clomid

Pyroclasm wrote:

Chem1 wrote: Been awhile since looking at it but I'd still add it based the conclusion I came to. Obviously is just support for the main player. You could also add DAA or trib as support.

I don't understand, why add something if it will have no effect? DAA is proven to work if and only if your test levels are low. Tribulis has no effect on normal males, and only a slight effect on infertile men.

I believe Stinging Nettle Root does work thats why I'd PERSONALLY add it. But you don't have to.

Chem1 wrote: It's a fine line. From what I've been led to believe 10mg will do exactly as you say but the whizz kids i learn from calculate that 5mg dbol timed with AM test spike will not have that effect and will just boost it a little more and the half life makes it so that it falls with it also.

It's a bit like how GHRP and Mod-129 work they boost natural GH levels especially when timed correctly (post wo, pre bed etc because thats when gh levels will be highest).

Dbol does not boost testosterone levels at ANY dose.

Are you being a smart ass? I think its quite obvious what I mean. Re-word it for everyone if you want to be exact. Geez

Simple .. show me before blood results, run the Dianabol and show me your bloods again.. until then it shuts you down

When rhino gets he's bloods done we could have a better understanding of this situation

00pump wrote: Simple .. show me before blood results, run the Dianabol and show me your bloods again.. until then it shuts you down

Lol. Literally, only death will shut Chem1 down

Let's remember boys, I didn't open this thread pushing something, DK posted a question and I answered it. He went on to ask another bunch of questions to which I answered with studies and some theories. But backs are going up? Lol

Bro carry on, it's good to think outside the box, however if you going against the norm you will need to show bloods over a period of time to be in lign with your thinking

I don't need to show you anything at all because I'm not trying to prove anything lol If what I say interests you you can go dig deeper. However if I was trying to push a new idea on to other people I'd have a responsibility to back up my claims.

Guys I don't want to step on anyone's toes , but I personally think if this could be profane to work , or that we could figure out a way how this could work ,that it could be very useful in the future with keeping gains during and after pct especially between cycles

DK, I'll leave that up to you and these guys. Hope I helped ya anyways.

Sounds pretty interesting... Anyone have any other insight or experience with the clomid only approach? For a natty looking for a little edge could this maybe help?

Just wondering if it is possible that Clomid could down regulate natural testosterone levels once you get off it? And I'm assuming that it would be best to keep an eye on e2 levels during the cycle.

Maybe if you around 30 years old, if you younger it will not help one little bit

00pump wrote: Maybe if you around 30 years old, if you younger it will not help one little bit

Not true age doesn't necessarily matter due to the way the drug works. Let me frame it this way: you have a theoretical maximum amount of natural GnRH/LHRH production at the hypothalamus as well as a maximum amount of natural LH and FSH production at the pituitary. If you take something like a GnRH (super)agonist or something that stimulates LH production (like Clomid), you can make more than you could naturally, much like you can make more GH than normal by taking a synthetic GHRH analog.

Males probably hit there theoretical natural maximum GnRH and LH production at 16-20 years of age and it's difficult to exceed that if not impossible to exceed those without dosing GnRH agonists, Clomid, etc. You can match and possibly exceed your total test levels at that age by maintaining that set point (like eating correctly or taking things that "feed" the steroidogenesis pathway), but suffice to say, the set point has a specific maximum (just like no matter how long you take GHS peptides, when you stop, you'll eventually be making normal physiological pulses) that won't be exceeded without use of pharmaceuticals, etc. So you see, you need not be over 30 with fleeting testosterone levels in order for clomid to raise testosterone levels. It will produce more regardless of set point.

Also, here are a couple examples of blood work done on Clomid only.

My experience on 25mg clomid 3 times a week for about a month:

Total Testosterone -1502
Free testosterone - 223.5
Estradiol - 53

I forgot to get the test in the early morning, this test was taken at 11:38. My last testosterone test prior to this one was in the mid 500s about 18 months ago.

And Another:

Interesting you should mention this. I have had my testosterone levels checked when using clomiphene at 25mg EOD and for me at least it was inferior to 25mg daily. Both tests were taken at the same time of day (early afternoon not the usual morning test when levels are generally higher) with the 25mg EOD having a very little effect and 25mg daily having a very pronounced effect in raising testosterone. The results were going by memory (if not exact then very close) 750ng/dl for the EOD dose and 1150ng/dl for 25mg daily.

And one for luck

Tested value (ref range)
Total T = 948.8 (348-1197 ng/dL)
Free T = 19.6 (6.8-21.5 pg/mL)
LH = 10.5 High (1.7-8.6 mIU/mL)
FSH = 10.3 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
SHBG = 34.2 (16.5-55.9 nmol/L)
ESTRADIOL = 13.5 (7.6-42.6 pg/mL)

Clomid @ 25mg/day
nettle root tea 2x/day
DAA @ 3g 2x/day

For one month (4 weeks)

Previous total T was 333 ng/dL

Outlaw #19 wrote: Sounds pretty interesting... Anyone have any other insight or experience with the clomid only approach? For a natty looking for a little edge could this maybe help?

Just wondering if it is possible that Clomid could down regulate natural testosterone levels once you get off it? And I'm assuming that it would be best to keep an eye on e2 levels during the cycle.

It wont down regulate anything. But the increased testosterone will eventually full back to your normal range.

Its worth a shot if you are interested in natty enhancement. Theres's a lot of other PEDs out there someone could put together for a decent overall enhancement program without running a full on cycle IMO.

Those values look normal for somebody in there early 20s.. and nothing at all looks interesting in your free testosterone (which is the one that matters)

Clomid for somebody that is in there 20s is a waste and just adding toxicity to their bodies.

Wrong again. But you can take those examples out the equation and just try wrap your head around how the drug functions then you'll see whats up.

Remind me to never take advice from this guy lol

Is see that clomid raises test levels but not that much the free test levels , if you were to add in proviron , because is known for its ability to free up test , would these 2 compounds complement each other in any way??

The clomid to raise the test levels and the proviron to create some free roaming test??

And on top of your inaccurate assumptions Chem1, Tamoxifen is a much more effective SERM with lower side effects.

Anyway this is the reason I stopped writing on this forum.. it is because of youngsters trying to make a 'name' out of their nick alias.. Chem1 I have seen so many of you come and go, so enjoy feeding people inaccurate informatoin.

donkiekong wrote: Is see that clomid raises test levels but not that much the free test levels , if you were to add in proviron , because is known for its ability to free up test , would these 2 compounds complement each other in any way??

The clomid to raise the test levels and the proviron to create some free roaming test??

Sting nettle root Proviron can shut you down. Especially prolonged dosing. I am not really well versed on Proviron though.

00pump wrote: And on top of your inaccurate assumptions Chem1, Tamoxifen is a much more effective SERM with lower side effects.

Anyway this is the reason I stopped writing on this forum.. it is because of youngsters trying to make a 'name' out of their nick alias.. Chem1 I have seen so many of you come and go, so enjoy feeding people inaccurate informatoin.

What are you talking about?

EDIT: To me you just seem like a hater. I like to share info and help people where i can and I NEVER lie or mislead or say shit I am not confident in.

If the Mods want to echo your words I'll leave because I'm wasted here.

@chemi1 - I'm really interested in finding a way to bridge between cycle as 2015 is my prep year for my 2016 novice season , I really want to try my hand at a competition , so a bridge between cycles keeping me a bit anabolic to keep gains in pct and after pct would help

@00pump - when using temoxifen (nolvadex) on its own , will this raise test levels?

And maybe a bonus question , what will the use of temoxifen on its own do?

I have hear of a few people using nolvadex in the early stages of gyno in stead of letro , but that is about the onley reason I have heard people use nolvadex , for early stages of gyno and pct

donkiekong wrote: @chemi1 - I'm really interested in finding a way to bridge between cycle as 2015 is my prep year for my 2016 novice season , I really want to try my hand at a competition , so a bridge between cycles keeping me a bit anabolic to keep gains in pct and after pct would help

Bridging is not my thing bud. But I'm sure you can put the pieces together with the available info.

I look forward to hearing 00pump reply.

@chemi1 - would you rather do a cycle , pct and the take the approach of cycle+pct = time of cycle and the run another cycle

donkiekong,leave the bridging honestly bro it's not worth it....you can get great results without it....
I think pump is trying to advocate safe usage of substances and saying 'try putting as less in your body as possible'

it's a always good to get new perspective especially in our game but everything you hear I believe must always be taken with a 'pinch of salt'

A bridge when done correctly , or if someone figures out a way to bridge between cycles safely without interfering with recovery and test levels it will be a game changer

So I'm not saying that I'm going to begin with a bridge in my 1ste or 2de cycle but some day it might come in handy