Lean Bulking: Carb Intake

Hi Guys,

It has been a while since I have posted... :blush: At least I still follow the posts...hahaha

I am planning on switching my diet from cutting to lean bulking, and have been searching around, and reading the dieting stickies, and would love some input from you guys.

This will be my first attempt at really bulking, as I have been cutting for around 2 years now...yeah I know it has been a long time...hahaha

Anyway, I have not really followed a specific eating plan for the last year, so I have not followed the 6 meals a day approach in a LONG time...

I have worked out my maintenance calories, which comes to 2500...
Age: 31
Height: 187 cm
Weight: 84kg
B/F: 15%-18% (Guesstimate, I still have some lower stomach fat/skin)

Right, to the actual question
I have read in the stickies that it is preferable to keep your carb intake around workout time, but is this still true for when you are trying to lean bulk?

How I see things, you go work out, break down your muscle fibers, and then feed the rebuilding and recovery of these muscle fibers for the remaining 23 hours of the day. So we use carbs to help shuttle the nutrients for this rebuilding and recovery process. Now because this is an ongoing process, that can take a couple of days, does it then not make sense to keep the carb intake stable throughout the day?

The other side of the coin is that too much carbs will end up as stored energy (Fat), which is also not something you would want.

Apologies if this sound all over the place, but I am trying to get my head around this. I feel like a total newb, as I have been in a low carb/keto mind frame for so long.

Shot guys,

Santa wrote: Hi Guys,

It has been a while since I have posted... :blush: At least I still follow the posts...hahaha

I am planning on switching my diet from cutting to lean bulking, and have been searching around, and reading the dieting stickies, and would love some input from you guys.

This will be my first attempt at really bulking, as I have been cutting for around 2 years now...yeah I know it has been a long time...hahaha

Anyway, I have not really followed a specific eating plan for the last year, so I have not followed the 6 meals a day approach in a LONG time...

I have worked out my maintenance calories, which comes to 2500...
Age: 31
Height: 187 cm
Weight: 84kg
B/F: 15%-18% (Guesstimate, I still have some lower stomach fat/skin)

Right, to the actual question
I have read in the stickies that it is preferable to keep your carb intake around workout time, but is this still true for when you are trying to lean bulk?

Yes

How I see things, you go work out, break down your muscle fibers, and then feed the rebuilding and recovery of these muscle fibers for the remaining 23 hours of the day. So we use carbs to help shuttle the nutrients for this rebuilding and recovery process. Now because this is an ongoing process, that can take a couple of days, does it then not make sense to keep the carb intake stable throughout the day?

We keep carbs for around workout time because that is when your body can use it the best and most efficiently. No reason you can´t add in carbs at other parts of the day, it just depends on how your body responds to them.

The other side of the coin is that too much carbs will end up as stored energy (Fat), which is also not something you would want.

True, and the amount of fat you would store as a result of the extra carb intake is something every person need to find out for their own unique body.

Apologies if this sound all over the place, but I am trying to get my head around this. I feel like a total newb, as I have been in a low carb/keto mind frame for so long.

Ask my dude. How else are you gonna know?

Shot guys,

Thanks Pyro.

Over the weekend I unpacked all my BB magazines, and had a look through them, and checked out some of the diets the competitors use, and saw that it seems they use carbs throughout the day. I then did some research, and got stuck on the fact that carbs are anabolic, and that your muscle fibers are not only being repaired post workout, but for days after training, so in my mind it make sense using carbs throughout the day to shuttle the required nutrients for the repair process.

I was thinking of giving carbs a go throughout the day, and like you mentioned, just check how my body responds to it. I have not been on a traditional BB eating style for a very long time, so just like my cutting attempts, I guess I would have to play around with my macros, and check how my body respond.

On this note, I was thinking of splitting up my macros as follows:
Protein: 35% (220g / 880 Cal)
Carbs: 45% (283g / 1331 Cal)
Fat: 20% (55g / 502 Cal)

It sounds like so little food, but I though of giving it a shot on my maintenance calories, and see how my body responds, and take it from there.

283g of carbs is PLENTY trust me on this! The thing that worries is that you struggle so much to cut. Not always, but generally it is indicative of someone sensitive to carbs or who has a a slower metabolism. In both these cases, if you fed this person 283g of carbs they would swell up like Rosey O´Donnell. It won´t be pretty if you gain all this nice lean muscle but with a layer of lard over it hey?

Thank you Sir. +1

Yes it has been an ongoing battle getting rid of all the fat...hahaha...
As teenager I was always tall and thin...but then came the parties and drinking...and over the years I turned into a fat@ss...

About two years back I stared dieting, but this was more on and off, so I don't think it was so much a struggle to get rid of the fat...it was mostly a struggle with dedication...for the last year I have been just eating low carbs...playing around with keto and IF...but was not really dedicated for long periods...

All in all I came down from 118kg to 84kg...but it feels that I am getting too skinny now, and that is why I am planning on lean bulking..

The carbs sounds low, but trying to fit this into my diet, using "clean carbs", I can see that it is actually quite hard...hahaha...getting the protein in is the easy part...

Santa wrote: All in all I came down from 118kg to 84kg...

That´s great dude! You should be proud.

Thanks Bud...now for lean bulking....to fill up the frame again...

I will update the thread with my experience...

santa seeing you have been in a low carb frame of mind it might be a better option to keep carbs around training.the reason u have done well with low carb/keto is there is low insulin levels. i have found that having proteins and fats during the first part of the day actually helps with insulin sensitivity,meaning that your body will better utilize carbs you ingest. so if you can keep carbs to fuel your work out and then off days have a lower carb intake and a higher protein intake. why not look into carb cycling where your do do 5 low/moderate carb days a week and 2 higher 450-900g carb based days. just make sure you are depleted enough to utalize carbs at that level otherwise you will spill over and store fat...

Thanks DJ... (Glad to see you around again )

I was playing with the idea of carb cycling, since I am trying a lean bulk.
I am training first thing in the morning, and I am following the Stronglifts program to help me get my strength up. The program gets me training 3 times a week, so it might be a good idea to start with carbs only around those three days, around workout time, and see how it goes from there?

Dammit! Shitty internet destroyed my message (more like essay) I typed for you It sounds like your body responds a lot like mine

The just of it:
Make a slow transit. The best is to stay on your current plan and strategically
add in carbs (and subtract fat IMO) to get you to a point of growth.

Vary your diet. The idea you have of adding in carbs on the 3 lift days are perfectly
on par with what I would recommend. Ensure you are eating a lot less on rest days
to avoid disappointing fat gain.

All of the best man, and keep us updated!

Thank you Bud. I am making a habit of first copying my respond before posting, as I am also struggling with internet connectivity...hahaha

I have re-worked my diet yesterday again, to only include the carbs around training time, and then see how my body respond. The idea is to have High Protein/ High Carbs during the first half of my training day, and then High Protein / High Fat for the remaining meals and on rest days.

My idea was to start with maintenance calories, 2500, and take it from there. Because the idea is to carb cycle, my daily calories will be the same each day. (Carbs only around training)

You mention that on off days I should be eating a lot less. Should I rather revisit my diet and increase total calories on training days with say 20% and on non training day 20% below maintenance?
This way I will not only cycle the carbs, but total calories as well. (Saying this out loud makes sense hahaha)

Shot for all the help.

Santa wrote: You mention that on off days I should be eating a lot less. Should I rather revisit my diet and increase total calories on training days with say 20% and on non training day 20% below maintenance?
This way I will not only cycle the carbs, but total calories as well.)

Yes bro, think of my suggestion as calorie cycling. Eat on non-lift days - cardio is not lifting :whistle: - as you would on your cut and add in those carbs as to achieve maintenance calories on lifting days only.

Santa wrote: I have re-worked my diet yesterday again, to only include the carbs around training time, and then see how my body respond. The idea is to have High Protein/ High Carbs during the first half of my training day, and then High Protein / High Fat for the remaining meals and on rest days.

Perhaps even minimize fats on lifting days. Because of the carbs on lift days, you want to achieve a "storing mode" (all dat dere insulin ect.) and you are getting enough fats on non-lift days, so additional fats would be superfluous and potentially lead to fat gain.

Shot man.. +1

I will alter my diet to decrease the fat intake on non-training days...which will then result in less than maintenance on non training days.

I will give it two weeks and then check how I respond, and will let you guys know how it goes...
(We are going down to the coast this week, so I will be dieting again from the week after next. )

How can you not eat fats on training days and still get enough calories in for a proper surplus? Even if you eat carbs the whole day I don't see it happening. And the amount of carbs he will have to eat is gonna bugger up the whole concept.

@Pyro: Well anything over 2000 is a surplus for me so I have no difficulty...

That and denser foods mate.

Yeah sure bud but that is unique to your body. 90% of people bulk on 3000-4000kcals while not gaining fat. 2000 for a surplus is very little hey.

Pyro I'm so small I use the children's urinal without noticing it.
I'm so small I can't use plates to do lunges 'cause they interfere with my ROM.
I'm so small picking up the dumb-bells from the rack counts as a upright-row.
I'm so small I need a Reebok step to get on the treadmill.
I'm so small I need to stand on a phone-book to get blown.

We can take this to the jokes thread Pyro; I can go on...

Listen here don't try get short with me Frodo!

Sho...4000 Cals now sounds "moer baie" :ohmy:

I was afraid to post up my "diet", but now thought that it might be good to show you guys what I am planning..

Right, before you guys give it to me, in my defense I would like to point out that I am struggling eating certain foods. Please do not think that I not committed or anything, I have had difficulties with foods since I was small. (When I order a burger, I even tell them to remove the sauces, tomatoes and lettuce...)

SO after my attempt at forgiveness:
- I do not eat any cooked vegetables
- I really struggle getting down oats and chicken breast.

Right, I have used the below calculations to determine my maintenance calories:


Below is my planned low Carb diet for non training days:


Below is my planned High Carb diet for training days:


While I am on a roll, I thought of also adding some before and after pics...Hope no-one recognizes me...hahaha

Before Front (118kg):


Before Side (118kg):


About two months back: (86kg)

Damm...I did not think the images would have been this huge...hahaha...sorry guys...
Anyways, I thought of sharing these with you guys, perhaps this will draw a better picture of my physique changes, and the way forward for me.

I would love any feedback you guys have..I have posted the pics, so now I am in it to win it...hahaha

My idea was to first start with maintenance on training days, and then lower cals on resting days, and see how my body respond. I will then upload pictures every two weeks, and if it is fine with you guys, we can then assess my progress together, and decide what to change up... (Sounds like Online coaching...hahaha)

Will something like that be allowed? I know there are guys charging for stuff like this, but just thought while this is a free forum, lets see if anyone will want to assist me in my journey..

I will upload newer photos as soon as we are back from holiday, which I will then use as my new "before" pictures...just need some tips on how to take the pics. (Flexed, certain muscles, etc)

Again, shot for all the help thus far guys...after posting my pics I am all of a sudden motivated to transform and show myself what I can achieve...hahaha

I also though of providing my measurements, these were taken about two weeks back, and I will take new measurements before I start with my new diet:
Waist: 91cm
Arms: 35cm
Chest: 109cm
Thighs: 57cm
Calves: 38cm
Forearms: 29cm
Shoulders: 122cm
Neck: 42cm

First off have some karma for your hard work! +1

Regarding your diet It's fine if you eat certain foods because you can't stomach others. You need more protein from pure sources. Also for your non training days make the first three meals carbs and protein and the rest protein and fats.

Judging from your first pic You don't wear your fat around your mid section. Post a pic of your thighs and back please.

Thats a great transformation there dude.:thumbup:

Thank you guys...

Well I use to carry all my fat in my tummy, used to wear a size 42 jean pant...down to 32 now...hahaha

Regarding the carbs on non training days, so you would advice that I don't cut out carbs on these days? So i will then get carbs in everyday, just in the first half of the day?

I will take some better pics, more closeups, and also some leg shots...but remember on the inside I am actually a tall skinny guy...hahaha...so legs are not great...