GW and CLEN

Thanks for the input furk,always appreciate your knowledge. Sorry I didn't mention my calories are at 1300 pd, I have refeed days once a week at 2000cals . I've realised that GW won't be as beneficial as I'd like in my current state so I'll save it for later. I'm definitely gonna run Sibutramine next week and I've been looking into Frag

Jono77 wrote: Currently on 104kg,top abs showing slightly. I'm doing as much training as possible at home,skipping rope,crunches,planks,lunges and the works..I've been doing this all now since last week and seeing slight change,so I'm just being patient and consistent.

Calories are slightly up and clean eating,so that's going good.

I just have to ask, how are you measuring progress? With just the scale? How do you feel in the gym? Are you getting weaker and have no energy to train?

I am not going to discount what you are doing, but I don't see this as body building, this is extreme "weight loss" and will also result in you rebounding when you go to even a semi normal life.

If you are unable to maintain strength in the gym, you are body breaking not body building. I am quite surprised that you are able to get into the gym with calories that low.

The reason why you feel results are slower on higher calories is because you probably find you are pushing up glycogen stores and your weight may increase, but like furk has said, at 800 calories a day you are in for metabolic issues.

My suggestion is this, add in 50g of carbs for the first 2 weeks, then add in 20g of fat after another 2 weeks, that would stop the instant water rebound from your dieting plan right now.

Your main goal for a fat loss plan is to maintain muscle mass and drop body fat. If you are weak and dragging ass in the gym then you aren't maintaining muscle mass.

Right now you probably aren't eating enough calories to support healthy functioning organs. I have bikini clients that are 50kgs eating more than 1300 calories daily and still loosing body fat without any cardio.

Empire wrote:

Jono77 wrote: Currently on 104kg,top abs showing slightly. I'm doing as much training as possible at home,skipping rope,crunches,planks,lunges and the works..I've been doing this all now since last week and seeing slight change,so I'm just being patient and consistent.

Calories are slightly up and clean eating,so that's going good.

I just have to ask, how are you measuring progress? With just the scale? How do you feel in the gym? Are you getting weaker and have no energy to train?

I am not going to discount what you are doing, but I don't see this as body building, this is extreme "weight loss" and will also result in you rebounding when you go to even a semi normal life.

If you are unable to maintain strength in the gym, you are body breaking not body building. I am quite surprised that you are able to get into the gym with calories that low.

The reason why you feel results are slower on higher calories is because you probably find you are pushing up glycogen stores and your weight may increase, but like furk has said, at 800 calories a day you are in for metabolic issues.

My suggestion is this, add in 50g of carbs for the first 2 weeks, then add in 20g of fat after another 2 weeks, that would stop the instant water rebound from your dieting plan right now.

Your main goal for a fat loss plan is to maintain muscle mass and drop body fat. If you are weak and dragging ass in the gym then you aren't maintaining muscle mass.

Right now you probably aren't eating enough calories to support healthy functioning organs. I have bikini clients that are 50kgs eating more than 1300 calories daily and still loosing body fat without any cardio.

Well said

I just wanted to add, taking a myriad of drugs to suppress hunger shows you something, you are starving. If you keep your calories at this level your hunger will eventually dissipate showing you a shutting down in metabolic rate.

How many days a week are you training currently and how much cardio are you doing?

I'm currently not in the gym at all,with work and studies I have to prioritise above gym. I do as much training as possible at home but I don't suffer from fatigue or anything at all really? I've been bumping up my calories by about 200 cal every 2 weeks to slowly acclimatise my body. I completely understand that 800cal is stupid low,but it helps me to start from as it sets a high discipline and decreases portion sizing. So it makes it much easier to climb from 800 than to decrease from 2500cal. I'm on my way back up in terms of calories.

I'll take everyone's advice.

I've started skipping last week,and I've been on off running for a while but I'm back into a routine so it's all getting more disciplined.

All in all I've already lost almost 20 kilos,muscle too probably but I'm still holding on to my gains better than expected. I just want to drop my BF% so I can safely cycle next year or later this year.

Empire wrote: I have bikini clients that are 50kgs eating more than 1300 calories daily and still loosing body fat without any cardio.

I can believe this. In 2015 when I was 55kg (sub 7% BF), ate 1400cal/day and could leg press 200kg I can't remember how much my other lifts where, but I could go in and complete sets that people double my weight were doing.

Jono77 wrote: I completely understand that 800cal is stupid low,but it helps me to start from as it sets a high discipline and decreases portion sizing. So it makes it much easier to climb from 800 than to decrease from 2500cal.

You actually made it clear in this paragraph you understand our concerns, but also that you have a strategy and that the extremely low calories is a tool, not a sustainable lifestyle (or long-term expectation). Funny enough, your idea isn't far from 2 similiar strategies.

1) To enter keto faster AND deplete glycogen and/or water faster for a cut: A few days of Protein Sparing Modified Fasting (PSMF). So this is calculating your minimal protein requirements for the day, and only eating that. For sure doing this over a long term it will cause problems such as: metabolic rate (BMR) slowing drastically, protein-gluconeogenisis, lethargy, mental fatigue. But that is NEVER the purpose of this "crash diet". You will get fat/keto adapted quicker, although you probably won't ever enter keto while you PSMF because of the total reliance on protein.

2) To enter keto faster AND deplete glycogen: Water fast. Simple, effective, but contains some drawbacks. If you truly only drink water and ingest no calories, your BMR will actually not slow down. Assuming you are drinking enough, you'll flush water weight off your body really fast.


Downside to both of these is training. I'm straying off-topic probably, so I'll stop there.

Lol thank you for understanding furk,I guess I just got lucky


I'm doing cardio only now and it's going well so far.will keep updating when I experience changes

Quick update,Sibutramine is working as it should,drinking shit loads of water and appetite supression is good. So far I'm pleased.

A friend of mine asked his dealer to get him the best/most potent Fat Burners he could. He got a these pills and said it's like nothing he's ever experienced. The dealer said it's the best shit but my friend can't remember the name of it and can't get hold of him. So he said I should give one a try and it's fucken hectic, increase in body temperature. I told him it kinda feels like clen but without the shakes. I think it's DNP? What do you guys think?

Jono77 wrote: A friend of mine asked his dealer to get him the best/most potent Fat Burners he could. He got a these pills and said it's like nothing he's ever experienced. The dealer said it's the best shit but my friend can't remember the name of it and can't get hold of him. So he said I should give one a try and it's fucken hectic, increase in body temperature. I told him it kinda feels like clen but without the shakes. I think it's DNP? What do you guys think?

Geezuz dude, your approach and behaviour is irresponsible. The warnings against your diet etc. are shrugged off with a smiley, as if to minimize the reality of what you're actually doing. Obviously it is your choice how you want to live this life-style, but as someone who's always seen this forum as a means to find, discuss and encourage responsible behaviour, especially since younger okes lurk these forums to learn and soak up information, I have to call you out. This is not the right way to lose weight, you are being irresponsible with your health, and this nonchalance might encourage other nubs to try the same (please don't if you're reading this).

For all we know there could be literal pieces of human shit in those capsules. Comeon bro. You don't just sluk a capsule without knowing what you're putting into your body. DNP has killed people. Take a few and see if you start melting? Stupid.

/out.

I took 1 cap yesterday,my friend had already taken 7 since last week and the pic is from him. His dealer is trustworthy when it comes to quality,I have used him a few times and know him personally. I definitely think it's DNP,my own supplier also thinks so although he doesn't sell it. I just wanted confirmation for my friends sake from someone here.

It's all trial and error,as furk pointed out the proper description of my diet and plan it's not as irresponsible as first thought.

I appreciate the concern/uitkak and I'm not trying to justify my irresponsible behaviour or recommend it. It's done and I'm just trying to help a friend.

Just be careful. Doing things at the extreme end of the spectrum never bodes well. Also, I try and mitigate consequences and make calculated risks and to each his own. I just know of too many people who have fucked up their lives, working in an addiction rehabilitation center, to stroll past what I deem to be irresponsible behavior. Especially on this forum, since I also used to lurk here and sponge up everything I read.

Good luck.

Can be either DNP or Super Nova I think I have seen a batch or two of Super Nova that looked like those Caps. The test samples normally came in those bags also.

But rather find out phone the supplier and find out.

Witwolf wrote: Just be careful. Doing things at the extreme end of the spectrum never bodes well. Also, I try and mitigate consequences and make calculated risks and to each his own. I just know of too many people who have fucked up their lives, working in an addiction rehabilitation center, to stroll past what I deem to be irresponsible behavior. Especially on this forum, since I also used to lurk here and sponge up everything I read.

Good luck.

Thank you brother

Thanks bul,what is super nova? What's the active ingredient?

Jono77 wrote: I think it's DNP? What do you guys think?

Open the cap, DNP is yellow and will stain anything it touches yellow. That's not a fool proof method, but at least it offers some form of indication. However, it's not wise to take any pills unless you know exactly what it contains.

Jono77 wrote: A friend of mine asked his dealer to get him the best/most potent Fat Burners he could. He got a these pills and said it's like nothing he's ever experienced. The dealer said it's the best shit but my friend can't remember the name of it and can't get hold of him. So he said I should give one a try and it's fucken hectic, increase in body temperature. I told him it kinda feels like clen but without the shakes. I think it's DNP? What do you guys think?

How fast did you feel the effects?

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I will ask him to open one up and ill let you guys know. I felt it about 30min after swallowing and then full force 1.5-2 hours after swallowing.

Jono77 wrote: I will ask him to open one up and ill let you guys know. I felt it about 30min after swallowing and then full force 1.5-2 hours after swallowing.

Not DNP.

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Damn..How should it feel furk?

It'll take longer to feel DNP.

I guess it's possible that it's Super Nova (ECA stack).

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I see..from what I understand it takes a while to build up in your system. I'll see what my friend says after work. Thank for the help guys

I spoke to him last night,he opened one up and said it was yellow powder and I also asked if the effects he feels have been growing and he says yes. Also he got hold of his supplier and he confirmed it is DNP 150mg. He says it been working pretty good,the sweating gets irritating but nothing dangerous in terms of body temp.

So far I'm enjoying Sibutramine, I feel so hydrated

Playing with fire bud...

Tread carefully and drink loads of water

Thanks bul,I already told him