First cycle for a friend

Hi guys hope everyone is well and gyming hard!!

I have a friend who approached me this week,he wants to start juicing and asked me for guidance.i explained to him the long and short term sides,pct protocol and how his lifestyle would change,I also sent him the link to the site to go through the articles.

His stats

Age:21
Height:1.78m
Weight:76kg
Bf%:11%

His final goal is a callum Von mogger type look eventually.

Since its his first cycle I was thinking to keep it simple and start his future juicing with a good base.

Week 1-8
Test npp 300mg pw

Week 1-4
Tbol 40mg pw

Bridge with proviron

Pct 2

I want to use the test npp because it's fast acting and only needs to be injected twice a week,also a short bridge period until pct starts.
Also he made it quite clear to me that he doesn't want his family and friends to know,so this cycle should give him lean gains and good strength without making him explode into a T. rex

Any input or better compounds that can be used without breaking the bank are highly appreciated

No absolutely not you cannot give him Nandrolone for his first cycle! Testosterone only and you can sweeten the deal with some orals. One needs to be responsible when you advise others. Thank goodness you came to the forum before advising.

Do you mean test AND npp, or test prop?

Sorry for the misunderstanding I'm talking about test phenyl propionate not deca npp,understand you shouldn't use deca for a first cycle or just on its own..I was thinking bout the test that has the same release time as npp

Also I don't think test prop would be viable for him because of the constant injecting and he might miss a day so that's why the phenyl propionate just twice a week

Thought so

At 76kg he can still add a lot of size naturally - either he's not really trained/eaten properly, or he's got a smallish frame.

Pinning prop as a first cycle can be challenging. Ideally it should be pinned more frequently than twice a week, and the pip can be rough in virgin muscle. That's why most beginner cycles suggest test e/cyp. The tbol is probably also not necessary as a frontload if he insists sticking with prop. Rather throw it in from week 6 until 2 days before PCT instead of the proviron, which he can use from week 4-8. Or don't buy the orals at all.

I don't think he should worry about getting too big too quick. Unless he's going to add creatine :woohoo:

Edit: Aaah.. TPP you say. Don't see it too often.

Eidolon wrote:
Edit: Aaah.. TPP you say. Don't see it too often.

Ive also only seen Ciccone's TPP, same price as their TProp...

But doesnt it have the same HL as Tprop? 4-5days?

Lol yeah,he's been training for a year and a half now but hasn't noticed any really noticeable gains..his training and his food is okay but he is just a small built guy and he often tells me "genetics aren't my best thing"

I was thinking test e but chose the tpp since it will start up quickly with a half life of 5.5 days can be injected every 2-4 days without much pip and he won't have that long bridge,when I first started juicing people noticed within 3 weeks and after the end of the cycle everyone knew(but I did put on 9kg and tear my shirts)so I'm just keeping things minimal for him.

I would actually like him to use anavar but it's just too expensive for him right now, sounds good with the tbol from week 6 and the proviron from week 4-8

Thanks

PraetorXII wrote:

Eidolon wrote:
Edit: Aaah.. TPP you say. Don't see it too often.

Ive also only seen Ciccone's TPP, same price as their TProp...

But doesnt it have the same HL as Tprop? 4-5days?

According to ciccone the tpp releases day for day,minute for minute to npp

5.5days half life so I assume pct would start 16 days after last injection?

Jono77 wrote:

PraetorXII wrote:

Eidolon wrote:
Edit: Aaah.. TPP you say. Don't see it too often.

Ive also only seen Ciccone's TPP, same price as their TProp...

But doesnt it have the same HL as Tprop? 4-5days?

5.5days half life so I assume pct would start 16 days after last injection?

Correct if they say HL is correct buddy 16days

You don't pin at the end of a hormone's half-life,, bud. I pin test e twice a week, for instance, and many use NPP EOD. You can try to stretch out the intervals, but it often causes more sides due to the increase in hormonal fluctuations, which is not what you want for a first cycle.

Just go with the beginner's test cycle from the sample articles.

Like Eidolon said is is better to inject more frequently. There was an interesting clinical study comparing different doses of testosterone that showed that injection frequency plays a far bigger role than dose when it comes to some side effects.

About 60% of men who used 300mg/week got acne because they did one shot a week, while the men who did 600mg/week did 2 shots a week and only 15% of them got acne.

Okay so either we should look at a longer ester or increasing injections per week. I'll speak to him and see if he's okay with the EOD injections otherwise we can use test E twice a week.

According to one of the tables on this site on esters used in testosterone, phenyl propionate only needs to be injected every 2-4 days with an active half life of 5.5 days..would it be stable enough to inject twice a week?(although EOD injecting would be best)

Muscleaddict wrote: Like Eidolon said is is better to inject more frequently. There was an interesting clinical study comparing different doses of testosterone that showed that injection frequency plays a far bigger role than dose when it comes to some side effects.

About 60% of men who used 300mg/week got acne because they did one shot a week, while the men who did 600mg/week did 2 shots a week and only 15% of them got acne.

I would understand this if it was 600mg one shot per week compared to 2 x 300mg per week.
Is there a parabolic relationship between test concentration and acne?

Jono Ciccone TPP straight up fkn hurts, injected it in my glute I was feeling pain for 3days, changed to delt same shit...... I will not be trying it again. Your mate better of trying PGW test Prop boet.

Ravage wrote: Jono Ciccone TPP straight up fkn hurts, injected it in my glute I was feeling pain for 3days, changed to delt same shit...... I will not be trying it again. Your mate better of trying PGW test Prop boet.

Test prop's post injection pain has got nothing to do with the brand.

Jono77 wrote: Okay so either we should look at a longer ester or increasing injections per week. I'll speak to him and see if he's okay with the EOD injections otherwise we can use test E twice a week.

According to one of the tables on this site on esters used in testosterone, phenyl propionate only needs to be injected every 2-4 days with an active half life of 5.5 days..would it be stable enough to inject twice a week?(although EOD injecting would be best)

So did you tell him to go with Test E? I would use the TPP same as TProp.

Yeah I spoke to him today,we going with a test e cycle at 300mg pw for 8 weeks and tbol kickstart at 40mg for 25days..I'll be injecting him and make sure everything goes to plan with his cycle.hes gonna buy the needles and everything this week and we will probably start next week Monday,I'll try and post his progress on here as we go.

I'll be trying PGW TProp soon will let you know hows the pip, is he also gonna use PGW T E?

Prop is painless. Some deep muscle pain the day or so after shot. Use deep heat arnica oil.

Am I the only one thinking 300mg PW is a bit low ? I mean if you gonna do it might as well get the most of it.

Indeed 300/400 PW sounds low but you can still draw 2ml EOD instead of 1ml, and I'm sure there's a reason why its 100mg/ml?

PraetorXII wrote: Indeed 300/400 PW sounds low but you can still draw 2ml EOD instead of 1ml, and I'm sure there's a reason why its 100mg/ml?

:pinch:

Oupa wrote:

PraetorXII wrote: Indeed 300/400 PW sounds low but you can still draw 2ml EOD instead of 1ml, and I'm sure there's a reason why its 100mg/ml?

:pinch:

I love u 2

Is your mate going to sort out his diet and training? If he hasn't seen any gains naturally, it doesn't really matter what cycle he picks. Getting on after a year and a bit of half-arsed training is also a bit too soon, but that's just my opinion, I guess.

Saam met Eidolon. Nutrition is 80% van die game...

PraetorXII wrote: I'll be trying PGW TProp soon will let you know hows the pip, is he also gonna use PGW T E?

We will be using ciccone in this cycle,unless I can get a physical dealer that supplies PGW in my area..I will only order the things I can't get from ciccone but can from PGW online