First Cycle (Oral Sample Cycle Modified)

I hear you on your comment, but at the end of the day, you have got one of the best resources on your hands on this forum, some guys who advocate high doses, some who don't.

I used to advocate higher doses until I got better results from lower doses timed better with less side effects.

Update:

Cycle simplified! Pin virginity broken on Tuesday. Test E, first week 150mg, the next week will be 250mg, then I'll take it from there. Cue the rolling eyes: I'm using a slin pin, subq, pinning 3/4 times a week. Little bit of PIP but I'll just have to deal (made my bed).

Can being on two DHT-derivatives crush one's oestrogen? Seeing as no testosterone was being arimatised? I was starting to feel extremely low, unmotivated, despondent, and was wondering if this were a result of non-existant levels of oestrogen.

I was, however, starting to like the dryness/more shredded look and did gain some lean muscle (was only in orals for 2 weeks so didn't expect a lot).

Started taking TUDCA, NAC, ACC200,and liver support tablets (which contains milk thistle - the farts were real!). I'm wondering if that wasn't a little overkill...

Also started taking melatonin and my sleep duration and quality has improved markedly.

I've also increased my calorie intake, including substantially upping my protein intake (thanks Empire).

Thanks, once again, for all the advice.

bro just inject LONG ESTER TEST 2x a week, you do not need to do 3/4 times a week, that is just pointless. do the injections 84 hours apart, Monday morning Thursday night. you are seriously over-complicating things by doing so many small shots. the whole benefit of LONG ESTERS is the lack of injection frequency, makes life easier for most people, yet you are overcomplicating things at this stage.

I don't think it is a case of being on 2 DHT compounds, I suffer the same issue when I prep for the last 2 weeks when I drop any test, its a case of you are being on suppressive substances that are suppressing your testosterone levels. now being on the test you should feel a boost in mood.

so now what are you doing oralwise?

also i hope you have brought your calorie intake up to about 2500-2600 calories to help with growth, not just increasing protein amount.

I'm trying to mimic the natural rhythm of testosterone secretion; apparently more frequent smaller doses (as opposed to one or two supraphysiological doses) helps minimise side-effects, apparently to such an extent that one doesn't need aromatase-inhibitors. I actually don't mind the slin pins, it's just a schlepp that it takes so much time to fill up and inject.

But, alas, you're the one with the experience, so if this is hogwash, please let me know.

I've indeed increased my calorie intake, managed it with more frequent eating (I'm always carrying around food, feel like a fucking camel) :silly:

I've stopped the orals, cold turkey (I figured with their short half-life, that shouldn't be a problem). I was planning on taking them again after my 10-week test cycle, as a bridge to PCT. Feel kind of stupid for having spent the moolah on oral gear without thinking it through...

Do you reckon I should include it in my regime? Maybe take a small dose before training?

Just do Twice weekly injections. Stop over complicating it bud.

I would use the orals once you are 8 weeks in..20mg of primo daily for 3 weeks, then 40mg daily for 3 weeks. Then you can do on to your pct

Ok, so I'm 4 days into testen and I'm wondering whether I should be noticing the effects so rapidly?!? Or is it psychosomatic?

The first noticeable effect was a general lift in mood and my workouts yesterday and today were on fire ????!

Is it possibly because of the two weeks of "pre-loading" (if one could even call it that)?

Whatever the case, I'm feeling great and I'm looking forward to my next workout

Sisyphus wrote: Ok, so I'm 4 days into testen and I'm wondering whether I should be noticing the effects so rapidly?!? Or is it psychosomatic?

The first noticeable effect was a general lift in mood and my workouts yesterday and today were on fire ????!

Is it possibly because of the two weeks of "pre-loading" (if one could even call it that)?

Whatever the case, I'm feeling great and I'm looking forward to my next workout

Give us an update, test should've reached saturation levels by now

Good morning folks

Here's a thorough update on my progress and experience of being on Test E:

• I'm on my fourth week of Test E, Pinning ever second day, sub-q, slin pin
• I started at around 225mg per week, I'm now on around 250mg per week. The following week I'll be titrating up to 300mg.

My first pin day was on a Tuesday, so weeks that start on a Tuesday are long weeks, and weeks that start on a Wednesday are short weeks. Here is a summary of my weekly totals:

1. First week: 225mg LONG
2. Second week: 195mg SHORT
3. Third week: 258mg LONG
4. Fourth week: 252mg SHORT

What should be the dosage I ultimately titrate to?

Side effects:

1. The skin on my face is more oily with a few more zits here and there. Mostly remedied by stopping moisturiser. No noticeable acne anywhere else
2. Itchy scalp!! This sometimes drives me nuts, but it's not affecting my quality of life whatsoever
3. Some hair loss but nothing noticeable. Still have a thick head of hair. A few extra strands of hair falling off when I brush/shampoo but not to the extent that it causes alarm
4. Slight shrinking of my testes. Nothing concerning
5. No increase in libido (this one I'm bummed about!)
6. No increase in irritability or aggression

Positive effects include higher levels of energy, better sleep (which could also be due to making a concerted effort to get at least ( hours every night + melatonin), slightly more positive outlook on life.

Gains:

Visually, I've more definition but the numbers given by my scale disappoint - I've not seen marked changes in the readings of weight, muscle mass, body fat percentage. Where I have seen changes is in the circumference measurements:

1. Neck - increase of 1cm
2. Shoulders - increase of 2cm
3. Chest - increase of 9cm
4. Waist - decrease of 3.5cm
5. Abdomen - decrease of 0.5cm
6. Hip - decrease of 2cm
7. Biceps - increase of 1cm
8. Thighs - increase of 2cm
9. Calves - increase of 1cm

Conclusion

I'm a little disappointed by the results on paper but my improvement in physique appearance is satisfactory, albeit slow. Given these results and seeing how the time on this cycle is slowly running out has really made me realise how pivotal diet is. I'm also going to have to seriously increase my training intensity and frequency. The tempo of improvement during this cycle has increased more so than at any time since I started taking exercising and lifting more seriously, which was in Feb 2020. However, I'm finding it hard to get perspective on my improvements due to being a rookie lifter and a gear newbie.

I would be eternally grateful for any feedback.

I'm going to follow Empire's recommendation and start stacking the Test E with Primo at week 8. I was also planning on only running a 10-week test cycle. Is this sufficient or should I be pushing it up to 12 weeks?

Thanks again!

titrate up to a max dose of 3mg of testosterone per kg, after that you are going to get side effects.

get niz shampoo from your pharmacy it is a s2. use it as a face wash and on your head, leave it on for at least 5 minutes, it is known to help with acne on the face and scalp.

at 4 weeks you are now at peak concentration and things will start happening, as long as you are training intensely, getting in sufficient sleep, enough calories, etc you will start to grow at this point. remember if training frequently and with massive intensity, volume needs to be lower. doing 2 -3 sets to failure over 2 exercises will give you enough time to recover if you are hitting the next session in the next 2-3 days. if you check out my contest prep thread you will see I only did 1 exercise per muscle group, baring back which is 2, 2x a week and the growth was there on low anabolics and a good diet.

think about how babies grow, they eat, sleep, stimulate muscles and grow. do the same thing. training a muscle more than 2x a week isn't going to be productive, and that is always why I fall back to the upper/lower split with massive intensity and plenty of recovery.

you can push the test to 12 weeks, just push out your primo dosing by 2 weeks if you do that.

Gulde raad, baie dankie Empire!

Ek't sommer summier vir my Selsun gekry wat glo dieselfde doen as Niz sjampoe.

Sal binnekort weer laat weet hoe dit gaan

Nope Selsun isn't the same as niz. You gotta use the right stuff.

It has to be Nizoral or Kez yep. It has an anti-androgen which minimises how much DHT (what makes men go bald) binds to the receptors in your hair follicles. Kez is the cheaper option.

Hey MA.

I didn't really find kez works as well as niz shampoo, have you experienced differently?

Empire wrote: Hey MA.

I didn't really find kez works as well as niz shampoo, have you experienced differently?

Both products have the same dose of ketonoazole. I first used Niz/Nizoral but Kez was cheaper and worked well for me as long as I used it correctly. Instant relief from the itching but I'm not sure how much it helped for hair loss. Hard to say as I was using minoxidil as well for a long time.

Leaving it on my scalp for 5 minutes eventually became too much of a mission on a long cycle along with minoxidil.

I get you on the same dosing of ketonoazole in both products, however even with my thyroid meds I take, different brands at the same dosing produce a better result. Euthyrox for example at 150mcg daily left my levels tanked, my doctor looked at my numbers switched me to eltroxin and I shit you not in 5 days I felt like a new human and levels where great.

I guess it would be down to personal preference really eg generics vs originals,I just found niz far superior.