Pre & post work out nutrition

ok i've never ever been one who is knowledgable in this area and i was wondering whats the best to take in pre work out and post work out? i train at 2 o'clock and i usually have my chicken and brown rice at 12:00 +/- and then as soon as i come home i have whey protein with 20grams of honey and creatine and glutamine..i have found since i've cut calories i have noticed a decrease in strength and endurance(from the lacking of carbs odviously) now if i am on a cut and cutting back carbs to say 150grams per 24 hours,what is the best amount of carbs to reserve for post and pre work out nutrition?

Well. Here is my pre workout drink/ schedule
1 x Animal Pack/ or ASt Multipro 32X
1 Serving AST Dymetadrine/or Furnace XT
1 Serving EAS phospogen HP/ or Evox Creatine Fusion
1 Serving whey Protein
300ml Water
2 Grams Beta Analine

Post Training
1 Serving EAS phospogen HP
1 Serving whey Protein
300ml Water
2 Grams Beta Analine
10 grams Glutamine
5 Grams -L Leucine
500mg NAC

Thus I take 50 grams fast acting carbs before and after training.
I follow my shake with another one 30 minutes later that consist of
400ml Skimmed milk
1 Serving Whey Protein
1/2 Serving Muscle Science Grow
10ml Flaxseed Oil

Or

Cytosport Muscle Milk
300ml ilk
10ml Flaxseed

Mxt,

Where do you buy your AST products from. I ordered from Bodybuilding.com once and customs conviscated the stuff, thinking that it is illegal! Now I lost my money and my supplements?

What brand Leucine and Beta Analine do you use and where can I obtain it?

My last question to you is... How much simple carbs (Dextrose, maltodextrin) is allowed with the post workout shake! I'm dieting for comp.

Thanx Mxt!

kraz wrote:

Where do you buy your AST products from.

www.performancesupplements.co.za/index_files/ASTProductList.htm

They don't have all the AST products at the moment, but send them an email; maybe they can get you what you need.

would this be a good plan for pre work out,post work out and then an hour after:

prework out

20grams staminade(20g of carbs)
during workout
20grams staminade.

post work out
60grams whey protein
20grams honey
10grams glutamine
10grams creatine

hour after training
6boiled egg whites(20grams protein +/-)
60grams of oats (34grams carbs 10grams protein)

is this the right sort've thing to do?i did that today and my work out felt as good as it did when i was bulking...

The rule is to keep ur simple carbs in and around training- so its looking good. i would mix some of that whey protein in with the staminade before trainig -60 grmas of protein is a lot for one go and ur body needs those amino acids constantly. i use Prima Force beta-analine. Leucine I either use Supplenets SA's Leutamine -which also has BCAA and Glutamine or I import 1kg from PureProtein.com. i source from wherever-usually BB.com but sometimes local. Stephe at performancesupplements will help you.

oooooh goody...ok well i'll shall start doing that...i think is gonna taste a bit foul but hey its not about taste its all about growth right how many grams of whey before and after training? 30grams before/during training and 30grams with the honey after? good idea? and also my solid meal,does it have to be exactly an hour after my shake coz ffs when i finish that shake i am gnawing at the counter top for food....

A good ratio post workout is 40 gr prot(preferably pure whey if possible) and 60gr of carbs.
MXT is right on about the simple carb usage and its timing.
Pre-workout, about 20gr of prot/whey or aminoacids is usually enough.

I use MuscleCutz about one hour before I train - 40gr of prot and 52gr of carbs and an extra 10gr glutamine, the latter taken in about 3,5gr dosages from lunch time. N.O.Xplode 2 servings 10 minutes before training.
Within 20-30 minutes out of the gym, my post workout drink consists of 54gr Pure Whey(80% whey isolate powder)in 500ml water and 60gr of Vitargo mixed in 500ml water and another 10gr glutamine.
This might seem large numbers, but I do weigh over 120kg's. If you are in the 80-90kg's category, you will probably need less.
The 40%:60% ratio I mentioned, is a good post workout drink ratio.

ok i usually do my cardio on an empty stomach,when i come home i usually have my bowl of oat for breakfast,is it worth while adding creatine post cardio or is it not really gonna make a difference?

Id never do cardio on an empty tummy...to start with ur glyco levels are depleted so ur in starvation mode. ur body doesnt resort to breaking down fat then but climbs into protein which uis easier to breakdown for energy. and the goal of cardio is NOT the 100 calories u burn in the gym BUT the elevated metabolic state it induces for the period after training. There is a very sore point for a lot of people ou there but science doent lie. Nothing wrong with taking creatine after training is anabolic thus muscle sparing Id also ad some Glutamine

ok so what do u recommend for my morning cardio? how many grams of carbs?10-20?obviously in the form of simple sugars?see this is what i love about this forum,ask and u shall receive the answer...

anyone wants info on deep house music gimme a shout can help you out hehe

By the time you wake up, your liver glycogen stores will be depleted. You need to replenish this with a simple to medium carb before you attempt any cardio, or else the body will start using the easiest source of energy available at this stage and that is usually amino acids(depending on your carb intake the previous day and your available muscle glycogen stores).

At this stage you don't need a lot of carbs - just enough to fuel the first half or so of your cardio workout. The reason for this, is to get your body metabolism started early morning and to raise the body temperature. This assists in fat burning from your earliest part of the day. After your workout, try and optimize the fat metabolism by not taking in any food/calories for atleast 30-45 minutes.

Now, how much carbs should you need? On average, you need about 20gr of carbs to replenish liver glycogen.
Take a 100gr banana and that will give you about 22gr of carbs. The greener the banana, the lower the GI index(intermediate), the riper it is the higher the GI index(more simple carbs).

Medical studies have shown doing cardio on an empty stomach, early morning, will increase fatloss by 300%!!

If you are planning to build/retain muscle, always fuel with a little bit of carbs - you don't want to use your essential amino acids!

would energade/gatorade be good mixed with whey protein before work out?

my sister just gave me 5 cases of gatorade left over from a promotion that she was running...

With regards to the carbs pre cardio in the morning. Surely the 20g carbs would off set fat loss to a degree by first spiking insulin and second fueling the cardio with 80cal. Wouldnt you rather just take in 20g whey with some BCAA's and glutamine?

I think muscle getting burned up through cardio is not a serious issue unless your doing hours of cardio a day. Dj you'd get lean on weights 4 times a week with 3 cardio sessions of 20 min (in the am) and a clean diet...

Personally, this is what I do when I get lean. I use the banana on days when my cardio session is followed by some calf, abd and hamstring training. Otherwise, I opt for what Kevin suggested.

ok so u saying if i am jsut doing cardio in the morning i must have whey and glutmaine instead of a banana...ok...

I would but thats because im a natrual fatty and putting weight on is easier for me than loosing. If your like Doc then you are blessed and have the banana , faster metabolism.

All depends on what your body responds to , which you will learn in time.

I know Lee Priest used to pound cardio and eat more when he dieted. Francis B does no cardio and eat super clean.I know they are not normal people as we know it but just examples that there are many ways to loose fat. Choose an approach then next time around try something new, after some time you will know what works best for you. Personally I have no time for cardio so I opt for cleaner eating and less cardio. I also really dislike cardio in a gym.

Very true what Kevin is saying. You will need to experiment. I had a lay-off from cometitive b/b for about 12 years. During this time, I lost a lot of knowledge on how to diet. When I decided to compete again, I worked out some form of a diet and ran it along with the typical 13 week pre-contest prep training. I did this no less than 3 times, without using any AAS's. This was very frustrating, but by the end of this, I had a framework with which I could work from. Then I got into my first 16 week pre-contest prep and followed the diet - this time with a solid course of AAS's. As I went on, I refind the framework week by week until it was tweaked to such a tight control, that I could literally see a change in my appearance in only three days if I increased or decreased my calories by as little as 150 pd.

When I prepped for my second competition, it went even easier than the first. I knew what to do and what to expect. Now, for this year, I will use the same framework throughout the whole season and add on some calories and see if I could gain some more lean mass and come in heavier than last year.

Don't be shy to experiment. Rather do like I did - experiment a couple of times before you decide to experiment during your pre-contest prep and you mess up all your hard work. Have as many ducks in a row, before you enter that critical last 13 weeks pre-contest.

ok doc just a question,you say 40% protein 60% carbs post work out? so 30grams of whey and 1 50gram serve of evox creatine mix(cant remember the name)with 10grams of glutamine is ok? 20grams protein 40grams carbs? now what should it be pre work out? i have been doing 30grams sugars (1 x 500ml gatorade) and 20grams of whey protein,is that good? or must it be switched up a bit? and also,the meal i have an hour after weight training,must it be morstly starchy carbs?

Starchy carbs depend on what time of the day you train. If you train in the afternoons, and you want to consume starchy carbs after 16:00, I would not recommend it. If however you train in the mornings and eat the starch carbs (sweet potato) at around 10:30 - 11:00, I don't see any harm in that.

Pre-Workout a mix of 20g-25g Protein with 30g Simple carbs is suffiecient.
Post-Workout a mix of 40g Protein with 60g carbs is perfect.

Note: This is for a person with similar stats to yours.

Enjoy, and keep experimenting

Djeasye, Kraz gave you a good reply...

cool so i have been doing it right so far...PHEW!!! hehe..see now this really is the game of experimention to me...i used to believe that simple carbs were the devil seeing that i am generally carb sensetive.... now that i know that my body works well to brown rice and oats and only to have simple carbs pre and post work out is like the shit that dreams are made of...must admit that i do have more endurance when training,i never used to use anything other than good ol H20 before i trained....

Guys, this thing of being "carb sensitive" is quite a bit of bullshit!!
Give ANY person enough carbs - any type of carbs - and he'll get fat!! Your body's metabolic ways has always been designed to use carbs first for enegy. Whatever you don't use, will be stored in the liver and muscle tissue and the rest goes to fat stores! Proteins, however, always get shunted to muscle tissues first - it takes very complex metabolic reactions to take place before proteins can be broken down to such an extent, that the remaining molecules can be used for fat storage..

see doc the thing is i put on a lot of body fat when eating white rice,i was still eating the same quanitity of white rice as i am of brown rice but i am seeing to get leaner..thats why i thought that i might be carbohydrate sensitive!