3rd cycle - Oral Tbol and anavar

Stats: 23, 6"1, 76 kg, ~7% bf

Previous cycle history:

1st cycle: Dbol only 40 mg/day for 25 days, didnt know much about juicing got convinced by a friend at the the gym - very little research done, poor diet, no other supps used. gained 7 kgs, no pct regime at all. Kept 2.5 kgs 4 weeks after end of cycle.

Due to being very disatisfied with results I began doing some research into diet and training - realised that I was over training (in the gym for an hour 7 days a week). and altered my nutrition and training techniques and managed to gain 5 kgs in 5 months naturally. Also realised that I was way overdosing for a first dbol only cycle.

Training:

I use a training program I got off the internet, that is a 4 day a week schedule. 2 days ON 1 day OFF 2 days ON 2 days OFF, so basically train monday, tuesday, thursday and friday. I have attached the training program.

Diet:

I eat 6 times a day, and take my protein shake during the night (I wake up and down it).
Protein 250 grams, Carbs 400 grams, Fats 140 grams. Total calories 4000 - 4200. I eat alot, but I have an overactive thyroid so my metabolic rate is disgusting. Last year I gained a total of 12 kgs.

In an effort to get bigger quickly before going on a beach holiday I decided on a second cycle.

2nd cycle: Oral Turinabol only 30 mg/ day for 5 weeks. pct - 20 mg nolva/day for 3 weeks, and trib. ter. @ 2000 mg/ day for 3 weeks. gained 14 lbs (6.5 kgs) and kept 12 lbs (5.5 kgs) 6 weeks after pct. which is now.

I am currently contemplating taking a 3rd cycle:

Week 1- 5: 30 mg/ day TBOL
Week 1-5: 30 mg/ day Anavar

PCT:

40 mg/ day nolva for 5 days. then 20 mg/ day nolva for 20 days. (can get more if this isnt enough)
Trib. Ter. 2000 mg/ day for 25 days
Milk thistle: 600 mg/ day

Any critique?

Dude, why are you not taking testosterone and injecting it?

I don't think you need roids that much. Let's see what's in that diet of yours and then we take it from there. If you insist on doing a cycle I would rather do a beginner cycle such as DJ's simple bulking cycle.

@ 00pump, umm im kind of unsure of the reason. i am predisposed to male pattern balding - dbol did serious damage to my hairline! so thats why tbol was used, had no effect on shedding! and I've read a few places and a mate of mine verified to that anavar (although a DHT deriviative) is also good ont he hairline. From what ive read test and dbol are the MPB culprits and so that is why i haven't injected the big dog! but i would, have been researching test cyp only cycle - its cheap and apparently very effective. Im not very confident with needles though - like im not scared of them - just not sure if i could jab myself. but yeah, do you have any advice regarding the posted cycle?

@ milktuds, are you saying that I dont need to take those doses or that i shouldnt be taking roids in general? Any particular reasons? My diet consists of:
1. oats, youghurt and egg whites in milk (pasteurized egg whites, comes in a litre bottle)
2. peanut butter and LOW GI brown bread
3. baby potatoes, cream cheese and tuna
3. 200 grams beef/150 g chicken, with veggies (broccolli, peas, carrots, sweet potatoes, butternut)
4. tuna and LOW GI brown bread
5. 200 grams beef/150 g chicken with brown rice, and gravy of some sort
6. home made post workout shake haha sounds funny, but its tasty - 40 grams whey, 1 banana, a scoop of chocolate ice cream, 2 tbspoons peanut butter and museli, all blended

usually between 1 am and 3 am - wake up and take whey concentrate 40 grams in half litre milk.

Umm where do i find DJ's cycle?

My training partner is on 500mg Sust/ 200mg deca EOD and has seriojus MPB issues. 1/4 Fincar / day and has a mop of hair with no loss at all.

I would say too many carbs in your diet and your dosages of T-bol and Var are way to low. I would up the doses to at least 50mg/Day, ideally 70-100mg. Also your coarse is way to short, Anavar only really starts kicking in aroung week 6. Why don't you go for the test cyp, honestly once you've past the first jab you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.

DJ has reacently posted some cycles but you can also use the search function.

Yes have read alot bout proscar, propecia, fincar, hairifin (i think they all brand names of finasteride) but i havent been able to find this stuff? not asking for sources of anything, just pointing out that I have looked into this

how much carbs would be better? I was advised to eat plenty carbs due to having such a fast metabolism, i burn loads of energy. But what would be better? Is there adverse implications with eating too many carbs? Thanks for your help dude

I'm no diet expert, you'll have to consult DJ on that. He'll will be able to give a well structured diet correlating with your weight, height and goals.

Just from my experience, with those amounts of carbs I would put on alot of unnecessary fat especially from your bread and potatoes (and cream cheese and ice-cream for that matter). However it does depend on the speed of your metabolism and if it is fast then you probably will be fine. What are your goals by the way, do you just want mass or would you also like to lean up?

you will know when you put on fat so you be the judge of that as for the rest fin and pin

Hey bud.

Welcome to the board

Well as you can see, there are plenty guys on here willing & ready to help so stick around & absorb the knowledge!

Just a few things from my side:

1. Man up & pin. If you want to grow, oral only cycles are not the way to go. You need test as a base to your cycle/s.

2. Pinning is really not a big deal AT ALL! Heck - my wife pins me & enjoys it! There are just 2 days a week where i have to be REALLY careful not to piss her off... :laugh:

3. Too much carbs & not at the right time. DJ is the diet machine, but I'm pretty sure 1 of the things he will tell you is that the main times (if not the only) to take in your carbs is early morning (breakfast) and post workout.

4. You have done oral only cycles before and you've been sensible enough to administer a pct. Why did you? To avoid post cycle crash right?

Well, just like there are drugs for system restore after a cycle (pct), so there are also drugs to combat mpb, acne & other accompanying sides associated with aas usage.

STay on the forum, read lots, absorb info and then make the next cycle you do worth it!

Peace...

hahahahaha, i know the ice cream prob isnt a prolem, well ive been eating like that for the past 8 months or so - eating around those figures of 400 g carbs and 250 g protein. i was told to watch my fat with the shake in the middle of the night to - coz i take it with 500 ml of milk. but I am serious ectomorph - I dont gain fat.

Well i would say my goals would be to lean bulk. (Gain a few kgs but maintain definition)I liked Tbol as I gained size but didnt loose definition compared to dbol where definition was lost (tricep didnt show as hardcore etc).

Umm, surely if I managed to gain quite well on the Tbol at 30 mg before I should still gain at 30mg of tbol and anavar? not 70 - 100 mg? seems excessive to me?

Okay would it be better to perhaps take this course with test cyp? a small dose of maybe 250 mg in a ml every 5 days or so? making the dose about 350 mg/week? (if my reasoning behind the maths is correct?). and add some hcg throughout? I also think my hesitance to the whole injection thing may be that I dont feel that hardcore popping a few pills everyday... injecting just seems daunting, but if its better?

Thanks dude dont worry i plan to stay and learn!

1. Yeah, I understand, notice my reply with regard to doing this cycle with test as a base?

2. hahahaha thats hilarious! My girlf is studying to be a surgeon so maybe she'll agree but i might not have her around if she finds out im on the roids. hahaha.

3. Yeah i think i take carbs in all my meals... but im a hungry fella, dont think ive quite gotten over the teenage munchies

4. Yeah, and because the first course i took dbol without pct and didnt get solid wood for a week or 2.

Thanks man! Reli informative and sometimes entertaining post!

Look everyones body is different and if 30mg anavar and T-bol has worked for you in the past then go for it. There has been much discussion on this board in the past about Anavar dosage and the general consensus at the time was that a reltively high dose of 70 - 100mg was ideal. I've personally done an Anavar only coarse at 50mg/day and was very unimpressed with the results.

I reckon a T-bol front load and a test cyp base @ 350mg/wk will be a good cycle for you. Obviously with your PCT as is. If you really want no water weight then you can even obt for test prop instead of the cyp that will keep your muscles more dry and lean, however being a serious ectomorph test cyp may be a better bet.

needToJumpOnCourse wrote: @ 00pump, umm im kind of unsure of the reason. i am predisposed to male pattern balding - dbol did serious damage to my hairline! so thats why tbol was used, had no effect on shedding! and I've read a few places and a mate of mine verified to that anavar (although a DHT deriviative) is also good ont he hairline. From what ive read test and dbol are the MPB culprits and so that is why i haven't injected the big dog! but i would, have been researching test cyp only cycle - its cheap and apparently very effective. Im not very confident with needles though - like im not scared of them - just not sure if i could jab myself. but yeah, do you have any advice regarding the posted cycle?

@ milktuds, are you saying that I dont need to take those doses or that i shouldnt be taking roids in general? Any particular reasons? My diet consists of:
1. oats, youghurt and egg whites in milk (pasteurized egg whites, comes in a litre bottle)
2. peanut butter and LOW GI brown bread
3. baby potatoes, cream cheese and tuna
3. 200 grams beef/150 g chicken, with veggies (broccolli, peas, carrots, sweet potatoes, butternut)
4. tuna and LOW GI brown bread
5. 200 grams beef/150 g chicken with brown rice, and gravy of some sort
6. home made post workout shake haha sounds funny, but its tasty - 40 grams whey, 1 banana, a scoop of chocolate ice cream, 2 tbspoons peanut butter and museli, all blended

usually between 1 am and 3 am - wake up and take whey concentrate 40 grams in half litre milk.

Umm where do i find DJ's cycle?

I think with some diet changes you could achieve a lot more. But if you wanna use, start pinning.

Diet should go something like this (just adjust your calorie intake):

Breakfast: Oats, egg whites and some yolks
Meal 2: Whey, waxy maize and natty PB
Meal 3: Tuna and potato
Meal 4: Chicken Breast, veggies and some nuts
Meal 5: Steak, Veggies and olive oil
Meal 6: Whey Shake, cottage cheese and natty PB
Pre Workout: Oats, Honey
Post Workout: Whey & Dextrose (60% Carbs/40% Protein ratio)

@ stuart; well I haven't taken anavar before, but Tbol at 30 was pretty good. 40 or 50 would have been better but its a bit pricey to run, im very much leaning towards the test because the tbol and anavar are soooo expensive! okay so how long should I run the cyp?

Is 8 weeks long enough? And what kind of HCG protocol should I follow? 150 IU every 3 days, starting 10 days after first pin, till a week before pct? U say i should keep my pct the same? not 4 weeks at 40/40/20/20 or 40/20/20/20???

Umm, i think the cyp is a better option because of the less frequent jabs .

Do I have to kick start with Tbol?

@ milktuds; shot for the diet help dude, I will begin adjusting my diet accordingly!

Note: Pre workout and post workout are not necessarily your last meals of the day. Meal 6 should be before bed.

Cool I understand, shake before bed. Well I usually train around lunch time anyway, so meal 6 would be my last.

Milk is there any other advice you could give me? regarding what I asked stuart?

you should look at taking 500mg test a week for 10 weeks...you can front load with dbol or t-bol depending on budget....

Is the 350 mg/ week be to low for growth considering it will be my first cycle of test? yeah budget would lean me toward dbol but i prefer tbol. what about the adex? and HCG protocol?

You're right Anavar is very expensive, also known as "rich man's winstrol".

An 8 week coarse would be fine. Possibly push it to 10 weeks if you can.
The HCG at 150IU E3D (450/week) will be ideal but if you're struggling to budget then maybe keep the HCG just in your PCT. If you do this then run 500IU EOD starting second week in PCT for 3 weeks. PCT should also have clomid at 50mg/day for first week. Then in second week start Nolvadex at 20mg /day for 4 weeks and HCG (500IU) EOD for 3 weeks.

No the T-bol is not essential. It would just be a good way to get your blood-levels up quickly so that you don't have to wait for the long half-life of the Test Cyp which is around 6 - 7 days.

Also rather run the Milk Thistle from day 1. It's for liver support while you are on-cycle.

Yeah ananvar is way too expensive! but the tbol is too, I get them for pretty much the same price.

well i would prefer to take the HCG throughout the cycle. as pregnyl is very well priced. So thats not a huge concern.

I see, why do we take clomid for first week? From all the research I have done I have never seen a pct protocol like that. clomid then nolva? thought nolva was the better choice throughout pct. What effect does taking it for a week have in terms of bringing back test levels - compared to just taking nolva?

Here's a link to Doctari's PCT:

www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/post-cy...octaris-pct-protocol

Doctari (medical doctor) has explained why he uses different compounds at the different times. His PCT protocol will ensure that your gains are optimally kept and also hormone levels return to normal.

There is also another thread on how to structure a PCT in the PCT section.

Thanks for all the help guys, must i post my reviewed test based cycle here? or start a new thread for the cycle?

You can post it here - topic name still applies but it's up to you.