500MG Test E only cycle - I FEEL LIKE TOTAL CRAP!

Hi chaps,

I'm new here. While I understand there are many variables to what could be going on with me I guess I'm here someone experienced to tell me it's normal.

I have about 7 years lifting experience and finally decided to go on my first ever Test E 500MG cycle a few months back. I'm currently at the end of week 6 and I feel like total dog dung. Like on a scale of 1 to 10 I'd throw the scale against a f'ing wall. I woke up one morning with severe body muscle aches and felt like a truck hit me. On my initial research I came across what some refer to as test flue. It's all the symptoms of man flue, except I don't have a cough or runny nose, I just feel sluggish and sore. So sore in fact that I have to drag my ass around and have not been able to have a decent workout since week 3.

Symptoms have been going on a week now and I have been trying to push through it. A good dose of pre-workout gets me in and out of the gym but shortly after I just descend back into this deep black whole of shiteness.

The aches and stiffness in my body is on a retarded level and certainly not what I was expecting. I cant see how anyone grows like this. I'd really appreciate some comments. Please try not ripp me a new one, I'm fairly demotivated by all of this as it is.

The lab I used was Black Series Labs. My first 4 weeks were awesome.... I picked up 8kg's so far now at 104 and my lifts jumped a quick 10% for reps. I was just getting excited as things were picking up steam and now this. Thanks for your time in advance.

Get blood tests done bro that is the only way we are going to know everything else would just be speculation. Could be high or low estrogen. Test E only kiks in around week 6 so yeah could be test flue. What is your age and body fat?

I'm 35 at 14%
Regarding bloods, does one simply walk into your GP's office and lay it on the table straight for him?

I've been doing 500MG Test a week along with 500 iu's of HCG and taking Arimidex at 0.5mg EOD.
Before this whole ordeal started I skipped a few days of the AI as I started to feel like the Test dose might be a bit light for my body weight, as I had a good foundation already, and that the AI dose might be a bit high for me.

I do however agree on the bloods, it's the only way you'll really know.
I've had no other sides what so ever, but to be honest I'd rather deal with all the other sides than having to feel like this for the remainder of the cycle. My google-fu tells me this is very common and could last up to two weeks, while others simply dismiss test flu as a myth.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I'd appreciate advice on the blood work and how one approaches it. I couldn't care less about shooting straight at the GP's office, but don't want to be met with.... You know that shite's illegal and I cant help you here.

Depends on you and what relationship you have with the Dok. Or if yiu can pay cash walk into Lancet and ask them what you want tested.

I am fontunate have an openminded Doc and my sister works in the lab at Lancet

I personally just go to a Lancet, fill out the form, tick the tests I want and pay.
Go back the next day and collect results.

I have never had "test flu" and been using test for quite a while now. Gone through many bottles of the stuff.
I am honestly not even 100% sure what test flu is, I have heard it can be due to uncleanliness when the labs are making the stuff, so in essence a contamination of sorts, although I am sure there are meant to be preservatives in there to help reduce the chance of contaminations anyways.
Or your body reacting to the substance in a different way, thinking it is a virus of sorts.

As for what tests to get done, the basics would be at least the following:
Testosterone & E2 (Through Lancet)
Blood Pressure (Where ever you can)

Never heard of that lab either.

This has been helpful. Thanks for the detailed response. Black Series Labs looks like a new lab that recently popped up. While I did my diligence on the actual substances, I have to admit I let slip on the actual labs and which ones to use.

There's a Lancet very close to me and will pay them a visit tomorrow.
Admittedly I feel a lot better than I did yesterday but I think bloods are simply a must for piece of mind. Not that I have any idea what the results would mean, but I'll drop them here for you guys who are more experienced to chime in.

And?

I'm heading to Lancet in the next 30 mins.
I hate to pop on to the forum every time sounding like a whining bitch but I went out of the frying pan into the fire.

The test flu, what I am happy to go with as self diagnosis subsided. However I have debilitating pains in muscles and joints right now. Specifically my arms. Stiff fingers, sore wrists, sore inner elbows, enough so that it is once again hindering any kind of progress. Everything went great up until week 4 ish. Been all down hill from there.

I have done so much reading and I'm now pointing to my 0.5mg Arimidex dose EOD.
Various studies on that shit seems to bring on the exact problems I am having with AI's.
Opinions seem to vary on when on when to use an AI but to be on the safe side I thought I'd use them from the start. Anyway, I'm still fairly frustrated as my first cycle so far has been all about side effects and hardly about any growing. Mind, I've clearly made some gains, but not much progress since the first few weeks when I started really feeling the buildup. With my arms and pains in the current stated I'm pretty much fucked.

Let me go get this blood work done. I'll drop the results here when I get them tomorrow.
I decided to drop the Adex right now completely to see if these aches and pains go. They are very uncommon for me and not a result of how I train. I feel like I have a 90 year olds hands. Can barely hold 20KG bells.

EDIT: I also see in one of my earlier posts I actually mentioned this: "Before this whole ordeal started I skipped a few days of the AI as I started to feel like the Test dose might be a bit light for my body weight, as I had a good foundation already, and that the AI dose might be a bit high for me."

I definitely notice a decrease in my sex drive after an AI dose. I'm starting to hate Adex.

Hey bud,

Regarding the sore muscles and tendons and all that you are experiencing. I am running test E @750mg with 400mg Masteron E with dboll @40mg ed before gym and used to run 1mg Arimidex (until 2 weeks ago I switched over to Letro tabs). I had the same issue but upping my water intake to 5-6l per day and added Artho Guard at 3 tabs per day which sorted that out.

I would not cut out an AI just yet. Wait for blood then take it from there. Hopefully you can have the results by tomorrow and you can share here for guidance.

With regards to the gains, in my amateur opinion you cannot keep gaining every week. The gains you have made so far is good gains and now would be a good time to focus on bringing down your BF%. That is what I am doing now. And every drop in BF% makes me feel better and more energetic. That is just me.

Decrease in sex drive could either be too high or too low estrogen.

If you need an AI depending on your results, try to get aromasin. My only regret is that I did not go the aromasin route although Letro tabs seems to do the thing for me.

JackSilver wrote: I'm heading to Lancet in the next 30 mins.
I hate to pop on to the forum every time sounding like a whining bitch but I went out of the frying pan into the fire.

The test flu, what I am happy to go with as self diagnosis subsided. However I have debilitating pains in muscles and joints right now. Specifically my arms. Stiff fingers, sore wrists, sore inner elbows, enough so that it is once again hindering any kind of progress. Everything went great up until week 4 ish. Been all down hill from there.

I have done so much reading and I'm now pointing to my 0.5mg Arimidex dose EOD.
Various studies on that shit seems to bring on the exact problems I am having with AI's.
Opinions seem to vary on when on when to use an AI but to be on the safe side I thought I'd use them from the start. Anyway, I'm still fairly frustrated as my first cycle so far has been all about side effects and hardly about any growing. Mind, I've clearly made some gains, but not much progress since the first few weeks when I started really feeling the buildup. With my arms and pains in the current stated I'm pretty much fucked.

Let me go get this blood work done. I'll drop the results here when I get them tomorrow.
I decided to drop the Adex right now completely to see if these aches and pains go. They are very uncommon for me and not a result of how I train. I feel like I have a 90 year olds hands. Can barely hold 20KG bells.

EDIT: I also see in one of my earlier posts I actually mentioned this: "Before this whole ordeal started I skipped a few days of the AI as I started to feel like the Test dose might be a bit light for my body weight, as I had a good foundation already, and that the AI dose might be a bit high for me."

I definitely notice a decrease in my sex drive after an AI dose. I'm starting to hate Adex.

Hey man,

as crap as you feel right now hang in there. Not everyone has a first cycle like this, but a first cycle should generally be about finding out what your tolerances are.
Right now i'm leaning to your side regarding the AI. This is also why it's recommended to keep on hand especially with a first cycle.
Having test and the AI makes it a bit harder for you to determine which of the 2 makes you feel bad. Now imagine had your first cycle been an oral and another compound added... process of elimination would not have been fun. In your simple cycle you seemed to have caught the culprit already and bloods will most likely confirm this.

For now my advice is to hang in there. Before you know it you'll be back on track with the test hitting you 100% now and the rest of the cycle will feel like a dream.

Good luck bud

Thanks for the additional chime in fellows.
I popped into Lancet and requested blood work on Total Test, free Test and E2.
I'm going to guess I should have looked at a lot of other shit too, but this would have been the only stuff I would have understood. Maybe you guys can recommend other tests in the future.

What I'm hoping to get out of it is:

A.) Is the gear good and does test levels confirm this to be at what a 500MG dose a week should put it at roughly.

Although my physical self tells me it is, I would feel better seeing the evidence. Not knowing what to expect from a first cycle I'm guessing I expected more. Could the gear be underdosed... etc....

B.) Am I flat-lining my estrogen levels.
I'm 99% convinced my tendons clicking all over the place and the muscle and joint aches is coming from the Adex. Regardless of what the blood work shows I can not stay on this dose. I think 0.5MG EOD is just too much of a rapid drop in E levels. Although research has not confirmed why these aches happen there's enough evidence on the internet that confirms its quite common. Over 60% in fact in women who are given it experience these sides. If the tests show my E levels in an acceptable range I'm going to have to look towards either splitting the Adex dose up into 0.25mg's ED to avoid the spikes or cutting the dose in half. If that doesn't work I'll need to try Aromasin or Letro.

I did grab some joint supports and will up the water intake. I confess, I might be slipping there a bit especially now that it's getting hotter again. I wouldn't be surprised if the AI is drying me out so to speak and thats what causes the joints to suffer.

On a side note, what I experienced in my first post is unrelated to what I am experiencing now.
OP was test flu for sure. It was a different kind of body ache. I chalked that up to my body fighting off a foreign substance. What I am experiencing now is totally different.

So my results came back. I tried to make of it what I can but I'll let you guys weigh in here and maybe I can learn a thing or two. To be honest I'm feeling slightly overwhelmed.

S-17b-Oestradiol (E2) - 131 pmol/L


Here is where I am confused.
Test (Total) - Shows >52.1 nmol/L which converts to 1503 ng/dl

I'm going to assume this test can only read up 1500 and that I might have picked the wrong test?

Test (Free) - 1566 pmol/L converts to 451.8pg/mL

SHGB - 25.4 nmol/L

Please put up the referance ranges also

S-17b-Oestradiol (E2) - 131 pmol/L Ref: <192
Test (Total) - >52.1 nmol/L H8.0 - 30
Test Free 1566 pmol/L Ref: H180 - 739
SHGB 25nmol/L Ref : 18.3 - 54.1

Your E2 does seem Low.

MA can perhaps shed some light here?

I really have no idea what to make of it...
When I convert 131 pmol/L it converts to 35.68 pg/ml
From what I understand by my google fu, it might be a bit high? I have no idea what the reference ranges are or mean.

Seems I have the conversions all messed up.

No it looks right to me. From what I have researched the "ideal" E range is 22-25 pg/ml. The would be around 90pmol/l. So your reading is a little out of this but I don't think enough to make you feel terrible.

Your free test is way high, obviously due to the cycle. Your SHBG looks about right. From this you should be feeling good. Has anything changed since you last posted?

Thank you for chiming in Mfezdro.

I feel like I might have caused some confusion between my first post and the later posts. Let me clear up.

My first original post was regarding test flu. I felt annihilated after about 4-5 weeks into my cycle. That went away which I will attribute to introducing a foreign substance to my body it tried to fight off.

Around week 5/6 until now which is the end of week 7, emotionally and mentally I feel 100%.
Physically though I have pins and needles in my hands and numbness in my fingers. My hands feel tight as fuck with shooting pains in my arms and pains in my inner elbows. There's alot of joint clicking and popping going on in my tendons. Bones just feel brittle and its a sensation I can only describe in my hands as if rubber bands were put around your wrists and the hand being restricted of blood.

Due to this there's no strength in most of my movements, specifically presses.

A simple search on google has a lot of women especially reporting these symptoms when they are giving Arimidex due to breast cancer. I mean it's literally being written about everywhere. So if it's not a direct symptom of my E2 levels I'm left to think I need to hydrate more and look at more fats or it's a symptom of Arimidex that has nothing to do with E levels.

I'm running out of ideas here.

I am in agreement with your statement on my E2 levels. Acceptable ranges in adult men looks to be at 10-40 pg/ml with mine at 35.68 pg/ml. Higher E2 should assist with water retention and lubrication in the joints so it's not due to that.

I wish I had a solid read on my total test. No idea why that test only measured up to where it did, but my free test level at least has me confident that the gear is not bunk.

I was going to do a 12 week cycle, but might cut it to 10 weeks, allow me to get off Adex and see if these symptoms go away. If so I'll probably try a different AI.

I am however considering dropping the Adex for a week. Since I took it from day 1 of my cycle I'm not sure if I should have as I might not have needed it. Or else maybe just halving the dose?

The ideal E2 range is different when you are on gear because the T:E ratio is more important that the actual number.

So your E2 would be higher than ideal for someone with normal total T, but for your high T level your E2 is actually not high at all and could even be a bit higher. You wouldn't want it lower than that now.

But the blood tests won't necessarily give an accurate picture if you've been playing around with your AI dose in the days before the blood test. So it's quite possible your E2 was too not long before the test if that is the case.

Your Total T does not add up for 500mg/week test E. Dodgy brand?

Muscleaddict wrote: But the blood tests won't necessarily give an accurate picture if you've been playing around with your AI dose in the days before the blood test. So it's quite possible your E2 was too not long before the test if that is the case.

Your Total T does not add up for 500mg/week test E. Dodgy brand?

I did not mess with the AI dose yet...
I've been taking 0.5mg EOD. However today was suppose to be my next dose, but I'm going to halve it and go with 0.25mg EOD.

As for the Total T, it seems the test Lancet does can only read up to >52.1 nmol/L which is about 1500 ng/dl according to the lady on the phone. In the states it's the ECLIA test for TT <1500 and then theres a LC/MS for TT > 1500. Lady over the phone said Lancet does not offer the test for TT over >1500

So yes, I still have no idea what my total TT is or where to test it.

I'm getting rusty. The regular tests by all of these pathcare/lancet type pathology labs only test TT to 1500ng/dl. There is a very expensive LCMS assay test for testing very high levels.

I reckon you'll much better on the lower AI dose.

Your symptoms sound like low E but the given reading shouldn’t get you those symptoms. Like MA says though, figures are set, each persons reaction to the levels is different. I also agree with MA that you’ll feel better if you reduce the AI. Adex destroyed my E, it’s mighty powerful magic. Reduce the dose and give it a couple weeks.

I also think sometimes it’s pretty easy to overthink this stuff. Not that you should ignore what your body tells you but you can over analyze each symptom and assign it to something. I wouldn’t rush into cutting the cycle just yet if your results are going well. Having said that if you are convinced there’s a problem rather stop, do a proper PCT, recover and look again in a few months. Good luck.

Muscleaddict wrote: I'm getting rusty. The regular tests by all of these pathcare/lancet type pathology labs only test TT to 1500ng/dl. There is a very expensive LCMS assay test for testing very high levels.

I reckon you'll much better on the lower AI dose.

I agree

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond.

I'll continue with the cycle, lower the Ai dose and continue to workout around these issues, even if it means I'm not going to pack on weight onto the bars. I've managed a solid 10KG's in the first 7 weeks which I'm already happy with. While I know it's not all muscle I'd gauge about half of it at least is. I've definitely been getting a lot more compliments in public even though my lifts lately make me feel like a total bitch in the gym.

With 5 weeks left on cycle I hope I can squeeze a week or two out where I feel like I did in week 4, which was amazingly primal. I'll definitely hang about and come back to this thread to update you guys.

What I will take away from this is that AI's, especially Arimidex is not just some preventative thing you take. They're clearly very strong and can come with a great deal of side effects.