Frontloading test

00pump wrote: Need much more than 1 case study.

Which is why I said it is not certain but rather safe than sorry.

There are other case studies that concluded that an AI can be used to increase predicted adult height. But obviously they weren't dosed up heavily on test.

Do you have a link, i'd love to understand how that is possible?

Muscleaddict wrote: Manery, you've said before you've done your research and know what you're doing, but you're asking about gyno??? You tell other guys on the forum to get arimidex to prevent gyno but now you don't have an AI for your first cycle? Even though you've already been advised to and you know that high estrogen is the #1 thing to cause your growth plates to fuse early. Not too smart buddy.

If you're going to take risks like this at only 19 at least have an AI to keep estrogen down!

I haven't even started the cycle or bought all my gear so no I don't have a AI yet, but will definitely have one before I start. Iam just trying to understand gyno and frontloading, stop jumping to conclusions.

I will post links a bit later when I'm at my computer. Using my phone now. It is mainly estradiol that causes the fusion of growth plates when we stop growing. In men the high estradiol is from aromatising of high testosterone levels in late puberty.

Only week 2 now anaps aren't that bad just bursts of sudden. Disagreement with everyone strength gains are ohk thus far expected more maybe a bit early.

I am really pushing hard at diet and training. My gym partner quited so I'm a bit alone but just struggling on chest days 8kg in first 7 days now doesn't move up so far 2kgs could be water I'm on 4% bf 3% when I started.

Would recommend the naps over dbol and its also price wise more cheaper as 50 naps can last you 2cycles if you only do 50mg a day

Don't have a bad mind set maybe just the gym partner that quited. But training last night was awesome so feel a bit better but still not as in the first week
Keeping focused and will get there

Yep, Estrogen is the major cause this I know, but there is a lot of estrogen to deal with in a cycle. You would also probably need to preload the aromatase inhibitor to be safe.
Post up the study and lets see what were the doses of both testosterone and AI and take it from there.

rvdwalt, your mind set is wrong in that you are depressed because 'gains' stopped. What happens when you go off cycleand you don't have the excitement of knowing your on? Coupled by a loss in strength and some mass... This is why many guys don't take proper gaps between cycles, try the blast-cruise method, or just become fat and depressed.
And after two weeks you have not gained any muscle. Muscle tissue cannot be built that quickly. You have gained 'water weight', all 8kgs of it is water weight. This refers to the subcutaneous water retention as well as increased nutrient and water storage in muscle, etc... So your true gains (excluding strenth) haven't even started yet.

I will post the info in a new topic so we don't go too far off topic here.

This may be a stupid question but why would you not just frontload with Prop? Surely the point of frontloading is to kickstart your gains as soon as possible. If you frontload with Cyp, even though you are loading a high dose, will you feel the kick as soon as if you had used Prop for 4 weeks?

I'm not having a go, I'm interested because my next cycle is going to be long esters and I thought Prop would be the right frontload and bridge.

Cheers

Mfezdro wrote: This may be a stupid question but why would you not just frontload with Prop? Surely the point of frontloading is to kickstart your gains as soon as possible. If you frontload with Cyp, even though you are loading a high dose, will you feel the kick as soon as if you had used Prop for 4 weeks?

I'm not having a go, I'm interested because my next cycle is going to be long esters and I thought Prop would be the right frontload and bridge.

Cheers

Im with you here,

Would you guys conclude in saying a long ester frontload of you compound of choice would yield greater or comparable benefits to running a short ester frontload (test prop 100mg e2d) for say 4-5weeks ? I understand the logic in upping initial dosages to bring levels up and fast as possible, but would running a test prop front load not aid the users more?

I myself have always stuck to test prop instead of orals as short ester frontload(orals do have there place though) and have never been disappointed in how quickly the test prop gets to work. The test cyp dosages i have always followed was 500-750mg combined with equi at 700mg cycling over 15-20 weeks.

I would be reluctant to follow the mentioned test prop protocol and long estered cyp frontload of 1000-1500mg but perhaps for future cycle the long estered frontload of test cyp i could try, what are you opinions with regards to short ester + long estered compunds of choice OR long estered frontload then to normal dose with other compounds. Its a interesting discussion and id appreciate any responses.

Regards,
Aspoester.

It's long ester front load or kicking with a short ester or oral. There is no need for both, and both alone will get your levels up quicker than long ester cycles without either.

As to why prefer one over the other, that's down to preferences and finances really.
TProp means frequent injection protocol for four weeks, Orals means extra liver strain. Tprop also costs a lot more than Test Cyp.
For a first cycle why complicate it, and why go all out on expensive products. Your gains will be great. Just front load the same ester your pinning anyways for one or two weeks, then carry on as normal for the rest of the cycle. Cheaper, and simpler.

This is the reason many go with the Frontload over the kicker.

@ Inja: would you say doubling up on the test for the 1st 2 weeks would be better than taking tbol @ 60mg/day for 1st 5 weeks?

If a guy is running 900mg test, is it safe to frontload with 1800mg/6ml ??

you wont die gorilla :lol: know okes who shoot 1800mg every week.

Oneday I will do 900-1200mg test weekly, probably my 3rd or so cycle :lol:

Just the thought of 6ml at once is scary! Gonna do three pins!

Fuck that. I will never do that.

lol you okes are serious
i admire VonD though. he would do anything to become a champion. he will get there one day

still there is a fine line between pushing the boundaries and bulldozing over them

Ya VonD has definitely moved into my "top 5 people from the forum I want to meet" list.

CHAPEL wrote: Fuck that. I will never do that.

Why not?? :lol:

CHAPEL wrote: Ya VonD has definitely moved into my "top 5 people from the forum I want to meet" list.

honored bro.

gorilla wrote:

CHAPEL wrote: Fuck that. I will never do that.

Why not?? :lol:

Don't see the point in going to such high and unnatural doses.. Only get one body, not a chance am I throwing it away or taking the risks in this economy when any damage could be extremely costly. I'm talking about the doses vond was talking about btw.

VonD wrote:

CHAPEL wrote: Ya VonD has definitely moved into my "top 5 people from the forum I want to meet" list.

honored bro.

Don't be but really I am going to be on your side of the world next semester so maybe then.

That would be awesome bro.let me know.

Theres a big mofo roidhead in my gym he pins 10ml Cyp per week and he is so oiled up its gross too look at... :sick:

WP bodybuilder btw.

besides the stretch marks i got off this cycle? huge. Will try post a pic of them. From now on I will go for leaner less bloat orientated stuff, and frontloading with test has got to make that bloat kick in faster. Maybe. I think.

GOOD HEAVENS!! so he goes through a vial a week. that dude has cash to burn