holding size natural

Glutamine is as MYO said easily absorbed and for that reason makes it ideal.

What JackR said is also true, if you consume for instance 200gram of WPC a day and you have a proper protein rich diet it is only needed in small doses.

The thing is that even among BB ur diet can lack something, you dont want it to be protein! It is also true that excess Glutamine will simply be excreted.

The bottom line is that Glutamine is vital, if you believe you get enough of it through your diet thats ur choise. It is taken in such small doses and not that expensive if put against other supplemements that I would rather take it than run empty on amino acids. Amino Acids is after all the building blocks of muscle.

LSJ,
When and how much glutamine do you use daily (I'm on cycle now and don't use glutamine, but will buy today)
Thanks

NB1

NB1 - compare bodyguru's prices on SSN Glutamine vs springbok (think evox deal is cheapest - 2 for one).
Got a real good deal from bodyguru a week ago - buy 1 get 25% off on the scond - key ring light/T shirt and really nice lifting straps.

I use close to 30g/day at the moment 10 breakfast, 10 pre- and 10 post workout.(on frontload with dbol and going nuts!)

5g Creatine, 5g BCAA, 10g Glutamine (breakfast/pre/post)

Thanks jack,
I will follow your routine of pre and post workout.
I am really close to a Dischem. They do sell SSN and Evox there. Plus I like to tell the laaitie in Dischem with the USN shirt I don't buy shit.....

Greetings

NB1

Northboy,
Jackrabbits intake is good, you can use that. You might even fall to 20gram a day should you feel your diet is super and you use enough WPC.

Just one thing with regards to the creatine, tests have shown that the body can't "load" for more than 3 days, after that ur just peeing expensively. Use a "loading" dose of 10 - 20gr a day for 3 days and then lay off for three days. Repeat cycle.

LSJ wrote:

BigDave I'm going to have to disagree with you. If you read up on it you will see that its not worthless. If you dont believe that its fine but between what I've read and what some of the respected members on this forum have said I definately do not think its worthless, I in fact think it is quite vital.

Just my point of view

www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/spo...ing_the_dogma_part_2

www.johnberardi.com/articles/qa/afc/afc_nov082002.htm

www.abcbodybuilding.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59633

"We conclude that glutamine supplementation during resistance training has no significant effect on muscle performance, body composition or muscle protein degradation in young healthy adults."

Please list your studies showing it has a beneficial effect on muscle breakdown so we can have a discussion (based on science) on the pro's and con's of glutamine supplementation?

myotest1 wrote:

Bigdave or should i say 'Dofdave' if you really believe your statement of saying that glutamine has no anti-catabolic properties then just carry on mate.

Glutamine is one of the most abundant amino acids in the human body so when you consume it your body utilises those glutamine aminos you have ingested first instead of attacking those hard earned muscles.

Buddy if that is not anti catabolic then i suppose, gh , juice etc is a figment of all our imagination.

Big D DO SOME RESEARCH !

MYO!

From : www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/spo...ing_the_dogma_part_2

"Things That Mom Never Told You About Glutamine Supplementation

It’s important to examine the method used for getting glutamine into the body in the human studies presented. Unfortunately, getting glutamine into our blood and to our muscles is a lot harder than one may expect. It was mentioned earlier that many cells of the body use glutamine for fuel. Well one area of cells that just loves glutamine is the gastrointestinal tract. In fact, it can account for up to 40% of glutamine utilization in the body! Now figure out the first area to come into contact with our "wonder supplement," and you can see that you have to take a whole crap-load of the stuff all at once, just so our gut doesn’t use it all!

Now, dumping 20g of one amino acid into our bodies at once may sound fun to some, but then again we can safely call these people masochists. For the rest of us, this huge glutamine dump may lead to some GI distress, which we all know is NOT fun.

Fortunately, the two studies performed with bodybuilders using relatively high dosages of glutamine (0.3g/kg/d and 0.9g/kg lean mass/d) reported no side effects of any kind.(2, 7) What is unfortunate is that the authors of these studies also showed no positive effect of any kind!"



Myotest1, who looks "dof" now ?

Now, do as i did so many times in tha past.
Relax, and dump the question into your google search. Read what comes up. There are MANY articles on the benifits of glutamine supplementation as well.

www.bodybuilding.com/fun/goulet10.htm

And many more.

jackrabbit1 wrote:

Now, do as i did so many times in tha past.
Relax, and dump the question into your google search. Read what comes up. There are MANY articles on the benifits of glutamine supplementation as well.

www.bodybuilding.com/fun/goulet10.htm

And many more.

Bodybuilding.com is a supplement store. They stand to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars if they started dissing glutamine.

Read scientific studies that have no financial interest in the sales of glutamine.

Thats just one example. There are many more. All of them have references to medical lit as well. You will have more people shouting from the glutamine corner btw.
I hear you point, but i cannot ignore all the articles in favour of Glutamine either.

What made you take that stance on Glutamine? You have scientists saying different things. They all have qualificfations - which one do you believe?

Bla bla bla, those are three articles medical lits etc

Bigdave globally there are millions of satisfied glutamine users and the reason why they continue to be satisfied is that they are experiencing positive benefits from glutamine supplementation.

We could argue back and forth and i could further paste millions of 'pro' articles on this topic but what it comes down to is the proof that it is in the pudding and i know from a personal standpoint that especially under a caloric deficit ie contest dieting glutamine supplementation is crucial so the body does not raid the muscle tissue first for those aminos and hence muscle as glutamine is the primary amino and the most abundant in muscle tissue.

What would you say to eliminating all glutamine in your diet Bigdave i think you would get small, weak and sick in no time.

But hey each to themselves!. Glutamine is also a vital component to gastro intestinal health in smaller dosages, your first process in the tissue building process that is bodybuilding is absorption from your gut, now if you cant absorb much i think it is safe to say that you would battle to grow a single toe nail let alone develop a 22" arm, Gastro intestinal health plays a major role in all human health and even more so in our sport where to have a super absorbing gut is a huge bonus and no pro calibre physique is without that.

BigDave i personally and i am sure if we took a poll the rest of the respected members would agree in glutamine supplementation as a staple especially in heavy training cycles

jackrabbit1 wrote:

Thats just one example. There are many more. All of them have references to medical lit as well. You will have more people shouting from the glutamine corner btw.
I hear you point, but i cannot ignore all the articles in favour of Glutamine either.

What made you take that stance on Glutamine? You have scientists saying different things. They all have qualificfations - which one do you believe?

Articles are opinions. Show me scientific studies that ORAL glutamine is anabolic/anti-catabolic.

Well said MYO i agree fully with your point, we do train so hard that leaving out this seemingly staple just leaves too much to chance and makes the difference between actually recovering quicker getting stronger and growing bigger and lets face it thats what its all about.

These articles are summaries of listed/referenced medical studies.
I'm outa here.

Helps restore plasma glutamine levels depleted after periods of physical stress (e.g. prolonged exhaustive exercise) (Krzywkowski et al. 2001; Bowtell et al. 1999; Castell and Newsholme 1997).

Helps support immune system health after periods of physical stress (Shils et al. 2006: Newsholme 2001; Griffiths 1999).

Helps support digestive system health after periods of physical stress (Shils et al. 2006, Newsholme et al. 2003; IOM 2002).

Helps to assist in muscle cell repair after exercise (Newsholme et al. 2003; IOM 2002)

David Barr fingers a few situations when glutamine supplement will prove useful for the bodybuilder, so here is a chance to see if your glutamine should still be in your budget:

- Glutamine supplementation could prove useful for bodybuilders who decrease their testosterone levels after coming off a cycle improperly. Muscle breakdown is at its highest in these circumstances despite a quality nutrition plan, so glutamine might help.

- During a pre-contest training regiment that consists of very low calories and high volumes of exercise, protein breakdown is much more likely. Basically, any extreme dieting or fat loss program with the hopes of getting extremely lean can result in increased stress, therefore increased catabolism. Competitive bodybuilders and fitness models are perfect examples of those who might benefit from glutamine supplementation in this above-normal fat loss situation.

- During incidences of extreme weather conditions and/or multi day training, there are situations where extreme stress can be counteract with glutamine supplementation. Triathletes and endurance athletes come to mind.

- " Glutamine supplementation would be beneficial for conditions where catabolic waste is at its peak. Severe burns, severe colds or flu's, severe allergies, alcoholism, chemotherapy, HIV/AIDS, irritable bowel syndrome are a few examples.
(About The Author, Vince Delmonte - Vince DelMonte is the author of No Nonsense Muscle Building: Skinny Guy Secrets To Insane Muscle Gain found at BuildMuscleEasy.com/ .

He specializes in teaching skinny guys how to build muscle and gain weight quickly
without drugs, supplements and training less than before.)

There is a couple for you BigDave. I will repeat what I have said before - It is ultimately ur choise to use or not to use a supplement. I personally will use all the help I can get with regards to protein supplementation and do what I can to maintain good health. It is also quite inexpensive next to any other supplements so it makes sense to use it.

We can turn this in a copy and paste warzone. You are welcome to ur opinion and I have mine. Scientific studies does not hold that much water either (I did research for 4 years) Depending on who is paying your research you get to a degree of conclusion.

They for instance still have not determined if cell phones causes cancer - there are 100's of papers written by highly respected scientists from either side. Who do you believe?

Like MYO said "The proof is in the pudding"

LSJ wrote:

There is a couple for you BigDave. I will repeat what I have said before - It is ultimately ur choise to use or not to use a supplement. I personally will use all the help I can get with regards to protein supplementation and do what I can to maintain good health. It is also quite inexpensive next to any other supplements so it makes sense to use it.

We can turn this in a copy and paste warzone. You are welcome to ur opinion and I have mine. Scientific studies does not hold that much water either (I did research for 4 years) Depending on who is paying your research you get to a degree of conclusion.

They for instance still have not determined if cell phones causes cancer - there are 100's of papers written by highly respected scientists from either side. Who do you believe?

Like MYO said "The proof is in the pudding"

I have a Muscle & Fitness from 1993. In it they do a profile on glutamine, stating how great it is for muscle building, which it is. HOWEVER, they state it won't work as an oral supplement as the intestinal tract will absorb most of it. At that time there were no commercial glutamine products available.

Fast foward to 1998 and there are ads galore for glutamine supplements in M&F and all the articles are describing the postive benefits, without mentioning the fact that your stomach makes it useless for bodybuilding by absorbing it.

Supplement companies are an unscrupulous bunch. They realised they could create a new supplement based on the science of glutamine given INTRAVENOUSLY to burn victims and state that resistance trained athletes would gain the same benefit from ORAL glutamine.

Do you trust supplement companies? I don't. Bill Phillips who started EAS, once said that he felt like he was on DECA using HMB. Come one!!!

Anyways, glutamine is converted into glucose via gluconeogenesis by the liver during periods of starvation/dieting. So the only way it acting as an anti-catabolic is by converting to sugar - why don't you just take some more carbs it will do the same thing.

So then why dont people just start jacking glutamine intravenously?in that way it wont sit in their gastro-intestinal tract??lol

wen using gh n insulin 2gether....n stop training 4a wyl..wil i stil mntain my size?

Khalid you not a mate of FAROOKS are you? This thread was about Glutamine pros and cons not about gh and slin.

You not from the Vernon Koekemoer stronghold are you? Ha ha sorry had to say it bra but no offence hey, i think i am going hypoglycaemic so dont take my comments to heart hey1

In answering your query, i would think it is all down to your diet and how much protein etc that you are consuming, also if you are ectomorphic you are continuously fighting your own metabolism to maintain your tissue, so it is actually a pretty hard question to answer not knowing your bodytype or dietary patterns.

You would be better off banging a little test to give you greater nitrogen retention in your muscle tissues thereby allowing you to HOLD ONTO MUSCLE TISSUE (anti cata bolic)........... and KHALID please get on the glutamine!

Regards MYOB)

thanks 4 the advice myo....