First cycle in 4 years!!

Can anyone relate to the TRT ?

BullD9 wrote: Can anyone relate to the TRT ?

Testosterone Replacement Therapy?

SteveC wrote: To be honest looking at where you are storing bodyfat you have some serious estrogen based fat patterns. If i was you,and u have to stay on your cycle, I would suggest u drop that test dosage down to 200mg a week which is more a trt dosage, and stick with 1/2mg of arimadex daily, but best way to see estrogen levels is by getting bloods done. That will keep u anabolic to a degree so uncan maintain muscle mass, and then u need to diet like all hell, ffrom your diet/macro breakdown i say that u are starting too low on the calorie scale. I would change your diet to 300-350g of protein split between 7 meals 200g of carbs split between 4 meals. Pre work out, during work out,post work out and 1 meal podt work out. Fats at about 110 split between 6 meals,only meal u dont have fats in is post work out which is protein and carbs only.

Change your diet to that for 2 weeks. Then access fat loss. Then if it is low, add in 20mins hiit cardio 4x a week. If that's not working,drop carbs by 25%. Then add in fatburners etc. Change 1 variable at a time so that you know which one is working.

Put up your training and we can see how to change it.

What he said.

Would it be worth a try? Dont just wwant to jump into something

Bulld9, from my understanding this is how it works, when in a calorie defecit,you are starting to use excess body fat (stored energy) to fuel your bodys daily functions, when in the presence of low calories your bodys hormone levels start to drop as your body thinks it is going into stsrvation. So when you are dieting,leptin levels drop, thyroid levels drop and test levels drop. Rememeber the body is an adaptive organism, and its main goal is survival, so that's can be seen when woman drop bellow a certain body fst % thier periods stop. Reason for this is the bodys main purpose is survival, when periods stop that means reproduction shouldn't happen as how is the body supposed to survive when its in a calorie defecit and still needs to grow a human being.

So when leptin levels drop,thyroid and test levels drop. Now raising leptin levels is pretty easy, have 1 high carb/refeed meal where calories are 1000-2000 above maintaince and those calories need to come from carbs as carbs are way more effective at raising leptin than fats and protein and they taste so much better. Also carbs have a thermogenic response and also boost thyroid levels. Thats why when u have a heavy carb meal you start sweating etc. Test levels when dieting arent as easy to raise from a single meal and generally need weeks at maintaince level calories or surplus calories. So thats why you go on to a testosterone replacement dosage of 125-200mg test a week. Long ester is better. Only issue is there is aromatisation to estrogen. When estrogen levels are high fat storage is high. So u need to control estrogen correctly with the use of adex/aromasin and the best way to depecit dosage is through blood tests for estriodal. E2 levels should be between 40-80 on your bloods.

So doing that will keep you maintaining muscle and maybe even growing whilst cutting fat and maintaining low estrogen levels to make sure your body is in a decent anabolic/fatburning position.

Sounds like it is worth a try?

Okay next thing... What specifics should i be testing for when doing blood tests?

Pre cycle i do
T3/t4/tsh
Liver kidney
Full blood count
Testosterone
Cholesterol
E2

I then repeat 4 weeks into cycle bar testosterone, then again 4 weeks post that and then 6 weeks after cycle i check again

I am very health consious in regards to taking bloods,how to u know how the engine is running if you dont check the oil? Also means if all is well and no ringing alarm bells with blood tests means i can do this longer cos if there is an issue i can have it sorted asap.

Okay so maybe i will do those tests. Post the results. See what you guys think and the acceptable count is. And then we will take it from there?

Always a good idea. Alot of guys on this forum don't do on cycle bloods,but i swear by it so that you know what's going on whilst use anabolics etc. Remember prevention is better than cure and alot easier to handle.

Yeah i hear you. so lets say im going for Test enanthate 150 mg pw. Is it necessary for hcg on cycle and a pct? Probably shouldn't use other compounds such as anavar or tbol? And what should the duration of the cycle be ?

Hey SteveC, just to correct some of your statements:
Leptin does not respond as quickly as insulin to carbs. It can take up to 48hrs to raise leptin. That's why a cheat day is used when dieting, more effective if you spread carbs evenly.
Also the decreased testosterone hormone levels are more prevalent when experiencing low caloric intake *and* already at low body fat.

No beef mate, just correcting. Ciao.

100% furk.

Look i do skip load for 4-12 hours on weekends based on what my coach tells me. And in 5 hours i can get down at least 2kgs of jelly tots and couple orders of roccomamas burgers. But where bull is now he doesnt need a full day etc.

Yes and i just put the way a saw it with diet and hormones.i mean we can discuss this for hours at which point does this happen..but for a brief statement for this mans understanding did i hit the nail on the head?

SteveC wrote: 100% furk.

Look i do skip load for 4-12 hours on weekends based on what my coach tells me. And in 5 hours i can get down at least 2kgs of jelly tots and couple orders of roccomamas burgers. But where bull is now he doesnt need a full day etc.

Yes and i just put the way a saw it with diet and hormones.i mean we can discuss this for hours at which point does this happen..but for a brief statement for this mans understanding did i hit the nail on the head?

Cool man heard of skip loading but not clued up on it. What some competitors do is they eat small servings of pastries and judge by vascularity of forearms and calves when to stop. Earlier this year, I'd eat cheat meals late one night and the carbs from the dextrose in canderall sachets leaned me out. Next morning I can feel go sunked in my eyes felt, that feeling is epic.

But ja regarding hormones, when it's comes to starvation and "survival mode", the keyword is *prolonged*.

The whole use of pastries is a great idea if it wasnt so high in fat, rather use home made low fat muffins. The vascularity will come from the influx of carbs, but also judge this by water intake. When you are incredibly depleted u can eat carbs for 6 hours and wont get insanely vascular, add in 500mls of fluid and liquid carbs ever 30mins and watch what happens. U need fluid to fill the muscle combined with the carbs. Do some reading on it. I love working with skip,so yea its been fun so far.

You would have been sunken in due to being dehydrated too. Add in more fluids during your cheat/refeed meals, spill over with sub q water and then watch 3 days later when water naturally comes off and glycogen is still full in the muscle ☺ matt porter from mpa refers to this as fill and spill

Cheers for the info Steve. Yeah water, carbs and sodium are key to show prep. I'm not nearly that level so not really in the fill, but thanks for the lesson.

BullD9 wrote: Yeah i hear you. so lets say im going for Test enanthate 150 mg pw. Is it necessary for hcg on cycle and a pct? Probably shouldn't use other compounds such as anavar or tbol? And what should the duration of the cycle be ?

Okay can anybody please help with the above questions?

@ SteveC

Such Interesting stuff bru! Thanks for sharing!

I like your outlook on doing bloods regularly... but wow, a cycle can cost between 8 - 12K depending what you run. and thats without food and supps. :woohoo: So adding all that blood work, that the medical aid won't cover can be quite costly! I just did Test and LH and that was R561.

don't get me wrong..I still think it's the wise route to follow. just adds another 3-4k to the cycle cost!

Yea its rough,but i dont run monster cycles, 450mg equi amd 450mg test is what i am on. Weight is up 8kgs in 13 weeks and body fat is down 3%. Granted i am only 80kgs and body fat is around 9%.


U cant really put a price on health. Maybe just get blood panel and e2 levels done then. Those are essential.

SteveC wrote: Yea its rough,but i dont run monster cycles, 450mg equi amd 450mg test is what i am on. Weight is up 8kgs in 13 weeks and body fat is down 3%. Granted i am only 80kgs and body fat is around 9%.


U cant really put a price on health. Maybe just get blood panel and e2 levels done then. Those are essential.

Yeah i hear you bru! i do agree! i'm gonna do some bloods during my cycle that i'll be running next. just makes sense!

May i ask what your height is Steve?

Sorry to go off topic BullD9. last post about this.

Haha its cool.

171 buddy

Going to start a new thread for the TRT please go take a look