Iron Kobras cycle log

Hiya,

Well, after more than two years of reading this forum and learning as much as possible (and enjoying the back and forth banter between members) I have finally done my first pin last night.

And I have to say I'm disappointed....

My skin didn't turn green. My veins didn't pop. My quads didn't swell and rip my jeans into shreds. And I certainly had no urge to smash anything.

Seriously though, it was a great experience and I have to say thanks again to everyone that's given input and all the members here that are willing to share information and help us newbies out.

The pin was painless and easy. I actually kind of enjoyed it. And I've always been afraid of needles. I guess it shows how motivation changes perspective.

Currently at 78kg and 11% bf according to the virgin active measurement. I usually sit at around 84kg but lost weight earlier this year due to a back injury.

My goal is to put on 10kg and keep 8 during this cycle.

Some before pics taken this morning when I got up.





I'll post some diet info later as I'd love some input. Im pretty confident about it but one thing I've learned is you don't know what you don't know.

Cycle consists of tbol kicker, test cyp throughout, Winnie bridge and PCT 2. hcg from after TBol.

Looking forward to the journey. Eat clean, eat a lot, lift heavy and rest. Let's do this.

Iron K.

Agh f#$#. Tapatalk deleted my entire post again. Will repost.

(Edit) for anyone else experiencing Tapatalk deleted post I realised anytime I put in an emoticon it deletes everything after that. Annoying.

Hi guys.

Quick question. I've just realised at 40mg of tbol a day for 25 days as a kicker I only need one bottle (50 caps at 20mg a cap = 25 days.)

Somehow when I ordered from my supplier I miscalculated and order two bottles of Tbol.

Would it be safe / advisable to increase my daily dose of tbol during the kickstart phase seeing as I have an extra bottle? If so what dose would you recommend?

I have one bottle of oral Winnie as a bridge. But running a low dose. 20mg a day for 25 days between test and PCT. Should I maybe include tbol into the bridge with Winnie?

Or should I just keep the tbol for another cycle. Although I'm not planning another one for at least a year.

IK

Then run the tbol for 6 weeks @ 40mg ED. Dont include the tbols with Winnies on bridge. I would add another bottle winnies and up the dose to at least 40mg

Good frame to work from btw +1

Thanks on both counts Oupa. Will do as you recommend for both tbol and Winnie.

Awsome and I hope all goes well. Enjoy it and keep us posted.

Welcome to the world of Vitamin S! Your going to enjoy the extra Tbol

I mostly use tapatalk, and noticed no problems with emoticons, only with switching apps.

Good attitude and courteous post. You are most welcome to keep us updated and we'll try to help you along.

Ciao

Looking awesome Iron!
Well done bro and keep up the great work! +1

Nice Iron !
I started the same cycle 4 days ago , will post an update in a few weeks time.
Just curious how you are splitting your Tbols up during the day ? Are you taking all 40mg at once ?
I normally train at 18:30 so I have decided to take the first 20mg at 06:00 which will last until 21:00.
The second 20mg at 15:00 which will take me through to the morning again at 06:00.
This gives me an overlap between 15:00 and 21:00 which sort of sits in the middle of my training.

Hey Namaste

I train at 06h00 in the morning so I'm taking 20mg at 05h00 and 20mg at 17h00 in the eve so I should be getting a similar overlap.

Don't know about you about I'm already experiencing drastic results. I know it's probably mostly water retention at this point but I look much thicker and have put on almost 2kg since Friday.

Did my second pin today and can't wait for the journey to continue.

Quick question for you... you only store the hcg in the fridge after its mixed with the water right? I'm keeping it my cupboard while its still powdered.

IK

That's excellent !
I cant really compare , I had a change of mind at the last minute to change my dbol to Tbol and was left hanging until yesterday. So basically I took my second pin last night as well as my first Tbol. :oops:

As far as I know you are right , only refrigerate once mixed.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thanks and will do. Enjoy the Tbol man. I did an oral primobolan and proviron cycle a while back and it doesn't compare to the Tbol in my opinion. Loving it.

Hi all,

Thought I'd give an update. Apologies in advance for the long post - I'd also like to post my diet and training schedule for anyone's input / critique. And lastly a few questions about the gear.

Exactly a week now since my first pin. Strength has increased and the scale has increased by 1.5 kg. Getting INSANE pumps when training. Generally I'm feeling good and experiencing no sides at all - just feeling quite tired. I really struggled to sleep the first few nights (I'm not sure if that was a side effect of the drugs or due to my excitement. )

My second pin was a lot more painful than the first, and two days later Im still feeling quite a lot of pain in my left glute. From what I've read, this is normal though, so not too worried. I'm attributing it to the fact that I had to pin with my left hand this time which was a lot more awkward and less steady. It bled a bit after, which never happened on the right glute.

Guys, I have a question about my training routine. Usually I train one muscle group a week: three days on, one off, two days on, one off. Since my first pin, I've changed this routine to just cycle a four day body split with no rest days, because I'm assuming the gear will assist with more rapid recovery. The split is:

Day one: Chest / bi's
Day two: Quads
Day three: Shoulders / tri's
Day four: Back / Hamstrings
Calves, abs and forearms alternating every day in the evening (I train the major muscle groups at 6 A.M.)

My workouts generally are modeled around +-25 mins heavy compound, low rep for strength and thickness and then transition to 30 mins hypertrophy training for shape and size.

Is this the correct approach? Do I need to be taking off days? I try and sleep 8 hours every night and keep my diet in check, so am hoping that I can cycle this four day split throughout the 11 week period. Or do you think I will see more growth if I stick to my 3 days on, rest, 2 days on, rest approach?

In terms of diet:

05h00 - 2 scoops Nutritech Whey, wheatgrass, vitamin C, coconut oil
05h40 - nutritech amino pre, creatine

intraworkout - 2 scoops supplements SA massive muscle, 1 scoop nutritech Amino Blast

Post-workout - 2 scoops whey, wheatgrass, vitamin C, NT multi vitamin and mineral, creatine

08h30 - 170g chicken, handful of white pasta, broccoli, 2 boiled eggs, pineapple

10h00 - 2 scoops whey, 100g jungle oats (drink them down raw with my whey)

12h00 - 170g chicken, handful of white pasta, broccoli, 2 boiled eggs, pineapple

15h00 - 1 tin tuna, spinach, broccoli, pinapple, 2 boiled eggs

18h00 - 170g chicken, half a medium sweetpotato, half an avo, 2 slices mozarella cheese, 2 tbl spoons olive oil

20h30 - 2 scoops NT casein, 2 tbl spoons olive oil, 1 tbl spoon flaxseed oil, 1 tbl spoon fish oil, 500ml full cream milk

In all honesty, I often miss the 15h00 meal and replace it with another whey / oats (40g) shake. I have quite a busy work schedule which does make it difficult to stick to my diet, but if I have to miss a meal I make sure I eat it later in the day.

Any recommendations / critiques would be highly valued.

Lastly - Oupa recommended that I run Tbol for 6 weeks considering that I have an extra bottle. Does this impact when I should start taking HCG? I had planned to start the HCG on day 28 - 3 days after my TBol was intended to run out. Now the Tbol will last until around day 49. Not sure when to start the HCG.

I'm using Biogen Milk Thistle. Taking one pill with each Tbol I take. Is this sufficient for liver protection?

Thanks to those that take the time to read my thread and give input. I really appreciate it.

Cheers.
Iron K.

I'm glad the cycles going well so far Iron K. With the rest days I would say try have at least one a week mines never on a set day if I feel my body needs it I take one even with the gear the rest is still needed to grow.

The diet looks fine to me see how you respond and can make some adjustments if need be. The way I see it people can only give you guidelines on what to do you need to figure out what works best for you and I'm sure you will.

Stick to the original plan with the hcg no need to change that.

Hey Kobra,
Lots of whey. Your choice, don't be phased if people tune you about it. If you're busy and you can hit your calories that way, so be it .

Training:
1) Why take an entire workout for quads? Unless you're a cyclist I don't understand this. Not bashing you Kobra, I've seen it in the past before. I don't see the appeal of becoming a Trex.
2) You need a break between back and bicep days.
3) In a bro-split, Back deserves it's own day IMHO.
4) Don't your forearms tire?

Hope it makes sense.

Good point Furk I agree back needs some special attention I see some guys split it into thickness and width workouts.

lobo wrote: ... split it into thickness and width workouts.

It comes down to elbow positioning and grip actually. Horizontal and vertical planes if movement play a smaller role than most people understand.

Edit: Hope I'm not derailing this thread too badly. Also, lobo I'm not calling you out on that comment, just sharing knowledge.

Hi gents,

Thanks for the input. Furk, not derailing at all. My hope is to engage with members not just on the gear but on all aspects of the lifestyle. There's always so much to learn.

@Lobo - Thanks. Will start hcg when planned then. With diet I'm generally pretty good at making adjustments as I go. At the moment I think I need to swap out the white pasta for sweet potato.

@Furk - Yeah, I rely on whey too much at times but based on my work / family schedule and the fact that I often struggle with having an appetite it's the only way I can hit my macros sometimes. A whey / oats / olive oil shake can really come in handy.

In terms of training, one of my goals during this cycle is to balance out my body and bring up weak areas. I've always had under developed legs. Started from boxing / jiu jitsu years back when I only focused on building upper body strength. There have been times when my arms have almost been thicker than my thighs. O_o my back is by far my strongest point but I hear you, maybe I'll consider switching hams to join quads. My reason is I rely heavily on deadlifting as a base for back which recruits the hams so I figured to piggy back off that and finish them in the same session.

Agree 100% regarding elbow and grip for back and make sure I hit it from all angles.

Noted regarding rest. I'm still feeling strong and recovered enough so will keep at it everyday until I feel my body needing a break. I've had a drastic increase in strength so I'm not pushing at 100% just yet cause I'm weary of pressure on joints and tendons. Maybe this is why I'm able to recover quick enough to not rest. Will monitor it as I push to the limits.

Cheers
Iron K

I remember this saying training back is like sex you have to hit it through all the angles. Thanks furk always open to ways to improve I knew it by excersises like T bar row thickness and say pulldowns for width didn't know the specifics about elbows and grip take it closer grip for thickness then.

I try lead with my elbows on back excersises to take out as much of arms as possible read a pointer of phil heaths on flex with him getting ready for the O and he was talking about taking the momentum out of back movements made a difference i don't lift as heavy tho but get a better back workout.

Lobo go watch Ben Pakulskis videos on back training. He explains a lot of the biomechanics behind the various muscles and gives awesome tips on correctly positioning your shoulders, elbows, abs and hands to best recruit the muscles. I'm also a major fan of his principles of time under tension and how to apply it to back (or any) exercises.

Iron K

Kobra, I don't see (or feel) a problem with instinctive training (or rest in this case). If you can hit consecutive days and progress, your body has no problem. My concern comes in with CNS recovery, I personally also have no problem with lots of training but I don't think we can judge CNS hand like muscle fatigue.
Anyway, good luck and have a swole Sunday.

Very informative thread guys.
Good luck Kobra!
Nate

Thanks Iron K will do that. I followed the first MI40 with a mate for awhile opened my eyes to different tempos of training still throw in an excersise here and there with a 4 second negatives gets the burn going.

Let us know when that t bol kicks in properly.

Hello again gents,

I wonder if some of the members that have done the beginner bulk cycle wouldn't mind sharing their experience regarding their rate of muscle mass gain. I've stated that my goal during and post this cycle is to put on 10kg of lean muscle and keep 8 after PCT.

I set this goal quite randomly because I don't really know what to expect but wouldn't feel satisfied if I didn't come out above 85kg post cycle.

I know everyone will respond differently to the gear and diet, training and rest play an important role but I can be quite hard on myself and would like some kind of benchmark to monitor my progress against. If I can't realistically expect to put on a kilo a week of muscle I'd rather know than give myself a hard time and over analyse my diet and training constantly.

On a separate note, I stopped smoking about 3 years ago. But I still vape every day (e-cigarettes). I've tried to research the interaction of nicotine from vaping (non - combustion process) and the drugs in my cycle but haven't found anything useful. Do any of you vape and do you feel it negatively impacts your results?

Cheers
Iron Kobra.