Possible Gyno

Hi guys

I’m doing 300mg test E a week while on lockdown, was on 600mg test E before lockdown. And still using 5mg aromasin a day.
I was also doing superdrol before lockdown and was on it for 8 days ( can superdrol cause prolactin issues? I do not have Cabergoline onhand.. )
Was also doing 20mg ostarine a day for a shoulder injury for about 6 weeks.

I feel a small lump under my left nipple, possibly growing, I’m not sure yet.
What can be done?
Increasing aromasin or switching to arimidex?

I feel like it should be impossible to be getting gyno, but I would appreciate all and any advice.

Thanks guys

Getting gyno is never impossible.

Try a small dose of Adex, but don't overreact and just add a small dosage without changing anything else.

Whilst I was doing my rotation in surgery we were commonly presented with men complaining of gynocomastia. The most common offending agent was the ARVs they were taking. How did we treat them? We used Tamoxifen (Nolva) at a dose of 20mg for 3 months to 6 months (depending on the size of the lump - larger = longer treatment) ( www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14759718 ). Did this work? Sort Of. Definitely reduced the size of the lump but the lump was still there. The best way to get rid of the Gyno was a combination of Tamoxifen and altering which ARV they were on (Stop the offending agent).

You will see in a lot of the medical literature that AIs have demonstrated no effect on Gyno as compared to the placebos especially in Teenage Boys. Thus, it is not commonly used in practice. But they still have they're place. They will prevent the development of gyno but don't do much if it is already there.

So my advice would be to use Tamoxifen at a dose of 20mg daily for more than 3 months and see if there is regression. That's if you want to reduce the size of the lump. I would continue the AI also to prevent further progression. However, I would not recommend using a high dose as AIs don't come without their downsides.

Hope This Helps

Interesting Reads:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK279105/
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11546925

P.S.
How do I know my gyno isn't breat cancer?
Breast cancer does occur in males! Although rare it's important to check because men have a worse prognosis when compared to women because we present to the doctor late because we don't check our breast.
Gyno: This is a lump underneath the nipple (typically)
Breast Cancer: This tends to be a lump that is eccentric to the nipple.

Okay will do, thank you Admin!

Will do letronif it doesn’t get better with adex.
Getting paranoid now that it could be cancer.. But it only started happening once I started the cycle so I doubt it.
But thank you for the great advice.

how are you doing your test? once a week? also, how are you getting to 5mg Aromasin a day?

I was doing shots twice a week. But i did get sick (am still sick and was worried for the covid virus) so I stopped my test for about a week now. Could it be because of blood levels?


LP has 5 mg aromasin

i find if i do infrequent dosing, e2 shoots up. i don't do cycles much these days and stick to my try of less than 200mg weekly, but when i do, i don't up my test dosing, i may add in low dose orals or low dose injectables, but i keep my weekly dosing less that 650mg total.

Admin I’m thinking of rather taking 20mg Aromasin EOD instead of 5mg ED?
I feel like if 5mg ED is not working for me, I can bump up the dosage and see what happens, or is that ill advised?

I have a question !

Lets say you do develop gyno and you start taking tamoxifen 20mg everyday ... How do you spike IGF-1 levels back up ? Just wait it out or use IGF-1 lr3 ? Any advice would be much appreciated

growth hormone usage would spike igf1. how ever it is not something that you want to stay on long term. find the lowest dose of test that doesn't cause gyno, and run other compounds with your test base, such as Masteron,NPP,equi,Anavar. now I say NPP cos if it makes your gyno worse you can dump it and it is out the system quickly

if test is causing gyno at high doses then logic has it that you should use high dose test.

you want to be on as few compounds as possible for the best results.

Mmhh . Didnt think of the npp honestly. I have one study saved on my pc of how it increases mRNA for IGF-1...

Thanks for the advice.

Hi guys, an update on my situation.

I’ve done 500mg test cypt a week for 15 weeks previously, while barely needing any AI, probably used 5-10 drops arimidex a week.

I’m on 300mg test E now, had a lump underneath my left nipple which has grown now, small one forming underneath my right nipple now.

I’ve used 5mg aromasin a day, I’ve bumped it up to 20mg aromasin a day, for 4 days now.

Still getting worse, my estrogen hasn’t crashed that I know of, I thought 20mg aromasin would possibly do that, nothing so far.

Should I give it more time while on 20mg aromasin?

Could the aromasin not be working or fake? I doubt it’s fake, using a brand that I known is trusted by everyone on this forum.

Should I leave the aromasin completely and use arimidex that I have onhand.

Jacques777 wrote: Hi guys, an update on my situation.

I’ve done 500mg test cypt a week for 15 weeks previously, while barely needing any AI, probably used 5-10 drops arimidex a week.

I’m on 300mg test E now, had a lump underneath my left nipple which has grown now, small one forming underneath my right nipple now.

I’ve used 5mg aromasin a day, I’ve bumped it up to 20mg aromasin a day, for 4 days now.

Still getting worse, my estrogen hasn’t crashed that I know of, I thought 20mg aromasin would possibly do that, nothing so far.

Should I give it more time while on 20mg aromasin?

Could the aromasin not be working or fake? I doubt it’s fake, using a brand that I known is trusted by everyone on this forum.

Should I leave the aromasin completely and use arimidex that I have onhand.

How long you still running the test for? Do you still have the arimidex ? I have had my best success with Arimidex, 0.5mg twice a week (anymore and bloods show its non existent), give it time to work. Are you using hCH at all, that will cause a massive flare-up for a few days after injections. I don't find aromasin the best method neither Letro (crash and get sick) and please never run these silly high doses of Letro it doesn't do a thing bar take you down and you wasting your time with a SERM, what it shows on paper as to what it does for steroid users are two different things. I have been off gear for 3 months now and I have 0 pain in my nipple anymore, and my lump has gone to about 2 10th of the size. Using Arimidex and HCG for PCT as per my endo. However you shooting in the dark without bloods for test and e2, I believe mine is because my body is balanced, my ratios are looking good and I've run a prolong dose of arimidex, nice and steady. Crashing your estrogen will not reverse this. Also don't touch the area.

I started it at 600mg, alongside superdrol, was on for 8 days.
Because of the lockdown I went down to 300 to stay anabolic.
I wanted to continue my 15 week cycle after lockdown, so I still have a long time to go.

I still have lots of arimidex yes.

No hCH, but I did use mk677 for about 3 weeks, stopped it because of lockdown as well. Wanted to continue after lockdown.

Would you suggest I stop the aromasin completely, and switch to arimidex?

On a side note, I also got sick when lockdown started, was prescribed anti biotics, had to do 2 courses because the first one didn’t work, first course was 5 days Zanet I think, the second course was 7 days Augmentin, and to be honest, my lumps started just after finishing the Augmentin.

Thanks for the quick reply Pump!

Jacques777 wrote: I started it at 600mg, alongside superdrol, was on for 8 days.
Because of the lockdown I went down to 300 to stay anabolic.
I wanted to continue my 15 week cycle after lockdown, so I still have a long time to go.

I still have lots of arimidex yes.

No hCH, but I did use mk677 for about 3 weeks, stopped it because of lockdown as well. Wanted to continue after lockdown.

Would you suggest I stop the aromasin completely, and switch to arimidex?

On a side note, I also got sick when lockdown started, was prescribed anti biotics, had to do 2 courses because the first one didn’t work, first course was 5 days Zanet I think, the second course was 7 days Augmentin, and to be honest, my lumps started just after finishing the Augmentin.

Thanks for the quick reply Pump!

When did you stop the superdrol ? That stuff caused me issues. Keep running the aromasin 5mg for a few days while you switch back to Arimidex. I'm currently using 2mg a week, but thats due to the high dose of hcg.

I stopped the superdrol 17 days ago. I believe 3 days before lockdown.

Could it be the issue? I’m not sure if it could cause prolactin issues, but if not that, why would it do this?

Okay cool, I’ll switch back to arimidex and use aromasin for a couple of days.

Jacques777 wrote: I stopped the superdrol 17 days ago. I believe 3 days before lockdown.

Could it be the issue? I’m not sure if it could cause prolactin issues, but if not that, why would it do this?

Okay cool, I’ll switch back to arimidex and use aromasin for a couple of days.

A guess could be that superdrol played a part, i find going back to basics helps me workout what's going on. Blood tests are the only way to know what you working with. But after 3 gyno surgeries down I have tried all approaches, what I find is getting my body as balanced as possible helps manage and somewhat reverse the issue. Nolva I find makes things more complicated and actually worse. When running Nolva I find it turns an already bad situation worse by making the tissue more puffy. I ran the year cycle with bloods but found that 0.5 arimidex twice a week left me with just about not estrogen however PCT it was increased to 2mg a way split up and this is the first time I've seen it going back the other way, but it has taken some serious time and also a drop in bodyfat im guessing is helping things too. I used to be so painful that when my daughter touched my chest I wanted to jump on the roof, now no pain what so ever and this is after gyno being here for around 3 years in which I've putting off a 4th surgery.

I’ll try that approach then pump, thank you for all the information, I appreciate it a lot, I’ll give another update in a week.

00pump wrote:

Jacques777 wrote: I stopped the superdrol 17 days ago. I believe 3 days before lockdown.

Could it be the issue? I’m not sure if it could cause prolactin issues, but if not that, why would it do this?

Okay cool, I’ll switch back to arimidex and use aromasin for a couple of days.

A guess could be that superdrol played a part, i find going back to basics helps me workout what's going on. Blood tests are the only way to know what you working with. But after 3 gyno surgeries down I have tried all approaches, what I find is getting my body as balanced as possible helps manage and somewhat reverse the issue. Nolva I find makes things more complicated and actually worse. When running Nolva I find it turns an already bad situation worse by making the tissue more puffy. I ran the year cycle with bloods but found that 0.5 arimidex twice a week left me with just about not estrogen however PCT it was increased to 2mg a way split up and this is the first time I've seen it going back the other way, but it has taken some serious time and also a drop in bodyfat im guessing is helping things too. I used to be so painful that when my daughter touched my chest I wanted to jump on the roof, now no pain what so ever and this is after gyno being here for around 3 years in which I've putting off a 4th surgery.

Hi 00pump.

Would you mind giving out more info on gyno removal surgery? As in recovery time and how long the surgery actually takes and what it entails?

My apologies if that question was a bit forward.

I found an interesting topic and read on superdrol and gyno.

superdrol gyno cause/solution
a great article at muscular development site about why ppl get gyno from superdrol cycles and some guidelines to combat this issue.. i dunno about the truth in this article as it is the opinion of the author, but lets have a good discussion about this due to the large number of ppl here that do superdrol clone cycles.

www.musculardevelopment.com/c.../view/1706/57/

Q: Why do people get gyno after a cycle of superdrol? Superdrol is non-aromatizing, so there should be no estrogen problem, right? So is it a progesterone thing or something? Also, do you think a SHBG binder is a good thing post-cycle?


A: Superdrol is 2a,17a-dimethyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol-3-one. It is, like you said, a non-aromatizing steroid. Technically speaking, it is a DHT derivative and it is a very potent compound. It can shut your hypothalamic pituitary testicular axis (HPTA) down quite readily and profoundly.

I don?t believe this post-cycle gyno has anything to do with progesterone, as superdrol does not possess any of the structural characteristics associated with progestational steroids. In all likelihood, the post-cycle gyno is an estrogen-related phenomenon brought on by altered androgen/estrogen balance. During the superdrol cycle, the balance of androgens to estrogens in the body is greatly shifted toward androgens, as you are experiencing suppression of estrogen (secondary to testicular shutdown) while simultaneously having a very strong androgen coursing through your system.

Now, of course everything is fine and dandy with estrogen being suppressed and androgen predominating. But what happens when you stop your cycle? The big problem here has to do with the inhibitory effects of androgens upon estrogen receptor expression and what happens when this effect is suddenly eliminated. I am not talking about androgens blocking estrogen receptors; I am talking about androgens interfering with the ability of estrogens to carry out their signal at the genes themselves. In other words, this is a post-receptor phenomenon.

In the post-cycle period, you experience a precipitous drop in androgen levels and therefore a drop in the suppression of estrogen receptor signaling. Now, even though estrogen levels are very low, you are put into a period of exquisite sensitivity to their actions so it?s still a dangerous time. Of course, this is one reason why people resort to the use of estrogen receptor antagonists such as tamoxifen during this time period (the other reason is to help restore endogenous testosterone production).

But eventually, you have to come off the estrogen blockers. We know from the use of agents such as tamoxifen in breast cancer patients who extend use of them that this can actually lead to estrogen hypersensitivity. So unless you have simultaneously raised your testosterone levels up high enough, you are going to be right back in the same boat. At this point, additional use of an aromatase inhibitor might be wise, as it will allow your testosterone levels to continue to recover while keeping the androgen/estrogen ratio in a healthy range. Once a healthy level of testosterone is achieved, then discontinuation should leave you with a normal endocrine balance and estrogen response.

Anyway, the bottom line here is that these people simply did not follow through with their PCT long enough. They underestimated the suppressive potential of the superdrol. Just because something is over-the-counter does not mean it should not be treated seriously.

Now for the second part of your question. SHBG as you know means sex hormone-binding globulin and it is a protein that circulates around in your system and binds to?well?sex hormones. By sex hormones, we mean androgens and estrogens, and I think this is something a lot of people forget (the estrogen part, that is). So SHBG limits the amount of androgen that is bioavailable (which is undesirable), but at the same time it protects us from being overwhelmed by estrogens.

The good news with SHBG is that it binds testosterone and DHT more tightly than it does estradiol, so testosterone and DHT activity is more sensitive to fluctuations in levels of SHBG. This theoretically may allow us to advantageously manipulate the post-cycle endocrinological milieu through the use of natural substances known to be competitive substrates for SHBG (SHBG binders).

My (and once again this is theoretical) way of best incorporating a SHBG binder into post-cycle therapy might be as follows. You start off with a good dose of a selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) such as tamoxifen, which should effectively prevent estrogen receptors from being activated by endogenous estrogens. Then after two or three weeks, you add in an aromatase inhibitor for a week or so after which you drop the SERM and continue on the aromatase inhibitor, along with the SHBG for another two to four weeks.

At this time, you hopefully will have re-established a normal level of testosterone along with normal estrogen receptor sensitivity.

00pump wrote:
Using Arimidex and HCG for PCT as per my endo. H

Sounds like a very good endo.

Sorry if it is off topic, do you run HCG a couple weeks after your last cypionate ester injection or immediately after your cycle. And have you found you keep arimidex dosing roughly what it was on cycle (and allow for some correction based on how things go)?

MPhilosopher wrote:

00pump wrote:
Using Arimidex and HCG for PCT as per my endo. H

Sounds like a very good endo.

Sorry if it is off topic, do you run HCG a couple weeks after your last cypionate ester injection or immediately after your cycle. And have you found you keep arimidex dosing roughly what it was on cycle (and allow for some correction based on how things go)?

On TRT based on bloods I had my estrogen sweet spot at 0.5mg twice a week. He had me using HCG at 2500iu a week in 2 shots. That was to speed up the process (when stopping) in wanting a child still while being on Test year round or else the HCG would not have been used. Then to PCT he increased the Arimidex to 0.5 4 times a week, so my protocol is Monday, Wed, Friday, Sunday back to Monday again. HCG was increased to 5000iu split into 3 shots a week, this protocol is for 3 months or until my Test levels are where they supposed to be (needed to have done bloods already).

Pacho123 wrote:

00pump wrote:

Jacques777 wrote: I stopped the superdrol 17 days ago. I believe 3 days before lockdown.

Could it be the issue? I’m not sure if it could cause prolactin issues, but if not that, why would it do this?

Okay cool, I’ll switch back to arimidex and use aromasin for a couple of days.

Hi 00pump.

Would you mind giving out more info on gyno removal surgery? As in recovery time and how long the surgery actually takes and what it entails?

My apologies if that question was a bit forward.

1) Costs anywhere from just over 25k to around 65k if you going to one of these top plastic surgeon. Most of the cost comes from the plastic surgeon fee and theater, if using a general surgeon its far cheaper (their fee) but you still have to cover the hospital costs. If you going in for an op for something else, now is a good idea to ask if they mind having a general surgeon work on you quickly while you under, then you have just the surgeons cost which brings it down to about 16k.

2) Drains? Yes if you having a mastectomy (so to speak) this is a very extreme surgery and I had two surgeons work on me when I did this, the general who removed the lumps and tissue and the plastic surgeon who cleaned it up so I had a flat chest. That was my second surgery, first and third I never had drains.

3) Recovery? Pretty quick, about 5 days with the drains. Bandage / plaster off within 10 days, looks very neat, small scar around the nipple, I struggle with keloid, so its a little more visible but not much, most of these clinics / hospitals have other services in them like laser and creams which really help the scaring, but again it's so small, half the nipple cut, folded down, the tissue scraped out of that hole. Back to gym when you ready as raising your hands very high is a bit tight but about 3 weeks max.

4) Can it come back? Most certainly.

5) Make sure if you using a general surgeon that he has done this op before or else you could land up with big indent in your nipple and be more upset.

6) My advise if you know certain steroids flare things up worse for you don't use them. Don't think running things on their own without test will prevent gyno that I learnt the hard way, you want testosterone in your body. But the most important thing is to do bloods, workout where your sweet spot is with estrogen, make sure it isn't non existent (you will kill your joints and immune system). Often its running higher in the background then we feel our nipples tingle or a small lump then we try dose up on an AI (again just taking someone's post of dosing either bro science or an individual dose) and we run that not knowing if our estrogen is actually being managed properly (again we want balanced results). The issue with that is you have already run into a problem and a very aggressive approach will not speed up the process. If you get gyno and its not going away you want to now get your body as balanced as possible. You want your bloods in a range your endo is happy with (a good endo someone who really wants to help you feel your best) then you find the gyno starts to go away on its own (you will be amazed how you think your body is right because you slap bang in the middle here but its all about ranges working together, seeing how my endo works with me is like watching someone write some hardcore math).

If you still on cycle, do your bloods for e2, prolactin is a different story and workout the sweet spot of an AI. If 1mg of Letro a week suppresses all your estrogen why go and do 2.5mg a day? You only going to screw yourself up. So bottom line, when using steroids know the dose of an AI to have controlled estrogen and do bloods at least once if it's a long cycle to make sure your dosing is on point. If you have gyno, it isn't going away with medication, it can get a bit smaller but the next cycle it's flared up again, surgery is the only answer, so rather do what you can not to get it in the first place.

Hi guys

This is another update.
Pump, I decided to do 0,5mg arimidex a day for a week, to see if the lumps stop growing, no succes.
0,5mg or 13 drops arimidex a day and left nipple lump is still growing, not visible yet, right side lump is slowly growing too.
I think there’s multiple lumps now under my left nipple, or it could be that I’m just feeling muscle, but the original lump is definitely growing.
Still on 300mg test E a week spread out in 2 shots a week.

Should I increase the arimidex dosage?
Just to confirm, I was using 20mg aromasin a day for almost about a week before this.
I don’t have any bloods, but my joints still feel fine( I have crashed my estrogen before and I have a good idea what the feeling is), nipples aren’t sore, but definitely sensitive and get hard if I even look at them for to long.
Sex drive is still good too.

Not sure what my next move should be?

Thanks guys