So it begins ...

think i nullified my shot today, woke up late so took 5iu at 6.30am, 10min later had a energy sachet.......one i usually use is sugar free, only after half asleep i spotted it has 8g carbs :ohmy: usually avoid all carbs 3 hours before and 40min after shot

anyways still reading up alot and considering the split dose again i seem to be the only one doing one shot a day at anything above 3iu lol

hmmm well today is 4 weeks , over the weekend experinced aching wrists at night for the first time, hands still extremely tight.

i just cant believe how much i sleep , i worked late thursday , slept most of friday, friday night. 2 naps saturday, 2 naps sunday, and 2 naps yesterday lol which for me is unheard of.

this weekend regarding training and diet was a disaster, with easter egg hunts and the like, it was chocolate sweets chocolate sweets lol , also training was non existent Friday saturday and sunday.

but had a great delt workout yesterday, 99.8kg in the am , and off to do arms later , quads and hams tomorrow etc etc

so other than feeling soft and guilty , back at it hard today. been relying to much on shakes as work has been very demanding of late , but suppose better than nothing.


btw a few people are now confirming that the blue tops all have the same raw material in them from the same chinese pharm company so kefie = nomatropin , noma = kefie aaraghhh i am so confused :blink:

Hey dude, i've been having weird feelings in my body too, eg: I can't lie on my side as my arm goes extremely lame (numb) then it takes ages to come right, so I have to sleep on my back... body is just very saw.

00pump wrote:

Hey dude, i've been having weird feelings in my body too, eg: I can't lie on my side as my arm goes extremely lame (numb) then it takes ages to come right, so I have to sleep on my back... body is just very saw.

you been on for awhile (cycle) ? i am finding its very regular, every 3-4 weeks it almost forces me to take a few days off feel shattered lol then i am good for a few weeks.

the numbness i used to get alot when i carried more weight especially in the arms if i slept in any position that applied pressure to them, always pinching nerves or blood flow, luckily not so much these days.

Geared up, im a little worried about these hands of yours, especially with the use of slin. Do you get any numbness in them at all?

no numbness spike at all hey, just very tight like when carrying alot of water, i dont go crazy with the slin , its strictly post workout only , i wouldn't use it after going in and training calves on my off day for example. so 4-5 days a week max , and with all the off days of late even less. maybe had a proper 2 week run to be honest otherwise here and there.

joints are not happy , mainly elbows, what i do experience is an irritation where my fingers join my palm it comes at night its something i experience off and on, whether on cycle or not and its very frustrating as it can keep me up, only thing i can liken it to is like having restless leg syndrome for those that have experienced that, no i see its back every few nights

hmmm, thats pretty peculiar, must admit im at a loss to explain it. Will ask a few colleagues and see if can find you any answers

spike wrote:

hmmm, thats pretty peculiar, must admit im at a loss to explain it. Will ask a few colleagues and see if can find you any answers

appreciate it, it seems very common with gh, especially those of us that dont ramp the dosage lol, the tight hands and numbness is usually caused by water in the joints applying pressure to x and y etc ?

Gearedup wrote:

no numbness spike at all hey, just very tight like when carrying alot of water, i dont go crazy with the slin , its strictly post workout only , i wouldn't use it after going in and training calves on my off day for example. so 4-5 days a week max , and with all the off days of late even less. maybe had a proper 2 week run to be honest otherwise here and there.

joints are not happy , mainly elbows, what i do experience is an irritation where my fingers join my palm it comes at night its something i experience off and on, whether on cycle or not and its very frustrating as it can keep me up, only thing i can liken it to is like having restless leg syndrome for those that have experienced that, no i see its back every few nights

I had the same on 5iu Kefei. I had to cut back to 2ius for a while(Think 1 week) and eventually settled at 4iu for most of the way. Later i could go back up to 5iu with no discomfort.

Take 10iu a day, split dose morning / evening. 1 day on 1 day off. your body should/will handle the dosing better.

thanks guys

spotted the 10iu a day and got very very happy 00pump...........then the one on one off lol


jackrabbit hw long did you run for ? and how was your experince results wise at 4iu ? did you run ed or 5 on 2 off?

well hands even tighter today, which as a few have told me is spot on, most sides become apparent 3-4 weeks in and wala , its not painfull in anyway just uncomfortable. as long as it doesnt get worse i can live with the sides for now, plus its about time that i switch to 5 0n 2 off structure, i did the ed for 4-5 weeks to get everything peaked.if this doesnt work will try your guys suggestions

well elbows still giving issues and my rotator cuff is back yay

had to be very selective of exercises yesterday training arms , hammer curls killed my elbows but barbell curls were fine go figure , close grip bench was fine but dips and skullcrushers out the question.

have had 2 good workouts in a row and was very proud of my diet the last 2 days , been spot on and hovering 3700 -4 000 cal a day. weight back again at 101 mark.

today is legs , def something i want to work on, so going to kill them today as best i can.

warm up
squats 4 x 12-6
hack squats 3-4 x 10-6
leg press 3-4 x 15-8
leg ext 3 x 12 (to accentuate pump)

lying leg curls 4 x 12-8
stiff leg dead lifts 4 x 10 (if lower back allows after quads)

seated calve raises 10 x 12 30 sec rest between sets (this might be pushed till tomorrow with pecs)

Gearedup wrote:

thanks guys

spotted the 10iu a day and got very very happy 00pump...........then the one on one off lol


jackrabbit hw long did you run for ? and how was your experince results wise at 4iu ? did you run ed or 5 on 2 off?

well hands even tighter today, which as a few have told me is spot on, most sides become apparent 3-4 weeks in and wala , its not painfull in anyway just uncomfortable. as long as it doesnt get worse i can live with the sides for now, plus its about time that i switch to 5 0n 2 off structure, i did the ed for 4-5 weeks to get everything peaked.if this doesnt work will try your guys suggestions

well elbows still giving issues and my rotator cuff is back yay

had to be very selective of exercises yesterday training arms , hammer curls killed my elbows but barbell curls were fine go figure , close grip bench was fine but dips and skullcrushers out the question.

have had 2 good workouts in a row and was very proud of my diet the last 2 days , been spot on and hovering 3700 -4 000 cal a day. weight back again at 101 mark.

today is legs , def something i want to work on, so going to kill them today as best i can.

warm up
squats 4 x 12-6
hack squats 3-4 x 10-6
leg press 3-4 x 15-8
leg ext 3 x 12 (to accentuate pump)

lying leg curls 4 x 12-8
stiff leg dead lifts 4 x 10 (if lower back allows after quads)

seated calve raises 10 x 12 30 sec rest between sets (this might be pushed till tomorrow with pecs)

If you check the only trials done for hGH it shows better results on the same ammount of gear with a 1 day on 1 day off approach. As this is tapping into a more 'normal' way your body would use GH. Also people who get sides from the GH your body can handle those sides better with the above split too.

pump have been reading alot about this approach lately and alot of overseas comp guys have switched to a eod split of big doses , most are on around 20iu shot eod, only difference i have seen is they seem to be doing the shot in 1 go postworkout .

i am still a little confused on this approach especially the postworkout as a common held belief is that carbs 30min after the shot counteracts the shot so i dont know how they work this in to the slin and post workout nutrition routine? also the jury seems to be out on raising igf levels too much and the risk of stimulating "already active" cancer cells in the body , 5iu as you suggested seems to be the "safe " limit to take in 1 shot.

i have just erred on the side of caution and gone with the most common approach , but i am all for experimenting and fortuantley due to gh length of cycle, i am going to give this approach a bash as well and judge results from each

IGF takes months to raise up to the point you are talking about from GH, we not talking about the release from the liver (which insulin can also be produced and not just by the pancreas)

Remember hGH can cause a huge amount of insulin resistance so that is why some people like yourself will supplement insulin (which in this rare case I might actually think is a smart move) running high is not a good idea at all.

And what from what I can see, hGH + Slin is best to take post workout with a nice fast acting carb to have all the nice growth factors that will come from the liver. Yes some say insulin causes some resistance on the way the GH works, I think that statement is confused and mixed up and actually works the other way around. The only thing that makes me think otherwise is the way the body naturally produces growth hormones (deep sleep). why would it do this? This would be the time insulin would least be used in the body, why would our bodies work this way?

Remeber all those hormones work together...

hGH -> stimulates IGF from the liver

IGF -> Stimulates protein sythesis

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Insulin stimulates body's absorption of nutrients

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hGH slows down insulin release from the pancreas yet increases muscle size + growth not only from your original cells but newely created cells too.

...

So we mix that all together and throw in some thyroid drugs we have a body running at over drive for growth stimulation.

Hence the post workout being the best way to drive amino acids and glycogen into the body after a hard workout and stimulating massive growth factor.

thanks for that makes alot of sense ! my understanding is the gh starts getting active after around 30min and is active for 3-4 hours after shot, would it not also make sense to take it pre workout ? this was my schedule when i was training at 5am, take shot at 4am , pre workout nutrition starting at 4.30am , i have just been so tired from the gh i cant get up and have rather harnessed the extra sleep and moved workout to lunchtime.

so an example schedule would maybe be :

pre workout nutrition
train
postworkout shot gh 5iu example
postworkout slin shot
10min later postworkout carb creatine glut mix
20min later whey shake
etc etc

?

and its time to go train legs........i am so excited............no really ...............

GH works almost immediately after injection and reaches its peak at this point too. From what I know the half life is only around 30 minutes... So inject the GH -> 30 minutes later inject the slin, so, increased glycogen levels from the GH and the insulin will then be used to transport that to the muscle for repair (muscle building). The GH will not cause any growth in the size of the cells that is where the slin comes in to feed the muscles and being on gear and being anabolic will then aid that much further in the protein synthesis. It is all such a delicate balance and that is why I am so afraid of insulin, not because of my lack of knowledge as I have been around it forever, but I don’t know of a hormone that when replaced doesn’t slow down the secretion of the replaced hormone. And it’s not the fact of injecting the Insulin it’s just the bother when you get older and stopped going to gym and now you are insulin dependent. If I could say draw the line and have a well planned goal in mind that is only for a temporary time I would say it, however that is never going to be the case ?

So just to recap, inject the GH morning and after training for best results in your case you are training in the morning, maybe look at like you said moving your training to luck or afternoon and use your injection protocol accordingly, pointless taking it at bedtime as I said in an earlier post when you in your deep sleep this is when your natural growth hormone will be at its highest.

Also just remember don’t inject the slin before the GH or we might be chatting to you again, hence you suffering from hyperglycaemia and become hyperglycaemic. The only way you getting out of this low is with a glucose pen (and nobody there “I’m guessing” to know what is wrong with you). And depending on the amount of insulin taken you might need to eat a few times afterwards just to find a balance. Once you have a low like that your sugars are going to be all over the place and I wouldn’t be surprised if you start running high the next few days (body’s defence force to prevent a diabetic coma) and this is the most dangerous time to try stabilize this with slin. Remember the “pseudo” effect you get from trauma, your body might be running high but it’s a “false positive”.

thanks for that, what about gh shot 30min before end of workout ? then slin immediately post workout ?

i am fortunate that straight after gym the people i work with know my protocol and are aware if i hit a low , same with morning training, everyone around me the hour after training is aware. i don't carry a glucose pen but carry oral glucose as well as coke etc, i make sure i have liquid as well as solid sugar. switched to intramuscular slin shots now , did 12iu delt shot immediately post workout with the relevant carbs.its now in full swing and feel 100%

what is it about training quads, i dont know how you guys manage to train anything after quads, have to do hams and calves after pecs tomorrow, there is no ways anything meaningful was gonna happen today.

4 x squats 12-6
4 x leg press 15-12
3 x hack squats 12
3 x leg extension 12 (hold and pause every rep)

Carry a pen, if you get too low your body will not absorb it in time. You will clench your teeth / close your mouth and not allow anyone to help you. Even sometimes syrup (rubbing on your gums) in the mouth is not enough to get you out the state. And you sure as hell are not going to drink coke on your own account. Dude be safe, get the pen, it has a life of 6 months or a year (can’t remember). Show a few guys there how to mix it if ever need be and jab yourself... Do you carry a kit and blood sticks with you? What humalog are you using?

i used to have a pen on my last run , but that was some time ago, will get another pen now.

usually carry sticks and a glucometer with me, but after awhile i get used to judging exactly where my sugar is, smallest sign of hypo i notice, first for me is sweating and immediately my concentration goes, thats why i never take shot then shower for example, i need to spot the first sign quick enough then i immediately start to remedy it before it becomes a major problem.

i use lilly humalog 3ml pen, for me i usually feel the hit, then my biggest danger usually is just before second meal at around the hour to hour and a half meal,i can usually feel when my post workout shake carbs have been used up

Ok it seems like you have some knowledge of what you doing. That is the only reason I refuse to comment or help anyone on slin and downright recommend not doing it.

Just remember sometimes your body gets so used to running a specific way you start to lose those 'sensors' you talking about.

The testing kits are not expensive and you only really need to test once a day, I would twice. You have no idea if your body is screwed up and running high, etc. If you run slin don’t take the gamble, monitor yourself and don’t play the guessing game. Those pains you saying could be from running slightly high ?

00pump wrote:

Ok it seems like you have some knowledge of what you doing. That is the only reason I refuse to comment or help anyone on slin and downright recommend not doing it.

Just remember sometimes your body gets so used to running a specific way you start to lose those 'sensors' you talking about.

The testing kits are not expensive and you only really need to test once a day, I would twice. You have no idea if your body is screwed up and running high, etc. If you run slin don’t take the gamble, monitor yourself and don’t play the guessing game. Those pains you saying could be from running slightly high ?

thank you, funny thing you mention that, i was lying in bed thinking of spike last night .............*waits for that to sink in* ........... hahaha no what he said about the hands, my mom was a severe insulin dependent diabetic for over 50 years , she too suffered stiff hands and then carpel tunnel syndrome that required surgery. now it is very possible it could be the slin but why i have ruled it out is because it started before the slin, it has got worse and last night was the worst but it is well within everything i have researched gh wise, the tight hands the wrist pain which is now evident all within the exact timeframe markers that the majority suffer the sides. also with no ramping i was bound to hit them.

i hear you completely on my bodies sensors and one thing and the biggest danger with slin is complacency , ahh been doing it so long its ok if i forget my coke at home etc .


lol well funny now, the last post i made i was trying to make sense of your post and immediately realized i was going hypo, only to look up and it was 5 min late on my second meal , and there case in point complacency

i am 110% with you on recommending or advising on slin, i cringe everytime, i have no problems with using myself and i might sound like a hypocrite , but i am my own responsibility and i can live with putting myself at risk but i cant putting others at risk , yet you want to advise because you can see it going all wrong

00pump wrote:

Ok it seems like you have some knowledge of what you doing. That is the only reason I refuse to comment or help anyone on slin and downright recommend not doing it.

Just remember sometimes your body gets so used to running a specific way you start to lose those 'sensors' you talking about.

The testing kits are not expensive and you only really need to test once a day, I would twice. You have no idea if your body is screwed up and running high, etc. If you run slin don’t take the gamble, monitor yourself and don’t play the guessing game. Those pains you saying could be from running slightly high ?

thank you, funny thing you mention that, i was lying in bed thinking of spike last night .............*waits for that to sink in* ........... hahaha no what he said about the hands, my mom was a severe insulin dependent diabetic for over 50 years , she too suffered stiff hands and then carpel tunnel syndrome that required surgery. now it is very possible it could be the slin but why i have ruled it out is because it started before the slin, it has got worse and last night was the worst but it is well within everything i have researched gh wise, the tight hands the wrist pain which is now evident all within the exact timeframe markers that the majority suffer the sides. also with no ramping i was bound to hit them.

i hear you completely on my bodies sensors and one thing and the biggest danger with slin is complacency , ahh been doing it so long its ok if i forget my coke at home etc .


lol well funny now, the last post i made i was trying to make sense of your post and immediately realized i was going hypo, only to look up and it was 5 min late on my second meal , and there case in point complacency

i am 110% with you on recommending or advising on slin, i cringe everytime, i have no problems with using myself and i might sound like a hypocrite , but i am my own responsibility and i can live with putting myself at risk but i cant putting others at risk , yet you want to advise because you can see it going all wrong

Gearedup wrote:

thanks guys
...jackrabbit hw long did you run for ? and how was your experince results wise at 4iu ? did you run ed or 5 on 2 off?

Ran for 12 boxes - i think. Just kept buying more!

Got plenty welts etc and then the stiff/swollen/tingling hands. Basically dropped my dose until the discomfort went away. Then upped it again until it came back and found my tollerance that way.

Ran it non-stop, full dose in the morning only. Couldnt carry a split dose to work.

I think i missed the boat and didnt get the results i expected. But then my whole cycle didnt quite turn out right. Looking back i think i overtrained. I must say that the size i lost not training for 3.5 months after Nov is comming back quickly.

BTW - You okes are scaring the shite out of me with this thread!