First Cycle (Oral Sample Cycle Modified)

Good day folks

So my moffie ass was convinced that for my first cycle, the oral-only route is the way to go. Promptly procured the Proviron/Primo + PCT drugs as suggested by the Sample Cycle section and commenced the day the goodies arrived. I'm now on day 7 and after innumerable hours on this forum, research on the interwebs, and hundreds of YouTube vids (MorePlates, MoreDates being my fav) I've come to realise the error of my ways. I've decided to man the fuck up and add Test E to my stack as well as to expand the original 10-week cycle to 12 weeks, followed by 5 weeks of PCT.

I've a suspicion that adding the Anavar is overkill and that I'm not running the Test E for long enough.

Stats:

37 years
80kg
1.84m
16% BF
Current resting HR 65
8+ hours of sleep per night
5 days per week in the gym
Skinny-fat(esque), ergo body recomp, looking to get shredded with a good increase in lean muscle mass

Please see the graph below:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQO9438Igd0XhvFLRGV2mlWvOkjTfY5wjnvlp0R406I-goGRrDBfeNQOd3LzlyUMGKb9Z7eW_cwGa8i/pubchart?oid=1122064541&format=image

Gear Per Day

Had some trouble inserting a pic, so inserted the link as well. Let me know if you have trouble viewing it.

Would love some feedback on this stack as well as the drugs and duration of the PCT (I'm unsure as to whether it is sufficient).

Thanks!

Gear Per Day:

Week 1

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 20mg

Week 2

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 20mg

Week 3

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 20mg
Test E 200mg

Week 4

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 40mg
Test E 200mg

Week 5

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 80mg
Test E 300mg

Week 6

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 80mg
Test E 300mg

Week 7

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 80mg
Test E 300mg

Week 8

Primobolan 80mg
Proviron 80mg
Test E 300mg

Week 9

Primobolan 100mg
Proviron 80mg
Anavar 60mg

Week 10

Primobolan 100mg
Proviron 80mg
Anavar 60mg

Week 11

Primobolan 100mg
Proviron 80mg
Anavar 80mg

Week 12

Primobolan 100mg
Proviron 80mg
Anavar 80mg

Week 13 (PCT)

Clomid 100mg

Week 14 (PCT)

Nolvadex 20mg

Week 15 (PCT)

Nolvadex 20mg

Week 16 (PCT)

Nolvadex 20mg

Week 17 (PCT)

Nolvadex 20mg

am I seeing this correctly but for your first cycle you want 860mg of anabolics a week going up to 1120mg a week just on orals excluding proviron?

i didn't even use that much gear for my last contest prep

max dosing I got to was 950mg a week at the end of my cycle (250mg cyp,400mg primo inj and 350mg of Anavar a week) and I have got some 16 years of using gear usage!

also going more than 40mg of proviron a day is absolutely overkilling it with 2 other DHT drugs such as Anavar and primo.

if I was you I would extend the cycle from here of 300mg test e and maximum 420mg primo a week (420/7 is 60mg a day) and even then 720mg is large for a first cycle when 300mg of test alone would do an amazing job.

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/10-diet...0-potential-prep-log

that is the thread where i lay everything out.

Thanks, Empire.

My bad, Test E will be only once a week. Sorry for the confusion.

I shall reply in full when I'm back home.

Thank you, once again.

its not the test e dosing i am worried about, it is the total dose for the week, as i say those oral doses are massive!

Sisyphus wrote: Stats:

37 years
80kg
1.84m
16% BF

1. With those stats, you don't need gear, plenty of natty gains still to be made.
2. You say you like watching mpmd, well then you'd know his first cycle recommendation, is a simple 300mg per week test only, so not sure why you've overcomplicated things.

Training hard for more than two years now, feeling it's time to break through the plateau.

That being said, I'm hearing Derek in my head scolding me for the amount of gear I'm taking (luckily I'm not even considering touching trenbolone sandwiches).

In my defence, the cycle I'm on (sans Test E) is taken exactly from the sample cycle section. I suppose ignorance will not spare me a spanking... How much should I reduce it by? Or should I just abandon the orals altogether?

Thanks

Sisyphus wrote: Training hard for more than two years now, feeling it's time to break through the plateau.

That being said, I'm hearing Derek in my head scolding me for the amount of gear I'm taking (luckily I'm not even considering touching trenbolone sandwiches).

In my defence, the cycle I'm on (sans Test E) is taken exactly from the sample cycle section. I suppose ignorance will not spare me a spanking... How much should I reduce it by? Or should I just abandon the orals altogether?

Thanks

I mean disregarding the argument of if you should cycle anything or not.

Get bloods done first to see where you hormones lie.
Testosterone
SHBG (subsequently Free Testosterone)
Estrogen

To start with.
If there is a problem, cycling will at most lend you some gains, and might destroy you coming off.

I think a safe beginner cycle would be:
Testosterone 400-600mg
Some mild DHT derivative like anavar appropriately dosed

But you aren't there yet so don't stress yet.

Empire wrote: am I seeing this correctly but for your first cycle you want 860mg of anabolics a week going up to 1120mg a week just on orals excluding proviron?

i didn't even use that much gear for my last contest prep

max dosing I got to was 950mg a week at the end of my cycle (250mg cyp,400mg primo inj and 350mg of Anavar a week) and I have got some 16 years of using gear usage!

also going more than 40mg of proviron a day is absolutely overkilling it with 2 other DHT drugs such as Anavar and primo.

if I was you I would extend the cycle from here of 300mg test e and maximum 420mg primo a week (420/7 is 60mg a day) and even then 720mg is large for a first cycle when 300mg of test alone would do an amazing job.

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/10-diet...0-potential-prep-log

that is the thread where i lay everything out.

I outlined dosing here.

Sisyphus wrote: Training hard for more than two years now, feeling it's time to break through the plateau.

That being said, I'm hearing Derek in my head scolding me for the amount of gear I'm taking (luckily I'm not even considering touching trenbolone sandwiches).

In my defence, the cycle I'm on (sans Test E) is taken exactly from the sample cycle section. I suppose ignorance will not spare me a spanking... How much should I reduce it by? Or should I just abandon the orals altogether?

Thanks

If you are plateaud naturally at your stats, there is something else wrong and gear wont fix that.
Re examine everything, diet, macros, training intensity, volume, progression, sleep, stress etc.
Fix all this first.
Make your next 5kg+ of lean muscle gain naturally and then reevaluate at that stage.
You might not event want to use gear then, or if you do at least you have 'earned' it more.

Sisyphus, much like your name sake, you're pushing the boulder up the hill only for it to roll down again.
Nothing wrong with that but you're not gain8ng anything this round.
Listen to Empire and simplify your cycle. Môre is not better. Especially being AAS naive.

the first thing here is this :

what is your daily caloric intake number 1. Protein, carbs and fats. do you measure meals out with a scale? if you arent measuring your meals exactly and knowing what you are putting in to your body calorie wise, its like building a house but you don't know how many bricks (protein) concrete (carbs) and roof tiles (fats) you need, have or the cost of it.

next is your training : how many days a week are you training? what is your training program looking like? how many months have you been training? this is the work force to build your house. if you have a shit plan or no plan its like having 1 brick layer. if you have too many sets and days and exercises its like have a guy doing the foundations when all you need is a plaster for the job, and if you arent training to maximum effort and allowing for recovery is like having 20 guys on site building your house in the rain... ineffective work force for the job at hand.

80% of the work comes in from diet, training, cardio and sleep and recovery. all of those need 100% commitment. 10% of the gains come from anabolics as if you have missed anything out from the above you don't have the right foundations for your house. 5% is supplementation as that is only a minimal part and then 5% from peptide hormones, and nutrient control when you are starting out.

many people think 80% of the results come from the anabolics. but anabolics cant cover up shitty training, diet, sleeping, recovering and cardio.

from the sounds of things, you need to drop all orals and just run test for 16 weeks and get all of those basics sorted out.

I should change my name to Dunning-Kruger...

Consider me schooled.

There is just such a heck of a lot of information to be gathered out there; half the battle being to sift through the convoluted bullshit. And the more one learns, the more one realises how much of a fucking noob you are and that you should just shut the fuck up and get your house in order first.

many people think 80% of the results come from the anabolics. but anabolics cant cover up shitty training, diet, sleeping, recovering and cardio

Noted, thanks. I'm afraid diet is hit and miss in terms of ticking all the particular boxes. BMR is around 1,800 kcal, consuming around 2,000kcal per day. 80 to 120g of protein per day, carbs 220g per day, fats might be a little high at around 80g. My biggest sin is overeating on my rest days. I cook healthy food (meals are around 140kcal/100g) but I realise it needs to be more goal-orientated.

Listen to Empire and simplify your cycle. More is not better. Especially being AAS naive.

I would be entirely obtuse if I didn't follow his advice. I've read the quote about AAS being like a lift button so many times but it's clearly taken some time to sink in.

You might not event want to use gear then, or if you do at least you have 'earned' it more.

Initially, this type of comment would piss me off but the more I learn the more I realise it's sage advice.

Back to the drawing board for me.

I appreciate all the advice. Will keep you posted.

You should be eating about 2500 calories to maintain what you are currently of which 200g should be your protein content. 80g fat and balance carbs.

If comments like this piss you off, then you have an ego problem and you are getting offended by the best free advice you are going to get, and sadly, 95% of the time people don't listen to free advice and aren't willing to learn from experienced guys. I've been on and off aas for 15 years, and been coaching for 12 of those years, trust me, I have seen it all, and worked with someone of the coolest guys in the world to learn from. So if that offends you, sadly it's a you thing.

I'm here to be the voice of reason to say high dose cycles cause more damage long term, and if you get the 80% right you can use 1/3 of what you wanted to.

So use it, don't use it. Up to you, but I know that the guys I work with who follow this, get results.

Thanks, Empire.

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not pissed off at all. The annoyance I was referring to was like a child getting annoyed with his dad for telling him to go to bed, not listening to him, and then the next day regretting it because he's super tired.

In essence what I'm saying is that I'm going to follow wholeheartedly the advice of people with way more experience than me.

My apologies if I came across as snotty.

Thank you once again for taking the time to respond and advise. Much appreciated!