Is HCG really necessary for this cycle?

Howzit going guys gonna start this cycle soon and just want advice on the pct

weeks 1-10 test e 600mg/week
weeks 6-10 winstrol 50mg/day

is Nolvadex and clomid fine for the pct or should I add HCG?

Badly structured.

week 1-10 test e @ 600mg
week 11-14 winstrol @ 50mg/day.

PCT:30days after last shot of test.
clomid
Nolva
HCG

Hi coolert

I would say so hey, pretty simple and straight forward cycle, even the beginner bulking cycle with Test Cyp @ 500mg per week requires hCG in its PCT. Better safe than sorry bro, besides, it hardly costs that much more that the Test E.

Before you start, what's your cycle history, stats and goals? Basic Tests like Cyp and Enanthate are generally used with beginner's bulking cycles with and oral kicker of Dbol, or better yet Oral Turanabol, instead of Winstrol for the first 25 days.

If this is your first cycle go to the sample cycle section on the forum (Articles> Sample Cycles)and take a look at the beginner's bulking cycle. It also gives a brief explanation why each compound is used. If I were you I would run the cycle like this:

Week 1-10: 600mg Test E (Mon-Thurs split)
Week 1-4: 50mg Tbol ED
From last pin to day before PCT (~32days): 40mg Winstrol + 40mg Proviron

PCT:
First week: 100mg Clomid ED
Second to Fourth week: 20mg Nolva + 500iU Ovidrel or hCG

After doing a bit of research, Ovidrel IMO is better than hCG, but some guys tend to disagree with me. Oral Tbol works just like Dbol except it won't give you water retention like Dbol does (therefore better muscle gains). Winny and Proviron are used as a bridge to keep you anabolic in the period between you last injection and your PCT, and also are used to harden up post cycle. PCT should commence ~32 days after your last pin of Test E. Clomid is used in the first week of PCT to kickstart your HPTA axis (your nads) whilst the Nolva is an anti-estrogen and the Ovidrel is used to stimulate "FSH, LH and TSH production simultaneously thus repairing your testosterone function, sperm production and thyroid function in one go" ( www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/articles/drug...nes/37-gonadotrophin ).

All the best bro and don't forget to post your cycle history, stats and goals - your cycle might change depending on these things.

thanks guys really helpful need to rethink this cycle and do some more research before I start. I have done a few cycles in the past but they were not done properly it was a few years back..so Im counting this as my first proper cycle. Right now im 86kg's 6'1 13% body fat looking to bulk up but retain solid muscle. So MK gonna take your advice thank bro!!

No problem. That's a good mentality to have by understanding what you're gonna be doing before you actually go out and do it. Judging by your comment that your previous cycles were not done properly a few years back, I doubt you used a proper PCT, or any PCT for that matter. Make sure your PCT is 110%, it's the most important part of any cycle. This site is very informative, especially with its sample cycles and I suggest you take a look at the Beginner's Bulking cycle like I said.

You might want to consider researching an AI for your cycle like Arimidex. There are other such as Letrozole, but there have been so many negative remarks about it from guys on the forum that I think its best to spend the extra buck and buy the Adex. Research what to do if gyno occurs, you'll probably find out more than you expected to. The best thing to do before a cycle is to read, read and read some more. You will surprise yourself with how much you don't know, even if you think you know your fair share.

MK, what research shows that Ovidrel is better than regular PCT? I have read forum threads about this but found nothing to show this as fact anywhere online or in any published study. Quite the contrary. Everything I have read shows them both to be as effective in both testosterone production and spermatogenesis. Also confirmed by a hrt specialist Dr.

@Muscleaddict: I never said that Ovidrel is better than regular PCT? I said that, IMO, it's better than Pregnyl. And according to this website, 'pregnyl only has minimal effect on Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH) and primarily mimics Lutenizing Hormone (LH). Where Ovidrel is much more superior to Pregnyl as it stimulates FSH, LH and Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone (TSH) production simultaneously thus repairing your testosterone function, sperm production and thyroid function in one go'. Therefore, and I said that it was my opinion, I feel like Ovidrel is better than Pregnyl as it also helps stimulate TSH... I never said that it was better for testosterone production and spermatogenesis, perhaps I should have clarified my reason in the first place. Maybe was trying to be a bit too technical there, apologies. But I agree with you that it does not differ from Pregnyl in terms of test production and spermatogenesis. Good point Muscleaddict.

MK, sorry for the confusion. I mistyped. I meant to type HCG, not PCT. I have read all the threads here about Ovidrel vs regular HCG, but I can't find anywhere else online that shows Ovidrel to be more effective than HCG for PCT. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, just looking for some literature/study/anything to support that.

What I have found is quite a few biomedical references saying that Ovidrel and Pregnyl/HCG BOTH have have alpha sub-units identical to that of of LH, FSH and TSH. Not just Ovidrel. On other forums 2 well known HRT Docs say that "Ovidrel is HCG", but then not much else.

This is actually the only site I have found anywhere (literally after many :S hours of looking) to make claims about Ovidrel repairing thyroid function. So I am a bit confused by this whole ovidrel/hcg thing. Its a pity Doctari doesn't come on here anymore. Would be great to have someone on this forum again who has the medical background and experience in the bodybuilding world.

No problem bro, no need to apologise. I guess we shouldn't really limit our research to a single website, or to websites on their own. Along with a lot of helpful and correct articles on the subject, I bet there are just as many, if not more, that are total bull. Probably the best way to come to a good conclusion is by speaking to qualified doctors who know exactly what they're talking about.

It is a pity that there isn't someone like him here to help us all get a better understanding of things we're interested in, hopefully he'll return some time or even if another qualified doctor were to join the forum.

Muscleaddict wrote: MK, sorry for the confusion. I mistyped. I meant to type HCG, not PCT. I have read all the threads here about Ovidrel vs regular HCG, but I can't find anywhere else online that shows Ovidrel to be more effective than HCG for PCT. I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, just looking for some literature/study/anything to support that.

What I have found is quite a few biomedical references saying that Ovidrel and Pregnyl/HCG BOTH have have alpha sub-units identical to that of of LH, FSH and TSH. Not just Ovidrel. On other forums 2 well known HRT Docs say that "Ovidrel is HCG", but then not much else.

This is actually the only site I have found anywhere (literally after many :S hours of looking) to make claims about Ovidrel repairing thyroid function. So I am a bit confused by this whole ovidrel/hcg thing. Its a pity Doctari doesn't come on here anymore. Would be great to have someone on this forum again who has the medical background and experience in the bodybuilding world.

Why dont you try and email admin, ask him to email doctari for you and clarify this? Far as I know he still has contact as well as dj. Maybe a long shot, but still a shot

i was under the same impression that ovidrel is better or more superior to HCG just as MK.

now this is my question to muscleaddict.......
if it is like you say about the 2, why is there such a vast price difference between the 2 cause as to my knowledge most sources are selling ovidrel for almost up to 4 times the price of HCG?

I mean i wouldnt be paying 4 times as much for the same thing unless 1 is more superior in quality. Just my 5c

MASSMONSTA wrote: i was under the same impression that ovidrel is better or more superior to HCG just as MK.

now this is my question to muscleaddict.......
if it is like you say about the 2, why is there such a vast price difference between the 2 cause as to my knowledge most sources are selling ovidrel for almost up to 4 times the price of HCG?

I mean i wouldnt be paying 4 times as much for the same thing unless 1 is more superior in quality. Just my 5c

The process of synthesizing Ovidrel is more costly than the extraction of normal HCG. That is why it costs more.

I have done a fair amount of research on this. I also have the original 82 page pharmacology and biopharmaceutics review on Ovidrel. This includes info on everything from what happens to it in the body, to a comparison between uHCG and rHCG. Unfortunately some pages are omitted because of trade secrets/confidentiality but there is still loads of info.

After comparing (in both men and women) biological equivalence of HCG and Ovidrel it says that the difference between uHCG and Ovidrel should not be clinically significant.

What is interesting to note though is that Ovidrel should be injected intramuscularly opposed to sub-cutaneously for maximum bioavailability.

Muscleaddict wrote:

MASSMONSTA wrote: i was under the same impression that ovidrel is better or more superior to HCG just as MK.

now this is my question to muscleaddict.......
if it is like you say about the 2, why is there such a vast price difference between the 2 cause as to my knowledge most sources are selling ovidrel for almost up to 4 times the price of HCG?

I mean i wouldnt be paying 4 times as much for the same thing unless 1 is more superior in quality. Just my 5c

The process of synthesizing Ovidrel is more costly than the extraction of normal HCG. That is why it costs more.

I have done a fair amount of research on this. I also have the original 82 page pharmacology and biopharmaceutics review on Ovidrel. This includes info on everything from what happens to it in the body, to a comparison between uHCG and rHCG. Unfortunately some pages are omitted because of trade secrets/confidentiality but there is still loads of info.

After comparing (in both men and women) biological equivalence of HCG and Ovidrel it says that the difference between uHCG and Ovidrel should not be clinically significant.

What is interesting to note though is that Ovidrel should be injected intramuscularly opposed to sub-cutaneously for maximum bioavailability.

Muscleaddict where do you read all this stuff bro? Would lovee to do some intense research like this if you can call it intense haha...

gorilla wrote:

Muscleaddict wrote:

MASSMONSTA wrote: i was under the same impression that ovidrel is better or more superior to HCG just as MK.

now this is my question to muscleaddict.......
if it is like you say about the 2, why is there such a vast price difference between the 2 cause as to my knowledge most sources are selling ovidrel for almost up to 4 times the price of HCG?

I mean i wouldnt be paying 4 times as much for the same thing unless 1 is more superior in quality. Just my 5c

The process of synthesizing Ovidrel is more costly than the extraction of normal HCG. That is why it costs more.

I have done a fair amount of research on this. I also have the original 82 page pharmacology and biopharmaceutics review on Ovidrel. This includes info on everything from what happens to it in the body, to a comparison between uHCG and rHCG. Unfortunately some pages are omitted because of trade secrets/confidentiality but there is still loads of info.

After comparing (in both men and women) biological equivalence of HCG and Ovidrel it says that the difference between uHCG and Ovidrel should not be clinically significant.

What is interesting to note though is that Ovidrel should be injected intramuscularly opposed to sub-cutaneously for maximum bioavailability.

Muscleaddict where do you read all this stuff bro? Would love to do some intense research like this if you can call it intense haha...

You can register on medical news sites like medscape.com and search their archives or find clinical studies and info on clincialtrials.gov, FDA's site, Pubmed, national health library of medicine (nlm.nih.gov). I enjoy reading the facts about the crazy shit I put in my body when I have the time Knowledge is power.