For the guys who did it @jackrabbit and 00pump

Okay, this is something I'm curious about. 00pump said he is willing to discuss this so maybe it clears up some questions that some of the other members might also have.

Jack mentioned that he has done cycles in the past with 500mg sust eod and 300mg deca, I would like to know how were sides while on that much gear and how the gains were like? In a previous thread when we talked about receptor down regulation you said that you make good gains now on 800mg primo I think with 250mg test. Someone then asked how much smaller you are now compared to your prime when you ran the heavy cycles. If you could answer that it would be great.

@00pump. I am speaking under correction here, but I read once that you said something like "If I didn't care about my health I would still be running deca, tren, test and equi cycles". I have searched the forum for threads on this and I found nothing. I know you have numerous health issues because of the gear and that you basically burnt out at 24 on steroids and that you started on 16. Can you maybe give some more information regarding this? What were the heaviest cycles you ran? The duration of cycles? Did you follow the blast and cruise approach? What according to you was the main cause of your health issues and do you think with your knowledge of AAS now that you could have ran the same cycles without damaging your health?

If you were 16 again, and wanted to be a pro (doing bodybuilding as a job) what would your approach be?

Haha, its a lot of questions. Would appreciate it if you guys could answer them. Thanks

jakes wrote: ....Jack mentioned that he has done cycles in the past with 500mg sust eod and 300mg deca, I would like to know how were sides while on that much gear and how the gains were like? In a previous thread when we talked about receptor down regulation you said that you make good gains now on 800mg primo I think with 250mg test. Someone then asked how much smaller you are now compared to your prime when you ran the heavy cycles. If you could answer that it would be great.....

I was on my way to entering a show somewhere in 92 when i stopped. Partying was always a priority. I was getting pretty big back then and on absolute minimal test - 100mg Depo Test/week.

Realized my life had to change around 2005 when i stopped smoking and training again. I only started using AAS in 2007 again after doing evything i could naturally - first USN and then Animal - loads of it.

I'm on 250mg Testoviron + 400mg Primo at the moment. Love it. going to try it at 250 test and 200 Primo soon but have no motivation as this combo is working nicely for 5 weeks already. I was always tired on the heavier dosages. I also got some boil-like acne when i first increased the Deca. EQ over 700mg gave me SERIOUS anxiety. EQ also affected my sight - it became blury.

As for Prime vs Now.... think im improving all the time. I wasted my mid 20's to mid 30's on boozing etc. Quality is more important to me now. My arms are a little smaller but my fore-arms, Brachialis, tri, bi seperation is so much better. Legs better. Calves MUCH better. Hammies on the up. Fat is a bastard nowadays and by far the biggest battle. I might do a lower Primo and incorporate a low dose quality GH to see how that works out.

You bunch of young okes have all this info available which i never had. You have no idea how far you can make it if you play it right... As for wasting your lives on booze etc... you are looking great - keep it up. I wish i had a site like this when i was in my early 20's. I would NEVER have stopped.

Thanks bud, hopefully I will improve even further. Luckily I don't drink or smoke.

Its true, guys today have access to information you guys never had. Not just steroids but nutritional information as well. We are privileged.
Its a pity about the booze and partying, at least you sorted that out now. One more thing I wanted to ask - while on the high dose cycles, what AI dose did you use?

LP made a liquid Aromasin.
I used a couple of drops a day - think 4 drops or so(maybe someone can remember and post the dodsage?). Was an EXTREMELY small dose. Cant remember exactly what it was.
Then 100mg Proviron; and I also always use 150mg B6 twice a day and an Animal Pak.

-awaits mr Pump's reply- :whistle:

Lol, will reply soon bro, as soon as I get on my pc

Haha great. Really interested and curious

jackrabbit1 wrote: LP made a liquid Aromasin.
I used a couple of drops a day - think 4 drops or so(maybe someone can remember and post the dodsage?). Was an EXTREMELY small dose. Cant remember exactly what it was.
Then 100mg Proviron; and I also always use 150mg B6 twice a day and an Animal Pak.

20mg per ml and the stuff tasted horrible and on higher doses it took balls to drink it down.

Hmm, right well from around 16 -> 20 I took bad advice and always was told to take huge amounts of gear, and that time I was just listening to ‘big guys’ who tell me to take a gram of test at that age, which was stupid, as 250mg would have given me similar results without putting my body under strain, PCT was only ever hCG and that was taken a week after last shot, and I used to be advised to take 5000iu, split it in 3 shots, Mon/Wed/Fri. Once I took a split like that and landed up with severe ball ache where I had to go to the doctor and again due to lack of information I wasn’t advised what I was doing was right or wrong.

But end of the day the information was at that time was to ‘pyramid’ juice too, right from Dianabol to Testosterone. Slowly slowly I was putting strain on my body, and diet? What was that… I would eat bread and couldn’t afford proper food all the time. And everyone recommended mass builders which was also just a complete waste. Then some would say it’s better to take Creatine so then I wouldn’t take protein shakes and then only take Creatine. End of the day it was all information passed down the grape vine and by the time it was given to me it was a broken telephone. Then at that time 19-nor ‘prohormone’ was recommended but again, no one could explain why I should use it. So as you can see I just kept chopping and changing and just keep on putting stuff in my body, from Winnie to Dbol to Anadrol (again everyone like this is the strongest steroid) again nobody could tell me how to take it properly, so when I got it I just took it. And then I started taking strain on my body already, with dull ache in my lower back, not knowing what it was (kidneys) I just carried on.

Anyway, went to the UK and then found a gym called MuscleWorks where all the big boys trained but the knowledge there was much better. And then this is when Apex brought out their Apex T350 and then the IFBB pro there told me, 350mg a week of test is enough to grow but my diet needs to be spot on. So due to all this junk that was planted in my head I didn’t believe it and would again use around a gram of test and 750mg of Deca and again loads of orals and stayed on hGH (Jintropin), and then my body started to pack up. I then developed urticaria and was in so much pain that I couldn’t train and used to have a fan with an extension cord and move it around the gym and have it blowing on me or I’d break out until I started sweating allot. I would break out going in the sun, getting upset or angry, getting embarrassed or any other emotion I’d break out with this welts over my body, I tried everything from antihistamines to acupuncture to try aid in the pain or relief or reverse it… This carried on and then I started developing gyno too, and pissing blood, and started getting chest pain. Then I realized I’m suffering high BP that is through the roof, then Adex started to find its way on the market, but was extremely expensive but I tried it anyway and that seemed to help the BP to a point (estrogen control) that SERM’s were not able to aid in, and at that time it was advised to stay on Nolva through your cycles, so in essence I lived on Nolva too. And any Schedule medication is going to cause side effects, regardless if its schedule 1, you can’t be on it for ever. The same is true with my BP meds, they cause other side effects, and you land up using 1 drug to counter the sides of another.

Now, all I needed to do at that time was listen to that IFBB pro and only use low doses of steroids and proper diet and I would achieve great results, and that is the truth. 500 -> 750mg of Testosterone is all you ‘truly’ need to get great gains, yes other steroids are great to kick-start cycles or used for cutting cycles, etc. How was that guy able to achieve that mass he had and win Pro shows on 350mg of test? Simple he was gifted like all pro athletes are, and by taking more ‘gear’ will not give you the same bodies as these guys, you either have the genetics or you don’t. Ye starting young and with proper information and using IGF you can break through genetic limits.

So what I’m trying to say here is that you don’t need high doses of gear to achieve amazing results, if I had this forum when I was 16 I probably would have been around 140+kgs now and been able to carry out my dream. Now there is pretty much no gear that I can use without causing health issues and just getting me closer and closer to my death bed. I did a cycle recently of just 50mg Winstrol and man the results where great. So it again shows that you don’t need lots of gear to achieve results, if you keep feeding your body loads of gear you going to keep needing high amounts to achieve similar results but the truth is just have a time out and get all the other aspects right and gear is the smallest part in bodybuilding, it is just the catabolic hormone suppressor and aids in protein synthesis… Lee Priest is open about his steroid use and you never see him using high doses of gears yet there is such a small % that would ever get a frame like him. So using gear year round might not be the answer, and like I said with all drugs your body is finally going to get the point that you going to develop some or other issue, whether it be hemorrhoids, hernia, high BP, liver or kidney issues, heart issues or clogged arteries, you going to land up with something. Your body is designed to work on this ‘perfect’ balance, and when hormones are all over the show for long periods of time be prepared to suffer side effects.

Cycling steroids for 3 to 4 months and taking the same time off, and during this off time, you put your body under no strain you should be able to use steroids for the rest of your life without causing a chronic condition. If you feel you need an extra month off and go to 4-5 months then rather do that. This is the time to eat well (healthy) and proper foods to make you grow and reduce your training time, but up intensity after PCT and you should sustain 100% of your “gain’s”.

End of the day ‘food is medicine’ and if you eat correctly you should live a long and healthy life, any ‘supplement’ is just that to add to something that you may be missing, they shouldn’t be abused either.

Thanks man, that was a great read.

Two questions though. Do you think that in todays time and age an IFBB pro can go off cycle? Secondly, what was your bodyfat % and weight at your "peak" and don't you think even if you ran similar cycles (let's say 2g test and 1g deca with some equi maybe) with a proper AI like adex and a spot on diet that you would have achieved your goals (without the major health issues)?

Yes you can go off, if you doing a show a year. Stay on for 8 months off for 4, you should keep gaining...

Hmm, no, if I had used 750mg test and 700mg EQ and stayed on hGH I would have achieved my goal, leaving the orals alone and having 4 months off in a year.

Biggest 122kgs in top single digits, 8 to 9 percent. But not big enough, maybe if I had got to 130kgs then again if you don't step on stage its hard to know... We always think we can do better and I guess we always do, but you need a marker... You got some nice mass, get to single digits and hop on stage and take it from there... Also the belief when I was in the UK was only cycle hGH with IGF I'm not sure today if that is true or not...

I honestly don't believe in high dose cycles and just wish I could have started at 16 again with 500mg test and a proper diet... But the truth is you need to make it your life, no other toxins, smoking drinking, fast foods often, and eat heart health food and you can achieve anything...

Now I want to get drop to 95 at 6 percent and I'm happy there, well my body is... As soon as I go over 110 I get uncrontrolled bp, and I'm on the strongest of 3 types of BP meds

I don't drink - at all. Don't smoke etc. While bulking I do sometimes grab a kfc bucket - or two. Guess I should stop that. I don't think I am big enough to compete yet haha, maybe 2013 or 2014. The seniors are big boys, I don't just want to be another guy on the stage. If I can't be placed top 3 I'd rather leave it...

Thanks for sharing bro, think I should reconsider the amount of steroids I want to put in my body

Thx for sharing pump and jack.very interesting read.

For my next 3rd cycle I was considering 750mg test and 400mg deca ew. Are we saying that I would get similar gains with less sides with 500mg test and 300mg deca ew.

No, use logic here. Testosterone is dose dependent. If one guy pins 2g and the other 1g with similar diets the guy pinning 2g will defiantly have better gains if the were on similar diets.

The golden rule here is to be realistic with dosages. One bodybuilder said once "if a 85kg bodybuilder doesnt build muscle on 1g of test, something is wrong with his diet"

There is no question that higher dosages give better results BUT in the long run using smaller dosages is better because you won't burn out on steroids or damage your health.

Ice-rip that dose is a little low for you, stick to initial dose. You could lower the test a bit and take 600mg. Throw in some proviron though

Your using axio hey bud? If you haven't bought the stuff yet I'd rather go for PGW. 3ml test e weekly with 1ml deca. I don't know your cycle history so if you feel that's too much for you, you can lower the test dosage by 0.5-1ml.

If your libido drops you may need to increase test. But I've run a gram of each and felt like a rabbit on heat

Yeah will run 50mg proviron ed from start of cycle. Must say I was very disapointed with the eq I ran last cycle. Disciplines weren't hundred percent but still expected more. Now I'm just after size and strength. If I pin sust mon wed and fri would that be a better option than testoviron for size and strength. Also after hearing your story pump I don't wanna use orals so was hoping that the prop in the sust will help kickstart the cycle faster than the enanthate. What u think? Oh and will pinning sust in the delt hurt

You can pin it just where you want to, the amount of test prop in sust is very little, think its 40mg per 250mg (1ml) so it won't be an effective kickstart. I'd pin testoviron twice weekly fronloaded with dbol @50mg for 24days... You won't damage you liver by using it for that amount of time

Would I be taking a big risk switching the dbol to anapolan. And is there really such a big difference in strength and size and how soon it comes with dbol vs anapolan

Dbol is stronger than naps, 100mg dbol vs 100mg naps and the dbol would give better results. You can switch them if you want bud

i dont agree,anapolin at 100mg will yeild higher results that dbol.

dbol has a Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio of : 90-210
anapolin has a Anabolic Ratio/Androgenic: 320-45

so it is less of an androgen more of an anabolic ,so it wont compete with any other steroid to attaching to the androgen receptor, but that makes it very shitty for cutting...so its much better for a bulking cycle.

Hmmn, learn something new every day. Thanks Dj. Guess it isn't "stronger"