is it all at now?

You need to get thet Registration certificate. If its already in yor name it becomes alot easier.

The fine, licence liability is HIS responsibility according to the law.

If he didnt do a transfer of ownership or at least a notification of sale of motor vehicle he will be liable for the fine as well because the owner on the date the fine was issued will automatically become the owner of the fine when it is loaded onto eNaTIS.

He doesnt have a leg to stand on legally.

thats what i figured, he just chancing but its pissing me off. I just want to be done with him and able to drive my car. I just reckon he's gonna try withhold the paperwork so i need a legal route to follow

Round up some of those large Durban boyz and take the paperwork to him to sign. Remember the registration certificate.