Psy's 2nd Cycle

Then it must be something else. Just be careful by the way and rather try and avoid the exercises causing lower back pain. Not worth messing around with one's back.

I can't recall where or who but it has been mentioned on the site that milkthistle interferes with the anabolics in the liver and on the androgen receptor rendering your cycle less effective the mods can tell you more even go scroll through all the sample cycles you won't find milk thistle recommend as an on cycle support.


For years steroid users have been taking Milk Thistle (Silybum marianum, which contains the polyphenolic flavonoid silymarin and the active component silibinin) to protect their livers from potentially hepatoxic oral steroids. In the Anabolics series of books, William Llewellyn talks about using this stuff as a liver protector. Well, he’s wrong…yeah, it’ll protect your liver, but it’s also going to reduce the effectiveness of the entire cycle, by reducing androgen receptor transactivation and also by inhibiting the IGF-I signaling pathway.

Less androgen receptor activity + less IGF-1 = less muscle and strength.

The problem with Milk Thistle is that it inhibits certain functions within your androgen receptors, thereby making the steroids (androgens) you’re taking less effective – this is why it has been studied as a possible chemoprotective agent for androgen dependent cancers. The active component in Milk Thistle effectively reduces nuclear androgen receptor levels and down-regulates several androgen-regulated genes primarily by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR, and can also inhibit nuclear localization of the androgen receptor. Admittedly this study only looks at certain site-specific androgen receptor cells, in certain situations, but I see no reason in the available data to think these effects wouldn’t be the case elsewhere.

There is additional information available that strongly suggests that Milk Thistle will also have an inhibitory effect on the insulin-like growth factor I receptor-mediated signaling pathway. All in all, there seems to be a reasonable expectation that this stuff is anti-anabolic. Lowering IGF-1 is important for treating cancer, which makes Milk Thistle a promising compound in that field.

Nobody is right all of the time, and I’ve probably thought this stuff was a good idea in the past, and even recommended it (like Llewellyn and a lot of other people), but the truth is that Milk Thistle looks like an extremely bad idea for use on a cycle – at least if you want your cycle to be as effective as possible. I know that these studies aren’t perfect (i.e. they don’t examine healthy, weight training individuals, using steroids, etc…), but I’m still reasonably confidant that Milk Thistle will inhibit your gains from a cycle, and that’s the bottom line. I don’t know how much. Maybe a little. Maybe a lot. Either way there’s better choices out there, and no, I don’t sell a liver-support product, and no I don’t have a vested interest in bashing Milk Thistle…nor am I saying not to protect your liver (because if your liver gets destroyed, you’ll die). I’m just saying that this shouldn’t be your first choice (or any choice, really).

That particular piece of info came from steroid.com not my work. But I am of the same opinion.

Interesting, I been taking 2-3 milk thistle pills/day.

Will take 0 for a week and report back.

Dru
Two weeks would be more realistic to notice a notable difference

It is part of my cycle support, so bit tricky for me to cut out just the milk thistle.
I also took during my last cycle as I am using the same cycle support.

@Oupa, what are your thoughts? Perhaps you have had some experience with such things?

Well yesterday was my last day on SD, I bumped up to 20mg for the last 4 days.
I am glad I am done with the SD as the colour of my urine was starting to get quite dark which can't be a good thing.

Strength is going up, as is my weight. I am around 64KG at the moment which is awesome as my previous cycle I peaked at around 65KG so I am already there basically and not even 1 month in... Although I think I have a slightly higher BF % this time around.
I have been struggling to eat on some day, well, eat as much as I think I should be eating at least.
I want to start running some Melanotan but will wait until month end before I start with that.

Otherwise everything else is going well.

Howzit psy, how's the cycle going?

zaino wrote: Howzit psy, how's the cycle going?

A late response, I know. Although I haven't been around the forum that much.

I am almost done with it, I have enjoyed it although without a doubt my 1st cycle had given me far better results but that is to be expected and everyone does state so.

I feel as if I have learnt a lot about my body this time around though, like which exercises work better for me and I have made some progress with my back and arms. Biceps is by far the hardest, most painful and worst muscle to train for me. It hurts unlike anything else and just refuses to grow.

Quads the easiest without a doubt.