SARMS (SELECTIVE ANDROGEN RECEPTOR MODULATORS)

More info directly from supplier:

In the meantime here is some valuable information I would like to share with
you. This is based on real world feedback from my customers and may answer
some questions you may have, you can also use it to create selling points for
your own operation and to give answers to your customers. I have been
selling Sarms only to the US but I think is time to let it become available
worldwide! I hope you can supply to a lot of people in your region

The average dosage is from 50mg to 200mg daily split in 2 or 3 dosages for 6
to 8 weeks although I have used it for 4 weeks and got good results. Is
recommended to take a break and use supplements to help you free up
testosterone such as Divanillyltetrahydrofuran ( Nettle Leaf ) and L
Carnitine L Tartrate to help clear up receptors.

There is a guy on Outlawmuscle who performed blood work after using Igf-1lr3
and Sarms and the results showed total serum testosterone normal but free
testosterone was a bit low which can be explained due the fact that S4
mechanism of action is thru androgen receptors that is why proviron or
divanillyl may be helpful to free up testosterone from receptors. ( this is
just my theory no facts )

The average 200lb subject uses 100mg daily split in 2 or 3 dosages ( split
in 3 is better )

PROS:

S4 is 91% orally Bio-available and is not
methylated.
S4 is fast acting
S4 half life is of 4 hours
1mg of S4 is as anabolic as 1mg of test prop without the
androgenic sides
S4 does not aromatize
The average dosage is from 0.5mg to 1.5mg per kilogram of
bodyweight for up
to 6 or 8 weeks
PCT is not needed but recommended.

CONS:

S4 will cause blurred vision including yellow tint to color
occasionally and
also some will have a hard time adjusting vision in the dark.
S4 will not decrease total testosteroe in fact it will increase it
or
maintain it but it will decrease free testosterone levels because
it binds
to androgen receptors sometimes competing with free test. It is
recommended
to use either proviron or the herb nettle leaf extract ( 3,4
divanillytetrahydrofuran ) to free up test from receptors.

Other than that there are no other known negative side effects

Thanks for the info Admin.

I'm still happy to give it a try in low/moderate dose form during PCT. I dont think the free test thing is such an issue simply because whether the test gets bound by SHBG or is free, you still have to have a functioning endocrine system to produce either. In short if Test production is able to rebound while using S4 then it will very quickly become free on cessation of the S4 and hopefully by that stage the bulk of physical recovery is over. Perhaps I'll do fortnightly (blood) Test testing during the S4 protocol and see...

DesR wrote:

Thanks for the info Admin.

I'm still happy to give it a try in low/moderate dose form during PCT. I dont think the free test thing is such an issue simply because whether the test gets bound by SHBG or is free, you still have to have a functioning endocrine system to produce either. In short if Test production is able to rebound while using S4 then it will very quickly become free on cessation of the S4 and hopefully by that stage the bulk of physical recovery is over. Perhaps I'll do fortnightly (blood) Test testing during the S4 protocol and see...

Yes, that is what I was thinking as well.

Yeah guys, there is not a lot of information on the use of S-4 and HPTA suppression in humans (one guy from outlaw muscle aint gonna cut it). GTx reported no noticeable effect on LH levels following the phase II trial but we haven’t seen the data, there might be a slight amount of LH suppression that may they discarded as negligible, but which may prove very important for proper recovery during PCT. Certainly in rats there is direct suppression of LH and FSH in a dose responsive manner. Doses of 3mg/kg significantly reduced serum LH and marginally reduced FSH, which we know will impact on testosterone production (Dalton et al., 2005). At higher doses these hormones were completely suppressed (Dalton et al., 2003). Now I’m not saying that 3mg/kg in humans will have the same effect, it may be more is may be less depending on metabolism, but since there is known suppression surely we need more knowledge before using it willy nilly in PCT. This drug has already shown rapid differences in metabolism between different mammals, and may and may have varying profiles in different populations of humans as well (Dalton et al., 2006).

Now I’m not saying don’t use the product, I for one really hope it can be used in PCT or as a bridge, but I’m saying be cautious if you plan to use it in PCT, and preferably first test how doses effect you unsuppressed HPTA. But however you use it try to get blood work before and after, this will help us to evaluate the possible efficacy of this compound in a PCT regimen.

DesR: I included abbreviated references of the few studies that have been done on S-4 below just for you :laugh. Notice how they all come from the same lab, this further highlights how little knowledge we actually have on this compound.

Donghua Yin… James T. Dalton. Pharmacodynamics of SARMs (2003). The Journal of pharmacology and experimental therapeutics. P.1334.
Wenqing Gao… James T. Dalton. SARM treatment improves muscle strength and body compositions and prevents bone loss in orchidectomised rats (2005). Endocrinology. P.4887.
Wenqing Gao… James T. Dalton. Interspecies differences in pharmacokinetics and metabolism of s-3-(4-acetylamino-phenoxy)-2-hydroxy-2-methyl-n-(4-nitro-3-trifluoromethylphenyl)-propionamide: the role of n-acetyltransferase (2006). Drug metabolism and Disposition. P.254.

Hmmm... found this over on Steroid.com.

okay guys, got my blood work back and here's how it stands

BLOODWORK FROM OCTOBER 9, 2008
Pre-SARM

Total test level 5.49ng/mL
LH 2.77mIU/mL
Prolactin 11.40ng/mL


BLOODWORK FROM MONDAY, JUNE 1 2009
Intra-SARM

Total test level 282ng/dL (this would be 2.82ng/mL)
Free test 11.9pg/mL(the reference range is 9.3-26.5, i should be at the high end of this as it takes into account age groups from 0-60+)

AST 53(reference range 0-40)
ALT 103 (reference range 0-55)


This tells me a few things:

first, S4 is slightly suppressive of your natural testosterone production as mine has been cut in half over the last 4-5 weeks from use of it, so it might not be the best thing to run in PCT

second, even though it is not 17aa, it is affecting my liver from some angle as my liver enzymes are raised and i haven't had a drink of alcohol in a while

...but that wasnt the interesting part for me - this was

before S4

LH 2.77 mIU/mL
prolactin 11.4 ng/mL

while on S4

LH 4.1mIU/mL
prolactin 7.1ng/mL

DesR wrote:

...but that wasnt the interesting part for me - this was

before S4

LH 2.77 mIU/mL
prolactin 11.4 ng/mL

while on S4

LH 4.1mIU/mL
prolactin 7.1ng/mL

Please translate for the stupid people

I have done numerous blood tests and I have found that these are massively affected by how well you slept the night before (I'm sure many on here are aware of that already). Basically I have one blood panel where my test came in at a nice recovering value of 12~ish only to be replaced by an 8.7 two weeks later (after having a bad nights sleep).

Based on the panels though I am inclined to go quite low regarding the S4 dosage (probably half a tablet twice/three times a day for roughly a dose of 50-75mg) during PCT. Currently thinking I will start dosing 1 week before the AAS cycle ends and keep dosing for a further 5 weeks (so 6 weeks total). Blood tests to be done every 2 to 3 weeks after a really good sleep specifically monitoring LH/FSH/Test/free test and SHBG. Clearly they should be a disaster at the start due to the AAS so it will be interesting to see if there is a recovery.

One more thing... the panels attached above are from a pure S4 run not a PCT one.

More free Test after use I think. Not sure, can't speak scientific.

North_Boy1 wrote:

DesR wrote:

...but that wasnt the interesting part for me - this was

before S4

LH 2.77 mIU/mL
prolactin 11.4 ng/mL

while on S4

LH 4.1mIU/mL
prolactin 7.1ng/mL

Please translate for the stupid people

Specifically the LH (luteinizing hormone) was interesting as this appears to be elevated compared to the values pre cycle. LH is reponsible for the creation of test in the testes. Its interesting because the test values are lower but the LH values are raised. It's making me wonder why the test levels are down at all... perhaps a specific effect of S4. However, the fact that the LH is up may suggest that the brain is happily telling your balls to create test but something is stopping/slowing the process.

Yeah bro, for now use as low doses in PCT as you can until we have more blood work results and know for sure how suppressive S-4 is. I still think it would be better to further examine how it acts on guys with an unsuppressed HPTA. Even slight suppression could become major suppression in someone with an already inhibited HPTA starting PCT.

The raised LH and low test is weird, confirming the need for more bloodwork results from more people. Went over and checked out Phates log,pity he never posted post cycle blood work as well.

Inja wrote:

Yeah bro, for now use as low doses in PCT as you can until we have more blood work results and know for sure how suppressive S-4 is. I still think it would be better to further examine how it acts on guys with an unsuppressed HPTA. Even slight suppression could become major suppression in someone with an already inhibited HPTA starting PCT.

The raised LH and low test is weird, confirming the need for more bloodwork results from more people. Went over and checked out Phates log,pity he never posted post cycle blood work as well.

what about the vision sides can it be dangerous? when you say problems adjusting at night is it dangerous to drive and stuff??

Most guys seem to cope with the vision sides and it does seem to be dose specific based on feedback. It might be a danger to people that have to do alot of night work or night driving.

I always advocate caution in anything we do and SARMs are no exception. Let me start by saying that if you plan on using SARMs please be aware that there are no long term studies on these products. As with MT2 these products are still being clinically tested for flaws and even after they are eventually approved (or rejected) they might still show long term side effects. One that comes to mind is possible carcinogenic activity. The overall molecule itself is quite hydrophobic but has several reactive species chemically attached. Certainly the vision problems are worrying. It could be a temporary thing that results from simple interference of some or other mechanism or it could be something worse. Something more permanent with repeated use… Either way, we’ll probably only hear about several years down the line at best, so if you make the decision just remember that finding out about permanent damage may come to late.

P.S. I’m not completely anti-S-4. I know I may sound it but I just want to make sure everybody understands the possible risk associated with these new drugs before committing to their use. Indeed with the promising data coming in if I had the money I might try it myself.
Be safe bros.

Inja wrote:

The raised LH and low test is weird, confirming the need for more bloodwork results from more people. Went over and checked out Phates log,pity he never posted post cycle blood work as well.

Not being an endocrinologist I was very confused by the LH/Test imbalance. It does seem to show that S4 is meeting its goal of not providing negative feedback regarding LH. The other side of the test equation is the test produced by your adrenal glands. I wonder if S4 isnt having some impact causing a reduction here... just a thought.

DesR wrote:

jackrabbit1 wrote:

I'll be off in Dec so maybe i'l bridge with it come Jan.

Are you doing bloodwork?

Always do. Before, during and after.

So your keen to give them a run soon and follow up will bloods?

jackrabbit1 wrote:

DesR wrote:

jackrabbit1 wrote:

I'll be off in Dec so maybe i'l bridge with it come Jan.

Are you doing bloodwork?

Always do. Before, during and after.

Great - guess we just have to wait till admin lets us know the stock is available. Look forward to your results.

Any update on this?

Vengeance wrote:

Any update on this?

Yes, read here: www.anabolicsteroids.co.za/forum/6-stero...-genetic-enhancement

I'm using it as we speak.

admin am i gonna get a sample

djeasye wrote:

admin am i gonna get a sample

Will see what I can arrange for you.

Kudos to our South African labs for introducing SARMs into our country! Always on the front lines of the doping game... :laugh:

The studies I've read about SARMs show great promise. If you're looking for significant anabolism and very little side effects, this is the way to go.

This is a substance I'm definitely going to try.

The product is almost ready to be shipped and I'll post pics as soon as it lands.

How is it working for you admin?

any1 know how this cycle is going?