Possible Gyno

Lower the test to 150mg, don't go over 0.5 4x a week that alone is overkill. Stop touching your nipples, honestly... Don't do anything else and report back in 2 weeks after not touching them and lowering the adex and test dose, you expecting magic.

I'm telling you your estrogen is non existent.. Just be patient. To validate do bloods, we just need your estrogen at this point.

Don't take HCH now..

Okay shot, will do.
Thanks pump

Just so you know this last onset of gyno become extremely large and I couldn't touch my nipple, if my daughter touched anywhere on my chest I would freak out. I was planning my 4th op, but then I got working with my endo and this wasn't even the topic, but by him balancing my hormones things have rapidly gotten better. This is nearly a year and a half later, but its about 2 10th of the size and no pain what so ever. So just hang in there, running adex each day you going to get nasty side effects and get no added benefits. My endo is not afraid of high dose protocols, but never once ramped my AI to that level. Then again he refuses to write a script without blooods, he only works on facts and what the data states.

Hi pump, I’ve never done bloods, but is there any other place it could be done except like lancet?
I’ve heard guys talking at the gym about a place near my gym that do bloods, but that was ages ago..

Whats wrong with Lancet. I've just got my e2 back and its at at < 42.. aka no existent.. So it goes in to confirm using stupid doses is not needed unless your bloods show otherwise.

I’ve heard Lancet is expensive, but honestly haven’t phoned it myself, will do though, how much does an E2 test cost?

Global labs, clinpath labs, lab24, there are a few labs out there.

You done your bloods yet? We want to try have your e2 on around 60. Post once you have the results.

Hi pump, I’m getting bloods done next week monday.
Will update then, thank you pump

Okay looks like I can only do the test next week friday.
They asked me if I’d like to do Progesterone, Test and Estrogen tests.
I said I only want Estrogen test.

Jacques777 wrote: Okay looks like I can only do the test next week friday.
They asked me if I’d like to do Progesterone, Test and Estrogen tests.
I said I only want Estrogen test.

If you have the money do them if not don't but progesterone can cause issues but there would have to be a reason why it has been increased

Got my estrogen results, they only told me it was “normal”, I phoned them, the reception lady could only tell me that my estrogen is less than 70. So I don’t have an exact number.
Still on 0,5mg arimidex twice a week.

Jacques777 wrote: Got my estrogen results, they only told me it was “normal”, I phoned them, the reception lady could only tell me that my estrogen is less than 70. So I don’t have an exact number.
Still on 0,5mg arimidex twice a week.

We really need those numbers to know if to increase 0.5 daily (max dose you should ever need to go), want to try suppress it just under 60, could possible even push it to 50 or just below, but need the results.

Do you have tingly sensations or has that gone? This is a very slow process. The good news is we know it's not high so no need for crazy doses or to chance the medicine you using, time might be the only thing that helps now.

I’ll try and phone again tomorrow, I have no tingling sensations, nips are definitely more sensitive, but they were sensitive on my previous cycle as well, which I just ignore.
Lumps are still there, possibly bigger I’m not sure.

What is your goal? Is focusing on the gyno prize one? Are you prepared to come off cycle and use Arimidex for a few months? Or do you want to focus on muscles and see where it goes ? I personally find my gyno gets better when I'm off anabolics.

Its very possible you are way past complete reversal. The sensation from your last cycle was the tissue growing. This doesn't come over night. And I am yet to be able to revert it completely without surgery.

I preferably want to focus on gaining muscle and seeing where it goes, with out getting gyno.
I understand that my last cycle could of caused the tissue growth, but I’ve never even had the slightest lump, as soon as I started this cycle I noticed a change, it slowed down drastically when I started arimidex, but if my estrogen isn’t high, its not suppose to continue growing?

Jacques777 wrote: I preferably want to focus on gaining muscle and seeing where it goes, with out getting gyno.
I understand that my last cycle could of caused the tissue growth, but I’ve never even had the slightest lump, as soon as I started this cycle I noticed a change, it slowed down drastically when I started arimidex, but if my estrogen isn’t high, its not suppose to continue growing?

It still can for awhile and will if you play with it. We can rule out your estrogen being high due to your bloods. Gyno is a funny thing one moment its not there the next it is and then its there to stay. Focus on keeping your bodyfat low, under 12 percent and please phone for the exact reading as we may be able to slightly ramp up the arimidex.

I phoned again, the receptionist assured me the only thing on the blood test result was that my estrogen was lower than 70, I asked her: so now I don’t know if it could be to low, she replied “doctor says your estrogen is normal”.
I did my bloods at an Ampath clinic near my house, will do it somewhere else next time.
I haven’t touched my nipples af all, only yesterday to feel if the lumps have grown, but honestly they do not feel tingly or anything, only extra sensitive.

And also, my nips are hard 90% of the day, if my shirt touches them or if my girlfriend puts her hand near them, they get hard for almost nothing.

Hey Jacques !
I use ampath each time i can for 1 reason. They have an app that tracks everything. You can download the app and download the pdf for your bloodtests. Just need to put in your details and stuff.

Each time i went to ampath or phoned them. The receptionists were either bitchy or arrogant. (Ironic that we keep our E2 emotions in check when we need to get them tested)

Hope it helps !

vladtheimpaler wrote: Hey Jacques !
I use ampath each time i can for 1 reason. They have an app that tracks everything. You can download the app and download the pdf for your bloodtests. Just need to put in your details and stuff.

Each time i went to ampath or phoned them. The receptionists were either bitchy or arrogant. (Ironic that we keep our E2 emotions in check when we need to get them tested)

Hope it helps !

You mean Lancet?

Jacques777 wrote: And also, my nips are hard 90% of the day, if my shirt touches them or if my girlfriend puts her hand near them, they get hard for almost nothing.

You just going into detail of the gyno. Can you ask to speak to the Dr?

photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMDO6bKxjPn...ZGKzx64udW89mSXEe5mm

I hope that works, it shows that the doctor ordered that my results be sent straight to his office, it doesn’t show my results on the ampath app.
I asked to speak to the doctor, they refused unless I pay a consultation fee, which I refused.
So I only know now my estrogen is below 70.

An update, for the last 3 days I’ve had pain in both my nipples and area surrounding, it comes and goes in waves.
Also, I’ve noticed joint pain in my wrist and knees and hip when exercising, and also when just laying down. So that indicates that my estrogen is very low, if even existent. I’ve stopped pinning for a week now, going to start pct in 23 days.

Jacques777 wrote: photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMDO6bKxjPn...ZGKzx64udW89mSXEe5mm

I hope that works, it shows that the doctor ordered that my results be sent straight to his office, it doesn’t show my results on the ampath app.
I asked to speak to the doctor, they refused unless I pay a consultation fee, which I refused.
So I only know now my estrogen is below 70.

An update, for the last 3 days I’ve had pain in both my nipples and area surrounding, it comes and goes in waves.
Also, I’ve noticed joint pain in my wrist and knees and hip when exercising, and also when just laying down. So that indicates that my estrogen is very low, if even existent. I’ve stopped pinning for a week now, going to start pct in 23 days.

pain in the nipples and sore joints? that is a bit of a conundrum, in my opinion, if you have tanked estrogen you wouldn't have sore nipples.

my suggestion is to take 0.2ml of test e in a Slin pin 2x a week, you will be able to do it Sub q but quite a few guys say that it causes irritation, so maybe to IM injections with those little needles, a small amount of oil that shallow into a muscle will be fine as long as you massage it for about 2 mins after injection to help it dissipate, I would also drop the ANY AI at this stage.

do this for 3 weeks and then you should be able to start pct 2-3 weeks after that, 120mg of test a week will be perfect at this stage to bring back your estrogen levels.

what I don't want to happen is see you having tanked your estrogen and then you go and start having a diminishing testosterone level, that is a recipe for "post comp blues" for a better name for it.

this happens when guys drop all test a couple of weeks out from a show, and then run-heavy doses of AI's and usually have an e2 bounce back. Now I know you are using a suicide inhibitor, but I still think there could be a possible bounce back and with diminishing levels of testosterone this is a recipe for depression, anxiety, loss of libido, etc.

start using some tamoxifen for the next couple days, I would say 10mg a day at this stage, remember tamoxifen acts as a synthetic estrogen in the body, but manages to block the estrogen receptor in the breast tissue, however for the rest of the body it can "raise" e2. if it is as powerful as natural estrogen, I am not sure, but for what you are dealing with right now, I would suggest this.

Now moving forward what are you going to do for a cycle? well, I would suggest taking note how you body responds to his minute dosing of testosterone, if you still have estrogen issues, you are going to have to go in a completely different route, and I would suggest running something like an Equi and Masteron cycle.

Equi is a testosterone derivative and converts to estrogen at about 20-40% of what testosterone does, so it can still have a powerful effect on the libido still, so I have seen some guys using Equi as TRT however they have to use double the dosing for an effective TRT. so if using 100-150mg a week of test, you are going to need to run 200-300mg a week Equi. Now, there is still the affinity to convert to estrogen so Masteron would take care of that over an AI, 100mg a week of long-acting is spot on. Lowers SHBG and stops some aromatization and gives you those leaner harder gains, and it is an anabolic that doesn't fuck up your blood lipid profile as an AI does. I tend to lean towards incorporating Masteron in all my clients cycles if there is no test in it.

Rhino, one of the old-time forum members, and I are working together, and he went on a fat loss phase after getting a bit bent out of shape, we got him from 117kg down to 104 kgs, each week getting stronger and stronger, he also had quite a bit of fat so I didn't want any aromatization happening, so we ran a cycle of 300mg of Equi, and 30mg Anavar daily with 25mg Proviron. So 510mg of anabolics a week and other than being low-calorie, and sex drive dipping 4 to 5 days after his skipload each week, progress happened every week. what relevance has this got? I am showing you that you don't need to use test as the base of your cycles if you have estrogen issues and not make progress.

You can try the method by Empire. I personally find Tamoxifen makes my nipples very puffy. I do agree that you don't want to tank your testosterone. For years I tried to run cycles without testosterone thinking without testosterone and any other compounds that do not convert or do so only mildly would be a solution. The only thing that came from that was more gyno and this happened due to suppression, the body wants testosterone.

I personally feel this has been coming for awhile, from your last cycle maybe even the one before that... And now its poked its head out. I will say it again the only way you really able to really give it a good chance at getting smaller is when your hormones are normal, off your cycle. So the two options you have keep cocking around and trying this or that and I'm nearly certain nothing will change or come off and try focus on the gyno. You welcome to carry on and just do an op for for it if you have the money. I know exactly how you feeling now, what that feeling feels like with your nipples too. However even when your estrogen is gone like it is now your nipples can take weeks if not months for things to settle down, my daughter couldn't touch my chest without my losing my marbles. Ride it out and do an operation or come off and let your body balance.

Your PCT is going to be your final hurdle with the HCG. You can then test and see what the Tamoxifen does. What is nice about going to PCT and doing the PCT 3 on this site is it can get your testosterone levels nice and high and you can then do something like 0.5mg arimidex twice a week for the next 3 months after PCT, this will help keep your testosterone levels nice and high and help work on that tissue.

And then back to a point on what Empire said, get your bodyfat right down.