how to begin

Conan wrote:

Clen and ECA start from week 1 and run through to end of PCT start with ECA. Another tip for accelerated fat loss is- do your cardio(even if its for 20min) in the morning first thing before you eat ,you can have your ECA or Clen before cardio and drink only water -with glycogen stores being depleted after sleeping you burn bodyfat for energy with there being no fuel in your gut.

it was discussed in another forum about pre and post work out nutrition and the outcome was before doing your cardio in the am have BCAA's and Whey protein to help muscle retaining,i did that and i found that i didnt feel as if i have lost any stamina/endurance.. that i guess is up to personal preference and i guess its not an exact science....

also if you dont wanna cycle clen and eca and wanna just run with just clen,get hold of ketofin from your local pharmacy,it stops receptor down grade and u can run your clen for as long as u like...that was also discussed in another thread on the forum....

If that is the way you are going with the ketotifin, just adhere to the advice from Doc and don't go over the 120 mcg p/d (3 tabs) and DON'T combine with other thermogenics as ketotifin amplifies the clen and this may cause damage to the heart over a period of time. Also, invest in a thermometer and take your temp a week before you start, first thing when you wake. When you on the clen take it as well and the temp should be raised and you know it's working, when the morning temp goes back to normal, it has lost it's effect and you receptors have been downgraded, this is when you should stop (generally 2 weeks) and this is only if you don't use ketotifin, but you can also monitor your morning temp when on as well, esp if you are going to do long cycles.

thanks netro forgot to add that in...

Conan wrote:

Doc are you suffering with painfull joints?I feel the same way about Deca as Admin does but I must admit there are a lot of people who find Deca very effective for size while keeping fairly lean and as far as joint pain relief goes- Deca is clearly the winner out of all the anabolics.Doc if you are going to be using HGH with this course I dont have to tell you that Bromocriptine will render the HGH almost useless and maybe Proviron might be a better alternative if using HGH(I must tell you that Bromocriptine has always helped me as far as sex drive is concerned and would not take Deca without it)

Conan do you think Bromo affects Exogenous HGH ? I thought it only interfered with natural HGH Secretion but If you are using external HGH it should be ok? What do you think?

I'm not a Bromo fan because it makes me feel stuffy,, but it is once of the more effective prolactin blockers




"Growth hormone and prolactin response to bromocriptine in patients with Huntington's chorea

RJ Chalmers, RH Johnson, HJ Keogh and RN Nanda

The growth hormone (hGH) and prolactin (hPRL) responses to oral bromocriptine were studied in two groups of patients with Huntington's chorea and in seven healthy control subjects. The patients included six patients who had previously been treated with phenothiazines and six patients who had not received phenothiazine treatment. All medication was stopped 72 hours before the investigation which involved taking blood samples for up to 210 minutes after taking bromocriptine (2.5 mg). Plasma samples were analysed for hGH and hPRL. There was no significant difference in basal hGH concentrations between the patients and control subjects. The hGH response to bromocriptine varied in the individual patients but the concentrations were significantly lower in the patients compared with the controls between 160 and 210 minutes. The basal concentrations of hPRL were also not different, apart from the findings of elevated hPRL concentrations in three patients previously treated with phenothiazines. The patients and control subjects showed a consistent fall in hPRL concentrations after taking bromocriptine. The lower peak hGH response to bromocriptine found in the patients suggests that there may be an alteration of dopaminergic neurones mediating hGH release."

Batty glad you pointed that out and its not that I think bromo denatures HGH because it does'nt.Bromo has the effect in people with acromelagy of hindering/slowing the production of HGH by its effect on the pituitary BUT in people with normal HGH concentrations it has the effect of increasing HGH production above the normal levels/concentrations and maybe I should have worded that statement differently because having re-read it I now see hows it looks(I appologise for that)but as most people I know take between 2-4iu's I think it could be wise(and cheaper) to utilize the Bromos effect of increased GH production while taking care of any progesterone related sides and utilise the GH post Bromo use.For the guys in the 6-30iu-of-GH/day range this protocol does not apply.

Ok I get what u saying here....

ARE TRYING TO GET HOLD OF ketotifin HAVE SPOKEN TO MY PHARMASIST HE SAID THE ONLY ONE HE KNOWS OF IS A ANTI ALLERGIC TAB AND SYRIPE IS THIS RIGHT,

its made by BRAND REMOVED and i think the trade name is Zetofin,its a childs cough syrup,any pharmacy sells it...it is straw berry flavoured...it paid R69.00 for a bottle of the stuff,u gonna need 1.5 bottles a month i think someone at said in a previous string...u must start it at the start of ur clen cycle as it takes awhile to kick in,i am jst repeating what was said in previous strings,run a search in the forum for zetofin/ketofin

THANKS FOR YOUR HELP DJEASYE
THIS SITE IS EXCELLENT SORTS OUT ALL THE QUESTIONS
SOME GUYS ON THE STREET CAN CONFUSE THE CRAP OUT OF ME
CAUSE ALL OF THEM SAY SOMETHING DIFF BUT HERE IT ALL MAKES SENSE THANKS A MILL ALL

ARE BUSY GETTING MY COURSE TOGETHER
ONE THING SOME OF MY FRIENDS SAY ON HGH YOU START GETTING BUMPS AND STUFF IN THE WEIRDEST PLACES WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THIS (IF YOU ABBUSE IT BY USING TO MUTCH)

Trevor, ask for Adco-Ketotifen syrup at your pharmacy. It's 1mg Ketotifen per 5ml and comes in a 200ml bottle. Price should be about R60-70

trevor wrote:

ARE BUSY GETTING MY COURSE TOGETHER
ONE THING SOME OF MY FRIENDS SAY ON HGH YOU START GETTING BUMPS AND STUFF IN THE WEIRDEST PLACES WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THIS (IF YOU ABBUSE IT BY USING TO MUTCH)

Read the thread on HCG in the HCH section... Doctari already explained the cause for this.

READ IT AND YES MAKES SENSE JUST LIKE ANYTHING ELSE IN LIFE
TOO MUCH IS NOT GOOD

ARE GOING TO DO THE HGH CYCLE
WHAT SUPPLEMANTS (PROTEIN) DO YOU SUGGEST
EVERYWHERE I GO I HEAR SOMETHING ELSE LIKE NORM

hi admin,is the ketotifen syrup just as good as the pils, coz last time i use the pils 3pils (3mg) b4 bed,but the pils cost about 350rand:angry: for 60,looks like the syrup is alot cheaper,am i corect(if i am why are the pils so much more expensive than the syrup?)how much do u take of the syrup,also 3mg (15ml)all at once or split up during the day,or b4 bed or in the morning?
thankx alot.

jo1 wrote:

hi admin,is the ketotifen syrup just as good as the pils, coz last time i use the pils 3pils (3mg) b4 bed,but the pils cost about 350rand:angry: for 60,looks like the syrup is alot cheaper,am i corect(if i am why are the pils so much more expensive than the syrup?)how much do u take of the syrup,also 3mg (15ml)all at once or split up during the day,or b4 bed or in the morning?
thankx alot.

Yes Jo, the syrup is just as good.

Most generic medicines are cheaper... look at Dostinex and Cabaser; Dostinex sells for about R350 for 2x 0.5mg tabs, but Cabaser goes at R580 for 30x 1mg tabs and the strangest thing of all is that both are made by the same manufacturer.

You can take 3mg (15ml) ketotifen per day in split dosages. Eg. If you take 120mcg Clen per day; split your dose into 3. In other words, take 40mcg Clen + 1mg ketotifen (5ml) three times per day.

Just to quickly clarify something about Bromocryptine. Conan, you are right - it does not have an effect on either endogenous or exogenous HGH - only if you stick to doses of 2,5mg per day. This dose is adequate for suppression of progesteronic side effects as well. But, the doses used medically to suppress HGH sectretion in acromegals only start in the region of 10mg prer day and can increase as to as much as 25mg per day.

thankx admin,what is the cheapest price i can get the syrup at, and whats the cheapest price you seen on the pils? its schedule 2 so i think i can ask this then?
when i got it at the pharmacy a while back they only had the nova labs zatiden,so i thought that was the only ones you can get in sa,and it cost me 380 rand for 60 1mg tabs,making a clen cycle a bid expensive,so admin what brand should i be asking for next time for a better price syrup or pils?
thankx alot!!

HALLO WHERE CAN I GET ALL THE INFO ON THE MAX OT TRAINING COURSE
WANA READ UP ON IT AND WORK MY RAINING COURSE AROUND IT

there u go (File Removed)

otherwise www.ast-ss.com

Hi Everyone,

I've been taking my time reading through as much info on the site trying to work out a plan to start building some lean mass. But needless to say, the more I read, the more confusing it becomes with all the countless options. Any quick guide on how to start on a limited budget with optimal results? Also, how do i interact to get a reliable supplier?

jo1 wrote:

thankx admin,what is the cheapest price i can get the syrup at, and whats the cheapest price you seen on the pils? its schedule 2 so i think i can ask this then?
when i got it at the pharmacy a while back they only had the nova labs
zatiden,so i thought that was the only ones you can get in sa,and it cost me 380 rand for 60 1mg tabs,making a clen cycle a bid expensive,so admin what brand should i be asking for next time for a better price syrup or pils?
thankx alot!!

You will be able to buy Ketotifen anywhere without a prescription. Ask for BRAND REMOVED 's Adco-Ketotifen. Expect to pay between R60 and R70.

widdle, tell us ur age, hight, weight, previous usage, current & past training regime, what you want to achieve ... ect the info ull get here can be measured in gold

And a urine sample ..... :laugh:

CONAN
HALLO YOU STATED THE FOLLOWING IN A PREVIOUS MESSAGE
(HGH inj. are site specific for fat loss(fat loss at injection site) and dont inject in the same place twice, move them around.Hope this is detailed enough.)
PLEASE CAN YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT THIS NORMALLY INJECT IN MY BACK SIDE MUST I GET OTHER PLACES

HALLO NEED SOME ADVICE HAVE JUST DONE A 6 WEEK DECCA COURSE WITH CLEN AND WINSTROL STOPPED IT.
HOW LONG MUST I WAIT AND WHAT MUST I TAKE BEFORE I CAN START MY HGH COURSE (HAVE EVERYTHING TOGETHER)