intermittent fasting

anyone have experience using intermittent fasting for fat loss or muscle gain. spesifically leangains. what was the results like?

Have a look around. There's already a thread regarding this

Megusta wrote: anyone have experience using intermittent fasting for fat loss or muscle gain. spesifically leangains. what was the results like?

Leangains and Renegade are both great. Renegade worked for me a bit better as it was more structured.

I dropped about 6% bf in 12 weeks while gaining some weight as well.

Not everyone likes it but it definitely worked very well for me.

Megusta wrote: anyone have experience using intermittent fasting for fat loss or muscle gain. spesifically leangains. what was the results like?

I've been doing IF for the last 3 weeks now for fat loss and really can't find anything to complain about. Down 7kgs so far (5kg water drop in the 1st week), size and strength is holding up perfectly and in fact I'm still improving on some exercises. IF suits me perfectly as I don't like eating close to when I've woken up and I don't like small frequent meals. I don't want to just eat... I want to a FEAST! Loving it :lol:

How does IF work actually? I mean what does it entail or how is it structured? Never attempted something like this so quite interested. Will google a bit as well.

MCJ wrote: How does IF work actually? I mean what does it entail or how is it structured? Never attempted something like this so quite interested. Will google a bit as well.

Nevermind. I found what I was looking for

@DC EVO - is the Renegade diet you speak of the one by Jason Ferrugia?

ninjajuice wrote: @DC EVO - is the Renegade diet you speak of the one by Jason Ferrugia?

Yes it is.

Very similar to Lean Gains, just more structured.

I'm glad I stumbled across this topic because it seems to me that everyone has great success with this.

I would like to know if fasting twice a week for 24 hours or doing it on a daily basis where you have the 8 hour window to consume your macros are better?

If doing the one on a daily basis with the 8 hour window period, when is it recommended to train?

Wimmas

I combine everything. Im doing IF. 16 hour fasts and 8 hour feeds. i'm incorporating keto as well. basically this is it;

I'm on a fat loss protocol. On workout days i eat 10% above maintanance calories and non workout days i eat 30-40% below maintanance. Workout days may macro ratio is 30/40/30 of protein, carb,fat. Non workout it is 40/20/40 (actualy more like 40,0-10,50-60. i eat as little carbs as possible and more healthy fats or coconut oil or macadamia nut oil.

i have 2 meals before i workout.


1:00 meal 1 (20-25% of daily calories)
3:30 meal 2 (same % as meal 1)
5:30 workout
8:00 last meal including post workout shake (50- 60 % daily calories)

i then incorporate 1-2 days in the week with 24 hour fasts to speed things up.

Wimmas wrote: I'm glad I stumbled across this topic because it seems to me that everyone has great success with this.

I would like to know if fasting twice a week for 24 hours or doing it on a daily basis where you have the 8 hour window to consume your macros are better?

If doing the one on a daily basis with the 8 hour window period, when is it recommended to train?

The way something like Renegade by Ferruggia works is 16 hour fast, 8 hour feed. Train whenever you want. Fasted training in the morning does burn more fat though and personally for me I'm a lot stronger fasted than fed.

Ferruggia recommends organic througout. Hard to do due to the expense so I stick to what i can get. Get the main parts right and the smaller parts will get worked in over time.

He recommends 100grams of carbs per day if your over 15% body fat and the vast majority of your carbs to be in the evening. Which means for the main part of the day stick to plenty of veg, meat and fats. He also recommends plenty of digestive enzymes to help heal the gut.

Off the top of my head that's all I can remember for the moment.

My daily schedule looked like this:
Up at 6am - 500ml water and my vitamins etc
11am train
12pm 10g BCAA, 10g glutamine, 10g creatine
12.30pm - 2/3 chicken breasts, salad, and free pour the olive oil
4pm - 2/3 chicken breasts, salad, and free pour the olive oil
7pm - basmati rice/potato/wraps etc (100g worth)and 500g red meat
8pm - bit of dark chocolate, some fruit

evo. is your profile picture you?

That diet looks like it is very flexible.

Sounds good and i like the idea because the three meals that you consume are large so you will not be hungry! it actually suits me quite well as I normally wake up anywhere from 8am to 10am everyday (the joys of being a student), so for me to eat between 12pm-8pm is actually normal!

I would also think to exercise on an empty stomach is good but then i would think right after the workout one needs to consume a well balanced meal with preferably your main carb source such as brown rice? Or am i wrong?

I also like the idea of zig zagging your carbs depending on the days you work out!

I haven't read one article or seen one video of someone who hasn't had success following a IF diet!

It leaves me with one question: Most of the authors writing these books on IF say that there is no evidence that eating 6 meals a day (obviously according to your macros) actually increases your metabolism, specifically your resting metabolic rate. Studies have apparently shown that people on a fast's metabolism does not change?

The internet is a great source of info but I think it confuses most people as well, especially me!

i might be wrong, but according to all my studies and reading ive figured that the metabolism only starts slowing after more than 2-3 days consecutive fasting. Thats why this is called the IF protocol. Its intermiting the fast. Its not in a row

Megusta wrote: evo. is your profile picture you?

That diet looks like it is very flexible.

Unfortunately not me Megusta - I've been meaning to take a new pic for here and I would say it's fairly close now.

Wimmas wrote: Sounds good and i like the idea because the three meals that you consume are large so you will not be hungry! it actually suits me quite well as I normally wake up anywhere from 8am to 10am everyday (the joys of being a student), so for me to eat between 12pm-8pm is actually normal!

I would also think to exercise on an empty stomach is good but then i would think right after the workout one needs to consume a well balanced meal with preferably your main carb source such as brown rice? Or am i wrong?

I also like the idea of zig zagging your carbs depending on the days you work out!

I haven't read one article or seen one video of someone who hasn't had success following a IF diet!

It leaves me with one question: Most of the authors writing these books on IF say that there is no evidence that eating 6 meals a day (obviously according to your macros) actually increases your metabolism, specifically your resting metabolic rate. Studies have apparently shown that people on a fast's metabolism does not change?

The internet is a great source of info but I think it confuses most people as well, especially me!

The problem and the great thing with nutrition is that it's highly individual.

Metabolism doesnt start to slow until about 36hour mark according to the IF guys and the studies they cite.
You definitely don't need carbs straight after a workout although you could do something similar to what I was doing and just add 30-40g of dextrose and that will more than suffice until the main source of carbs in the evening.

The IF guys tend to go on the side that metabolism is increased more with having 2 or 3 larger meals. I know for a fact that if I have a huge meal of an evening ( on CBL now) that my body temp is through the roof while i sleep and i wake in the morning ravenous. I never get that with small meals. Anecdotal maybe, but that's how it is for me.

dc you should post a pic. ill be posting my before and afters soon as i start my cycle.

How would intermittent fasting affect ones energy levels in the case of high intensity training? Is it geared more towards body builders or is it good for strength and conditioning type training too? For instance would someone that does MMA or crossfit training benefit from this diet?

What about someone that does 2 short but intense sessions a day?

ninjajuice wrote: How would intermittent fasting affect ones energy levels in the case of high intensity training? Is it geared more towards body builders or is it good for strength and conditioning type training too? For instance would someone that does MMA or crossfit training benefit from this diet?

What about someone that does 2 short but intense sessions a day?

IF could work for bodybuilding, sports, strength and conditioning type training. IF is not a diet in itself but rather a new approach to eating times/intervals.

IF and high intensity training: When working out with weight during the initial 16 hour fast don't do it on a completely empty stomach , but instead consume 10g of bcaa's or eaa's before the workout. When you do cardio during that fasted period you should preferably go completely fasted. I've found that if you workout fasted that power output is not negatively influenced or even enhanced, but that endurance might suffer. Consume 10g bcaa or eaa post workout or post cardio. These do not count towards your daily macro nutrient/calorie break down.

You basically have 3 types of IF or 3 different protocols.
Wheight/fat loss
Lean Gains (Cutting fat whilst gaining muscle *)
Bulk

Ill give you examples of each.
Im currently on fat loss.

I have my high calorie workout days and lower calorie rest days. Workout days you can eat starchy carbs and fruit, and rest days opt for fats, protein and fibirous carbs. I work out my maintenance calories according to DJ's article. Depending on what protocol you follow you do the following:

Weight loss: workout days go 10% above maintenance and rest days 30-40% below maintenance.

Lean gains: workout days go 20% above and rest days go 20% below.

Bulk: Workout days go 30-40% above and rest 10% below.

All 3 protocols incorporate some strategy to keep body fat levels as low as possible.

Depending on your schedule you will eat at different times.
FAsted traing
1 pre workout meal
2 pre workout meals

I follow 2 pre workout meals because of my working hours.
Example of my workout day. I'll also give you a ballpark figure of the calories in a meal. Im at work and in a hurry typing this! lol

Workout day Ratios will be protein,carb,fat (30%,40%.30%)
Rest days ratios (40%,10%,50%)

meal 1- 20 -25% of daily calories
meal 2- 20- 25% (about the same as meal 1)
Meal 3 (post workout included. I devide my last meal between post workout shake and a solid meal) 50-60% of daily calories.

I do opt for healthier food choices although you can get away with almost anything ei: if i have to eat bread, ill eat whole wheat or low gi. i dont like eating bread though! i like fruit.


4:30 - Fasted cardio, ECA, Yohimbine
5:30 - 10g BCAA

13:00- Meal 1: Today ill have 4 slices pizza and scoop whey protein, hot chocolate, orange. (about same size as meal 2) colleague at work bought lunch :woohoo:

15:30- Meal 2: 200g chicken breast fillet made in coconut oil,
low gi Anat wrap, 15g feta, lettuce, cottage cheese, apple

18:00- workout

20:00-Post workout shake: 500ml full cream milk, 2 scoops whey, 2 bannanas.

21:00 solid food last meal : 250g extra lean beef mince, small can off Koo curry vegetables, 100g brown basmati,wild and lentil rice. Meal replacement shake on top of the meal. (you can eat solid food, but i'm not always very hungry)

I supplement with fish oil omega 3's, krill oil, cla, multi vit, vit D, and when using clen or heat i take Taurine.
I try to avoid meal replacements or whey where i can and opt for whole food. On rest days ill use more fats like coconut oil, PEO oil, flax, peanut butter, nuts, olive oil etc and eat more eggs etc. The carbs on rest days are bassically just the trace amount found in the food.

I try to keep it flexible.
Hope this help. Maybe it can become a sticky for all other IF guys.

If you choose 1 pre workout meal you will have something like:
Meal 1- 40% of calories
Meal 2 and 3(post workout) 60% of calories. Divided by the 2 meals following your workout.ei; meal 2 (50%calories) and meal 3 (10 % calories)

I also taper the amount of carbs later in the day.

If you do fasted training: 80-90% calories in meal 1 post workout.
Meal 2 and 3 rest of calories

Megusta, if I train at like 15:00, what would a good IF plan be?

Biltong(100g) and a fruit is all I have at 14:00, then from say 17:00-22:000 I can eat what I want as long as its in the range of calories?

gorilla wrote: Megusta, if I train at like 15:00, what would a good IF plan be?

Biltong(100g) and a fruit is all I have at 14:00, then from say 17:00-22:000 I can eat what I want as long as its in the range of calories?

Ahoy

Id say the 1 pre workout meal will work best. I train at about 5 or 6. Thus i start eating my first meal at 1. You can eat what you want and still get results but all calories aren't created equal. My suggestion is, where possible, try healthy and clean. If you want a KFC colonel burger meal, get one. It shouldn't do to much damage if your calories stay in check and as long as you don't eat a burger every day! :lol: or eat it in the large meal after your workout.

Thanks bud, what would you say is a good pre-workout meal while IF ?

How about oats,raisins and ff milk?

a KFC burger :woohoo: I'm hungry

gorilla wrote: Thanks bud, what would you say is a good pre-workout meal while IF ?

How about oats,raisins and ff milk?

Ya now i want a kfc burger! :silly:

Oats,raisins and milk sound good.You have your faster and slower releasing carbs that should get you through a workout, some fibre and fat. maybe add a scoop of whey cause the protein in that meal is a bit low. I usually treat my first meal as if it was a late breakfast or a brunch and then eat that kind of foods. I still have macro ratios. Mine is 30,40,30 of pro,carb,fat.

Hey gents, reviving a old thread here because creating a new one that is on topic of a current thread seems pointless.

Planning on a cut in a months time using IF protocols, just about everything is set up. Will be doing gear based-on the "Beginner Cutting and Strength Cycle", my thanks to the author. Anyone know how orals effect insulin and the fasted state? Var and prov specifically? I'm in doubt how to dose these two, 'case usual you want around the clock test increase by taking them at set times every day. In the fasted state your body absorbs those orals a lot better than usual. So will taking them break your fast?

Thanks in advance

edit: for reference see -> leangains.com
-> www.elitefitness.com/forum/diet-bodybuil...hread-947273-40.html
-> examine.com/leangains-faq/#summary17