NNP, sust, anapolan

Howzit guys.
I just wanted to see what everyones opinions and advice would be on my proposed cycle. The reasons behind my cycle is that I've read a lot of good things about NNP versus deca. I'm a really hard gainer and looking to gain so good mass and size. My last coarse was dbols frontload and test cyp for 12weeks. Put on some good size(12kgs) and have kept about 8kgs. But now I wanna try and get to the next level with this coarse. I've only done two coarses but figured this coarse is intermediate:) Also I see spike is gonna use anaps in his coarse and apparently strenght gains and size are amazing.
My proposed coarse-
Week1-3: anapolan 100mg daily
Week1-12: NNP300mg\wk
Week1-12: sust650mg\wk
I will be taking letro from start. And pct will be pct level 3.
My stats- age 24.
Height- 5ft8
Weight-68
Done two coarses before. Thanks in advance, cheers

Height 5'8"
Weight 68kg

And this is after you've done 2 cycles? Your sust dose is off, think you mean 625mg/week, don't see why you'd need to run anaps when you're running a short estered compound like NNP? Bud forget steroids for a while, just concentrate on developing a good diet for yourself

Hey, off your stats you'll never become a monster body builder so personally I wouldn't suggest Naps as its quite hard on the system. And I kinda agree with Deadgoat that you should also try other avenues.


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NPP 450/week.
Anapolon is great but this is only your second cycle and for that the NPP/Test is good enough.
If you add Anapolon you have to weigh the risks and know how to handle/treat sides. Not everyone has it easy on those - quite the opposite and badly so.
You might need a bit more experience before you know how to tackle all that.

Deadgoat- I'm obviously not a big guy and I'm looking to get bigger and sick and tired of people saying how skinny I am. My first coarse was like 2yrs ago and didn't know what I was going. My second one I've kept 8kgs and get compliments in the gym all the time. Its not like I wanna be a bodybuilder I just wanna reach a personal goal and gear helps me achieve that and makes me feel ready and confident for anything! If I get to 80kgs I'll be so stoked! That been said I would prefer people comments on my proposed cycle and possible other cycles.
;ackrabit- thanks for the feedback. Yes I understand anaps are harsh but when I was on dbols I had min side effects, and was hoping to get good increase in strength to maximise first 3weeks of coarse. Or should I just stick to dbols for frontloading? Also would you suggest I use sust325 or test enan? Cheers

Guys I honestly don't see why anapolin for 25days would be more toxic than 50mg dbol for the same duration of time,its probably on the same level of toxicity as one another,but the sides are slightly harsher with anapolin,...

That being said deadgoat is right about getting the diet right first and then go on to your cycle...

Guys I honestly don't see why anapolin for 25days would be more toxic than 50mg dbol for the same duration of time,its probably on the same level of toxicity as one another,but the sides are slightly harsher with anapolin,...

That being said deadgoat is right about getting the diet right first and then go on to your cycle...

Also dead goat using npp over the deconate ester is common so that u don't have such a long period before pct.

So DJ besides my diet you think that coarse is decent? What you said about anapolan vs dbol is what I thought as well. I was gonna try get some Lasix and milk thistle and think I should be good:)

DJ wrote: Guys I honestly don't see why anapolin for 25days would be more toxic than 50mg dbol for the same duration of time,its probably on the same level of toxicity as one another,but the sides are slightly harsher with anapolin,...

That being said deadgoat is right about getting the diet right first and then go on to your cycle...

Also dead goat using npp over the deconate ester is common so that u don't have such a long period before pct.

The problem is not the npp, but using anaps with it. I mean you dont see people frontloading test prop now do you? If the ester is so short then there really shouldn't be a need to frontload with an oral, if he wants extra size/strength gains then he should just increase the npp dose like JR said

@ deadgoat - sust isnt off if he is using Axio sust which is 325mg/ml

I believe that cycle is pretty good as long as the naps is max 3 weeks. Mixing short esters and long esters is not a bad thing its just a mission. This does not count for contest prep so dont think im saying its ok for contest prep

Deadgoat even with using test prop there is still a time frame before u see the gains,doesn't mean people don't front loaf it, the cycle isn't a bad one at all,I don't see anything wrong with it in my mind..

Using npp,test prop and anapolin actually wouldn't be a bad cycle,quick in quick out cycle with massive gains...

Fair enough

DJ and snok- thanks a lot for the input guys! I also didn't see the problem with frontloading with some naps and yes the sust is 325mg\ml. It is a real banger of a coarse in the sense its in and out. Just wanna see what size I can put on and how things go. Also I'm only getting one bottle of anapolan which is 50 tabs- 2 a day. As dj said, massive gains which is what I'm looking for. Did my research and glad experienced guys like dj and snok back my cycle up:) cheers guys

DJ wrote: Guys I honestly don't see why anapolin for 25days would be more toxic than 50mg dbol for the same duration of time,its probably on the same level of toxicity as one another,but the sides are slightly harsher with anapolin,...

That being said deadgoat is right about getting the diet right first and then go on to your cycle...

Also dead goat using npp over the deconate ester is common so that u don't have such a long period before pct.

Thing is that its not ONLY hepatoxicity. There are other sides as well. For me they were great and i had no sides at all. Great strength, fat loss, mass increase. Held no extra water, no blood pressure issues, no unwell feeling, no joint aches like with vat and winny etc.

Try it if you arent scared. I waited a looooong time and actually had stock all that time.

Test - is there any reason you dont want to just do Prop? My most productive cycle was NPP/Test Prop and i just cant say anything bad about it.

Week 1-15
2ml Test Prop, 1 ml NPP EOD
Week 1-3 and 13-15
100mg Anapolon / day
Week 15-20
Test Prop
Week 21 PCT

Howzit jackrabbit.
Um, the reason I haven't exactly considered coarses of prop is that I feel its not gonna give me enough weight and size compared to deca or nnp, its a very simple test and I feel sust would work better?? Also I'm not to keen to go on a coarse longer than 15 weeks.. Your advice here would be great. Thanks man

Test is the base of any cycle. Prop is just a short ester which is lighter in weight. You get more Test from 100mg Test Prop than from 100mg Test Cyp/En or a mix like Sustenon.

I always liked to carry on with the Test Prop for a couple of weeks longer than the NPP to give the 19Nor(NPP) a chance to clear the body. The PCT just becomes so much easier and effective.

If you dont want to do another 5 weeks on top, then just do another 2.

PCT starts so much sooner on Prop.

i.am.min wrote: So DJ besides my diet you think that coarse is decent? What you said about anapolan vs dbol is what I thought as well. I was gonna try get some Lasix and milk thistle and think I should be good:)

Don't use lasix whilst on anaps your kidneys will take severe strain. Keep an ai like letro or arimidex for sides, obviousky you made up your mind I would switch sust for test prop like Jr said and max 3 weeks anaps. Diet better be 100% if you gonna fork out all the cash for ths and pct

K I just wanna see what your guys opinions are on this... What gains considering diet etc is good would I get and be best and most lasting in the long run based on the following cycles?

Option 1:
Wk 1-3: 100mg anapolan daily
Wk 1-12: 600mg test enanthate weekly

Option 2:
Wk 1-3: 100mg\daily anapolan
Wk 1-21: 200mg\week test prop(would 300mg be better)
Wk 1-15: 450mg\week Nandro-prop
This is based on jackrabits cycle.

Option 3:
Wk 1-3: 100mg\daily anapolan
Wk 1-15: 650mg\week sust
Wk 1-12: 525mg\week deca

And obviusly have letro etc for sides and so forth. Pct will be comprehnsive and level 3 based on docs pct guideline.
I'm pretty sure JR cycle option is gonna be the best option but keen to see guys ideas.
Just wanna see what guys opinions are on which would be best for maximum gains and longest lasting and quality of gains? I'm basically looking to pick up a sick amount of weight:) I honestly don't battle with fat at all.. Haha. Thanks guys muchos aprichiados.

Are u 100% certain on doing anapolon? I still think dbol is better but if u gonna do anapolon another idea u can look at is spikes cycle. Dunno if u seen it but i think thats a real good idea including anap like mid cycle for 2 or 3 weeks.

But with ur options there id do option 1 purely coz i like simple cycles and PCT and time off is alot shorter plus recovering from just a test cycle is better then say ur option 3.

Hit the diet hit it hard and see good results

Howzit min. First of all I understand your desire to bulk up a bit especially if you are on the smaller side and have reacted well to cycles in the past. Not every one wants to become a body builder and actually most steroid users just want to put on some mass for asthetic purposes.

I agree with Snok, keep things simple. You already are very lean at your size so I would rather opt for typical bulking steroids like naps & test enan. The test prop & NPP are not goig to be as benificial with your frame as these are more cutting steroids or contest prep steroids designed to put on lean mass and keep water low. Also cycle 2 is too long. Remember JR is not new to steroids and can handle longer courses.

Also why on earth do you want to use lasix?

I.AM.MIN buddy your best bet all posts and and ideas held in mind is gonna be as follows (along the DJ + JR chain of thought), the axio and PGW dosing differs on the NPP (Axio 100mg/ml - PGW 150mg/ml) so keep that in mind when you look below, caus dunno what you getting your paws on... This is based on PGW (injects) products below:

>ABombs (up to you, can stick at a dose or do like this, blood level arguments blah blah I like a comedown), 100mg week 1-2 + 50mg week 3-4. (Then even finish off remaining 8tabs at half a tab a day depending on the liver, I always get bloods for liv function before and after fronting with ABombs)

>TestProp, 1.5ml, Every second day, week 1-10.

>NPP, 0.5ml, Every second day, week 1-8.

>Winny, 40mg, Every day, week 9-11.

>PCT, you seem sorted! Get your start timing right for your body after a blitz tho!

Peace

Thanks for the quick replies guys! Seems there's quite a bit of debate on this... Doesn't seem like there's one clear cut coarse which is best?? I have seen spikes coarse ideas and I quite like them and think its also a decent idea. The only thing I'm a bit in two minds about is when guys are looking at bulking coarses they do coarses of sust and deca.. But you guys reckon(not everyone) that test only is best? I understand the sides and complications with difficult cycles etc but I just wanna do this right and see what's gonna be best. I'd like to see what pump, dj, admin, netro, vega, snok and spike have to say on the proposed cycles and peoples comments etc. I've done my research and seems like this is gonna be a tough decision.

Stuart- the reason I suggested lasix was because in spikes cycle he mentioned he take lasix to prevent sides from naps(I think) or I miss understood. All the replies and inputs are much appreciated! Cheers

Lasix is a duiretic and is usually used pre-contest to drop water. It can also be used to lower blood pressure and this is the reason Spike may use it. It is very very dangerous if not used correctly, can cause kidney damage and severe dehydration (cause of death in may cases). If you have high BP the naps will probably make it worse but I would seek alternate means to control it other than lasix. I will only use lasix if I really have to when I'm hanging onto a lot of water.

Also, IMO, Deca is shit. Causes way to much bloating, shuts dow the HPTA very easily (so test/deca dosage has to be spot on), is a 19nor so progesterone/prolactin inhibitors are recommeded to control prolactin gyno etc. For some reason NPP doesn't display these harsh effects (or to a much lesser degree). I'm a big fan of NPP.

spike suffers high BP when on Dbol and I would guess on Anadrol too, so that is probably the reason he is using it, also I find that I put allot of strain on my kidneys when I don't use a diuretic while on Anadrol, as my body holds to much water (in my ankles, etc) and that is the first sign of your kidneys taking major strain.. I would just drink lots of green tea which is a natural diuretic and see how you respond to it as well as it being a nice detox agent.

I personally will never take Anadrol again, but I found that Turinabol is a seriously amazing product, little more pricey but well worth it..

STUARTF wrote: Lasix is a duiretic and is usually used pre-contest to drop water. It can also be used to lower blood pressure and this is the reason Spike may use it. It is very very dangerous if not used correctly, can cause kidney damage and severe dehydration (cause of death in may cases). If you have high BP the naps will probably make it worse but I would seek alternate means to control it other than lasix. I will only use lasix if I really have to when I'm hanging onto a lot of water.

Also, IMO, Deca is shit. Causes way to much bloating, shuts dow the HPTA very easily (so test/deca dosage has to be spot on), is a 19nor so progesterone/prolactin inhibitors are recommeded to control prolactin gyno etc. For some reason NPP doesn't display these harsh effects (or to a much lesser degree). I'm a big fan of NPP.

NPP = 19NOR = DECA

No way around that. It will shut you down hard - fact. I found that the NPP only really started kickin in at week 7 or so. Week 12, when i stopped, i was going great therefore i would suggest 15 weeks on NPP. The Test Prop would then carry on for another 2 weeks or so to clear the NPP before the PCT starts. You dont have to wait long like in the case of long estered AAS to start your PCT.
And remember - that 2 week runout is at low test - 100mg EOD. I just always added 4 weeks and always had successfull PCT's.

Anapolon at the start was to make some nice gains before seeing the results from the NPP/Test. For the impatient only. If you are prepared to wait for everything to reach optimum plasma levels, GREAT, wait and drop the Anapolon. I like the idea of Anapolon playing an active role at peak stack as well. Use it further into your cycle or at the end - week 12-15. I like it so would go a bit longer but all the write-ups suggest 3 weeks for optimum results. So 1-3 or better 4-7 + 12-15 would be my choice.

That cycle produced some of my best results. I will combine it with what i have been doing for the past 16 weeks - PGW Primo - for all future cycles. The best 2 cycles of my life.