Lt3 & Clenbuterol

Question for those in the know,

My friend weighs about 120kg. He is tall and \"big boned\" and his LBW is about 90kg. He thus carries about 30kg of fat.

He has been training for the past year, but has not been following a proper diet. He would like to start a calorie restricted diet and the Lean Mass Cycle for beginners that Mxt has written.

Because he has a lot of bodyfat, I recommended that he should take clenbuterol and combine it with Lt3.

Can anybody please inform us of the right amounts of both these substances that should be taken daily.

My opinion is that he should start the LT3 on about 20mcg / 24h for one week and then increase it to 40mcg / 24h the next week. Maximum dose of LT3 to be around 60mcg/24h.
And clenbuterol.. Starting with 40mcg per day and working it up to no more than 80mcg per day.

Any comments?

is it possible to do t3 and ECA together instead of clen?

i have heard rumors that ephadrine is a muscle sparing substance so would anabolic support still be needed? and if so can winstol be used say like 25mg a day? or must it be more?

Ephadrine is most certainly not muscle sparing!

I'll use Anavar instead of Winstrol, but you might need something more anabolic to stack with T3.

ok then i have read wrong hehe...see anavar is a fantastic option but kinda a little outta my price range...deca?

I would go for Prop with T3.

i dont like test to be honest,i am very prone to acne problems and i would rather not take test...anything else?

Guys, one thing to remember : T3 does not discriminate between fat and muscle - it quickly burns everything! So, when you decide to use T3, ALWAYS use it with something highly anabolic or as combination with HGH + insulin.
Or else it's going to bite you!!!

Your doses are ± OK, Netro. The T3 is somewhat individualized - you will have to experiment with it, but increase doses VERY SLOWLY, or else you can create a \"thyroid storm\" - and that you don't want.

Clen usually starts off as 30mcg twice daily for one week, then 40mcg twice daily the next week, then 50mcg the next, and finally 60mcg twice daily onwards. Use with Ketotifen continuosly. Be careful with your weighing off of the powder - you can easily overdose. See if you can borrow a laboratory scale some where and weigh off a week or two's doses at a time.

doctari is it possible to use ECA instead of using clenbutrol or is it not suggested?

i was thinking of doing t3 at 10ug going up to 60ug over 18days then doing 60ug for a further 15days and then working down to 10mg over 9-10days...so it would be a 42day cycle...then taking 2 eca's per day with that...

now for the anabolic support for this,could i possibly use winstrol or something of that nature?as i am not a big fan of tests as they do damage to my skin and i am not keen for that...

do you think that i will see a substantial drop in body fat with those dosages and use of eca?

Djeasye,

Your T3 cycle is ± the norm people use for pre-contest preps. I have seen cycles going much higher, up to 100ug T3 per day - but that is for Pro's that usually weigh in the 120+ class. As I said before, T3 dose-response is HIGHLY individualized - so, give it a go and see what happens. Remember the PCT for T3 cycle is of utmost importance - your thyroid also needs to have Rehab post cycle. Tapering down your T3 is the correct way, using Guggulsterones and thyrosine supplementation along with this, will greatly assist the rehab process.

You need to be on \"stuff\" that is highly anabolic, but low androgenic, whilst on T3 for cutting. Remember that Tren is usually a good choice, but in your case will not do, as its androgenic:anabolic ratio is 500:500 compared to Test. So, using Winstrol with a ratio of 30:320, will help a lot, as it is 10 times more anabolic than androgenic. A few things to remember about Winstrol : It is a DHT derivative, so in high enough doses(and here it is again a case of individual's sensitivity) can cause acne as well. Just don't overdue the dosages. It is also hard on the liver, especially at high doses for longer than 6-8 week cycles. Using Anavar is even a better choice. Its ratio is 24:630 - that says a lot!
Always assist your liver. Take some Milk Thistle extract and Essentiale as part of your AAS and that can decrease liver stress a hell of a lot.Essentiale has EPL in it which also assists cutting diets.

I wonder if you guys read the strings carefully enough. It seems that I keep on repeating the same answers to questions. Again, there is no reason for not taking ECA stack with T3. Just titrate your doses so that you have good thermogenic effect without being uncomfortable due to side effects.

On your question of how much you will drop. Who knows? It will all depends on how strict you are with your diet, if you are doing adequate amounts of aerobics, how hard you still continue lifting heavy enough weights AND importantly how much you rest so that you don not overtrain. It is up to you Bro!
Let us know how it goes - we all continue learning when we hear of the results guys get off their cyclres.

So, please keep on feeding us with your results, Guys!!!!!

what is the best t3 pct to take?i have seen fat burners and things that contain 20mg of gugglesterones per serving,is this adequite or is some other product needed?

doctari would 200mg deca a week and 25mg of stanazol daily be enough anabolic support for use with lt3?also what can be taken inconjunction with this to stop me from getting limp willy coz ephadrine and deca together would just be like a heavy downer on the sex life...could i take 25mg proviron daily with this?

oh and is there anything that can be taken to stop acne being caused....

You can use Accutane to stop the acne.

ooooooh...ok..shot

The Deca + Winstrol dose should be adequate enough. Just don't overdo the T3 dosage. Dosages vary from individual to the next, but the "norm" is some where between 20-60ugr per day. If you go too high, you will lose lean mass despite your anabolic cycle.

As for the acne. I would be very careful to use a retinoid, like Accutane, while I'm on AAS that suppress liver function. Deca is not known to suppress liver function that much, but Winstrol can be quite hard on the liver. There is not much you can do about the acne, except maybe supplement heavily on oral Zinc, Vit E and Vit C.
Also protect the liver if you have no other choice than to have to use Accutane. Take enough sylimarin(Milk Thistle) and phospholipids like found in Essentiale. Do a Liver function test as a base line BEFORE starting on Accutane, and repeat it every 4 weeks. Very important: stay away from booze and the sun(that incudes sunbed tanning!) while you are on Accutane. Accutane also, in many patients, has psycological side effects, esp. mood disorders. It can lead to Depression of varying degrees. If you are on this stuff and you stop the treatment around the same time you go off your AAS cycle, you might just end up clinically depressed.

As far as Willy is concerned, you can use Cialis or any similar, but it is a bit worrying that you have trouble in this - when last have you had a thyroid function test, free testosterone + SHBG levels done? Even had a look at your Liver Function Test(LFT)? Any Biochemical pathology at this level can have an influence on your libido.
Then again - what do you see as a "loss of libido/ Willy going south"?? I had a chap walk into my practice the other day, complaining about the same. After thorough questioning, I found that he has difficulty in getting it "up" for the third time - every night of the week!! Jeez!

About the question on the Thyroid PCT Rehab?
Guys, I'm working on an article for PCT. Just found a candidate that will share his blood results with us as part of a case study within the article. This will be Real World Data, but he only starts his PCT(as I have prescribed him) next week, and the follow up results will be only available in 6 weeks from now.
But I will "leak" you some info on Thyroid PCT:
- never stop your T3/T4 immediately, always titrate slowly until you are "off" it over a 2 week period.
- use thyrosine and guggulsterones during this period and continue for at least 4 weeks with it. Here a good product is Thyroid Repair, produced by Solal/Fine.
- use your BHCG and clomiphene - this greatly enhances recovery.
- there is a homeopathic injection made by the house of Heel; it's called Thyroidea and you use it 3 amps per week for 2 weeks and then 2 amps per week for the last 2 weeks.

ANY of the above methods will bounce the thyroid back within 2-4 weeks.

You guys are "pumping" me for info - I like it!
I want you to be a notch above the rest out there!!

when i mean problems with the willy,i have had cases where i am on deca and i can get it up no problem but then there has been the case where when it needs to be used it just doesnt like me...had an incident where when i needed to get it up it so no...ECA stack also gives a bit of shrink to the trouser snake or am i the only one who has that problem? when i had the issue of not getting it up at the time need i took proviron and there was no problems what so ever....

cool,where can i get the injection doctari?i am keen

is turanabol just as good as anavar to use in this cycle of anabolics?

Kelp and L Tyrosine for 2 weeks before ending the T3 cycle and 3-4 weeks after has worked well for me in the past

Any of the pharmacies ordering from AlpaPharm Wholesalers can order it for you from them. It is a schedule 1 and can be obtained over the counter.

ECA has always been known to suppress your erections a bit..

ok i am gonna post what i think is a good course,can you please advise me on this one,i'll list all the things i have and could someone adjust what i was thinking.

10ml x equipoise 200mg
100 x tertroxin 20ug tabs
100 x stanazol 10mg tabs
50 x anavar 20-30mg capsules (thanks to PGW )
100x eca.
1x thyroid support from solal.


i was thinking of this :

starting on 10ug of tertroxin work up to 60ug a day at about 10ug per 3 days for 50days including tapering of the tertroxin down back to ug's (phil's recommendations)

doing 1ml of equipoise a week for 10weeks but 2weeks(3rd week) into the course start the t3.
whilst doing t3 i was goin to do 2 tabs stanazol ED & 1x anavar capsule ED.
start the week..

at the end of the t3,anavar,eca and wintrol carry on with equipoise for 2 weeks,in a combination with the solal thyroid support.

and to end the course off i was thinking of taking 40mg of nolvadex ED for 30days...

please rate this and let me know if i need to change anything....

Ethically, you would surely understand, I cannot advise you what dosages you should take - I can only comment on what I know normally is being used out there. I can suggest add ons or what you rather should not take - but not dosages.

I think you have learnt a lot from the site's strings - I see you have put togethher a good cycle.

Don't always reserve the Nolvadex for last. If gynaecomastia starts sticking its head out, then it is too late to start - you should already have been on it!
Prevention is ALWAYS better than cure....

You don't need that high dosage of the Tamoxifen. During the course,in general 10mg per day should do - this is not a very heavy aromatising course, 10mg should do fine. Max usually needed in general is about 20mg.

so can you offer me advice on making it the best cycle hehe. ok cool so must i run 10mg a day for the entire length of the cycle and how many mg post cycle?

oh and for how many days must my PCT last?

doc is equipoise 200mg and 20mg of winstrol a day enough anabolic support?just checking on funding as i might not be able to add anavar....

Winstrol the average doses guys use, are in the region of 50-100mg every second day. I know of some bigger guys using more than that. Equi is a nice drug to use, good results are obtained at the higher dosage end.(again, I'm not gonna tell you how much I think you must use!). Years ago, I used the Boldebal-H. It was 50mg per ml and I had to use 5-6ml per week before I could see visible results. Needless to say, at the cost per bottle, I stopped using it.

Run the Kessar through out your cycle - start at 10mg per day and see how it goes. If you are a aromatising-sensitive individual, then you will probably need 20mg pd. Very rare that doses higher than that is needed. Again, prevent the gynae before it starts.

PCT is a subject that I will cover indepth shortly.

Just a quick frame work:

It all depends on how high and how strong your androgenic component was for your cycle, and for how long you used it. I will give you the upper limit of dosages. For the lower to intermediate androgenic cycle, you can just about halve the doses.

Pregnyl:
use day one dose of 5000IU's at once. Then repeat 2500IU's every 5'th day until total of 15 000IU's have been administered.

Clomiphene citrate(Clomid/Clomihexal):
they come in 50mg tabs, 10 per box. Week 1 to week 3 use 100mg(2tabs) per day for 21 days, then only one 50mg tab per day for the following and remainder 14 days.

Tamoxiphene(Kessar/Nolvadex):
Usually, during the first 10 or so days, 20mg per day is needed, as the Pregnyl boost leads to very high LH secretion and kick starts the endogenous Testosterone production, this leads to aromatisation of the endogenous testosterone and you need to suppress that or else you quickly develope gynae. After that continue to use 10mg per day for the full cycle length of 42 days. You need to continue this long to give your body enough time to clear up all the free estrogens you produced during your AAS cycle.

L-Thyrosine/Guggulsterones:
Rehab your Thyroid with this. I have discussed this in a previous string.

Silymarin/EPL:
You need to rehab the liver. Have discussed this also in a previous string.

Guys, this is realtime info I'm giving you here. This comes from a very large and intensive study done overseas in Rehabilitation and Treatment of Male Infertility. And, this is also the cycly I used after my competitions last year. My training partner has used the same cycle, as well as my "case study" I'm busy with currently.

I'm planning an article on this subject, in which I will explain the physiology of the above PCT. I'm just waiting for the blood results from my "case study".