Looking to shed a small man

MPhilosopher wrote:
What is your caloric and macro split? How many grams of PRO, CHO, F?

Your plateau is a bit long, something else is going on.

Sorry missed the macro part,

According to Myfitnesspal
Protein is 211
Carb 283
Fibre 29
Sugars 36
Fat 65
Saturdated 25
Poly un 9
Mono Unsaturated 15
Cholesterol 1326
Sodium 2098mg


Like i said in my last post, i seem to be on the move again, will keep monitoring it

Obelix wrote:

MPhilosopher wrote:
What is your caloric and macro split? How many grams of PRO, CHO, F?

Your plateau is a bit long, something else is going on.

Sorry missed the macro part,

According to Myfitnesspal
Protein is 211
Carb 283
Fibre 29
Sugars 36
Fat 65
Saturdated 25
Poly un 9
Mono Unsaturated 15
Cholesterol 1326
Sodium 2098mg


Like i said in my last post, i seem to be on the move again, will keep monitoring it

You sure about that? I weigh less than half your weight and I eat more than that.

Keep in mind that creatine will add probably at least 3 to 4Kg water weight for someone your size. You could still be losing fat but the scale isn't moving...

Yeah i didnt read it correctly

Calories 2,990

Carbs 343g
Fat 74g
Protein 246g
Sodium 2371mg
Sugar 41

Mealplan
"Meal 1
3 full eggs
30g whey protein
60g cream of rice
3 sweetners

Meal 2
30g whey protein
100g oats
3 sweetners

Meal 3
130g cooked chicken
240g cooked white rice
Half a cup cooked mixed veggies
30mls tomato sauce

Meal 4
30g whey protein
100g oats
3 sweetness
90g banana

Meal 5
150g cooked chicken
30g nola low fat salad cream
15ml nandos peri peri sauce
4 slices of sasko more slices brown bread

Meal 6
3 full eggs
3️0g cheddar cheese."

My home scale does the "body fat" thingy, its down to 43% now, was 45 last week..... I think im just expecting too much too quick

Obelix wrote: Yeah i didnt read it correctly

Calories 2,990

Carbs 343g
Fat 74g
Protein 246g
Sodium 2371mg
Sugar 41

Ok well you seem to be carrying on.

As far as I see it, you are consuming approximately 343g of unnecessary carbs.
Now I don't think the number has to approach 0 everyday, but as I suggested before, a weekly tally is not a bad idea.

If you can introduce 3 days of say 50-100g of carbs, you will have some net benefit.

Your fat is about right I would say, you can temporarily move down to 60g to see how you feel, but I would not do that long term.

You're eating too many carbs. High chance you're VERY insulin resistant. That's why you're not losing weight.

You need a low-carb diet to get your insulin tolerance back up to normal.

Best is Keto or Banting.

Low fat anything is just loaded with carbs, so too the peri peri sauce.

You're obviously eating less than what you used to and I suspect your metabolism has crashed. Good chance you're catabolic as well. Your body is burning muscle for fuel and storing extra fat because it thinks there's a famine.

You should actually be having the "problem" of trying to manage too rapid weight loss. Another indicator things aren't right in that you're not losing weight.

Ok So this morning 186.5 ,
its starting up again


I honestly am not sure what everything in the diet is for , but together they seem to work.
The carbs being consumed are in the oats, brown bread and rice. Those are good carbs from what I understand.

I dont know enough to argue the carbs vs no carbs fight. Like i said earlier I will keep on this diet till the end of Jan and decide from there. The wheels are turning on the ol locomotive have started up again.

Im going to put the extended plateau down to December cheats, and then the lack of water in my diet. Like i said, there was quite a bit of bloating.



as for strength, I am still able to dumbbell press 50's, Maxing out the plates on the shoulder press, can still squat more than my body weight. So strength is there. It took a dip last year, but came back

Thanks for the advice guys. I really do appreciate it.

MPhilosopher wrote:

Obelix wrote: Yeah i didnt read it correctly

Calories 2,990

Carbs 343g
Fat 74g
Protein 246g
Sodium 2371mg
Sugar 41

Ok well you seem to be carrying on.

As far as I see it, you are consuming approximately 343g of unnecessary carbs.
Now I don't think the number has to approach 0 everyday, but as I suggested before, a weekly tally is not a bad idea.

If you can introduce 3 days of say 50-100g of carbs, you will have some net benefit.

Your fat is about right I would say, you can temporarily move down to 60g to see how you feel, but I would not do that long term.

343g of unnessary carbs you say? But yet in 11 weeks he is down 19kgs. You forget that this is a guy who has issue with eating sugar and garage store sausage rolls, do you think going straight to a low carb diet is going to be long term sustainable? When switching to a 3000kcal diet with 343g of means there is food volume, as well as sustained blood sugar which means there is no starvation. If he was to go down to 100g of carbs he would have bailed on the diet after a week.

Keto and banting has its place, but why try and fix what isn't broken, after 12 weeks he probably needs a diet break by upping calories to 3800 from carbs and fats for 2 weeks, and then back to diet so they he can up regulate hormones.

Remember insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body, so why not eat carbs to keep you anabolic for along as possible. You probably find his muscle mass has gone up with fat loss with keeping carbs this high.

End of the day all that matters is he is in a caloric deficit at 3000 kcal of which 340g is carbs. How many of you would love to loose weight with carbs that high??? Don't fix what isn't broken.

Weight loss is occurring, whilst not being 100% strict and dilligent, Christmas, new years, falling off the wagon with Christmas parties, how ever he is still down from 205.5kgs to 186.5 on over 350g of carbs. Sorry to tell you guys, that is proof that the diet is working even when he hasn't been 100% consistent. First thing I would do is move steps up to 12000 per day to restart fatloss after doing a 2 week diet break to allow for thyroid hormones to balance out.

Eating no carbs and all fat, yes would be easy to stick to for certain people(personally it's a breeze for me.) But the food volume of fat vs carbs for a guy who has gotten over 200kgs from eating crap food would be impossible to stick to. So sorry to tell you guys, although on paper it would be great practically it would fail hard.

Obelix wrote: I dont want to do the Keto route, Its too tricky to maintain, Currently two different diets in the house is causing enough issues....


Changes since mid december,
Changed protein shakes, I am back on the clicks brand now. Been on it for a week and a bit
Started creatine last week,
Started preworkout last week
Been blending my oats into a protein smoothie, this i think might be a problem, Im alot more gassy


other than that, i have focused alot more on the walking side and have started up the weights again. I will give it another week, My body is still screwed, Theres alot of fat to go

Rather use a good quality whey protein like doorman nutrition, look online. They are the cheapest and don't have fillers. The minute you see milk powders or maltodextrin in your list of ingredients the stuff Is junk and used to bulk up your weight Protein. If you look at the nutritional information and per 100g there is less than 74g of protein per 100g and more than 12g of carbs per 100g it's full of crap.

A 30g scoop of whey should be 22-23g protein, 3g carbs and 2g of fat.

Empire wrote: 343g of unnessary carbs you say? But yet in 11 weeks he is down 19kgs.

.....

End of the day all that matters is he is in a caloric deficit at 3000 kcal of which 340g is carbs. How many of you would love to loose weight with carbs that high??? Don't fix what isn't broken.

Unnecessary biologically, yes.
I didn't suggest "keto" or any CHO->0g diet.

I would not imagine a high carb diet promotes health or body composition or various advantages starving the body of glucose would.

BUT, I agree with you, he won't stick to 30g carb days.
But 100-150g of carbs? That is plenty and OP needs to change his relationship with food.

My main worry with OP is his outlook on chasing numbers - not bashing - I genuinely believe it could become a problem down the line; physiologically (body composition) as well as mentally.

I am always pro muscle conservation. Nothing quite does it in a caloric deficit like reducing carbs.


EDIT: Insulin does not discriminate. It is the most anabolic for muscle and fat. Not to mention OP is obviously heavily insulin resistant - I disagree with that argument of constantly including carbs.

You can disagree with the constantly including carbs but the facts don't care about opinions, and the facts are 19kgs down with carbs still in there.

Here is the part you are missing, long term sustainability due to high food volume is a big thing. You can't take a guy who is going tk be coming from eating 2 sausage rolls and as a meal which is a large volume of food and say, have half a cup of rice and 2 table spoons of olive oil to keep full. He won't stick to it. You can say to him have 3 cups of vegetables with that and it will be filling but it's not going to be enjoyable. I've learnt over the last 15 years of dealing with people, psychological compliance is the biggest battle.

Let's see what happens when he gets his bloods done to see where his blood work is. He is still taking glucphoohage and minimal simple carbohydrates, so those numbers should be good. And if you look at it this way, to get to 200kgs the amount of carbs and fats he would have been eating would have been well, alot. Now coming to 343g of carbs puts him in state of low carb in comparison to what he was doing. I've had multiple clients in the high 150kgs ( cos the scales can't register more) eating over 1500g of carbs a day from coke, and other things. I have got them on to diets of 500g to start from even shit sources and it's still low carb in comparison to what they where doing. And after a year they are 35kgs down. Low carb should be a comparison to previous eating habits when you are at level of morbidly obese.

150g of carbs, I can tell you once again, psychologically, the OP wouldn't stick to that for 2 weeks let alone 2 months. So right now guys, carbs or not the facts are even at 343g of unnecessary carbs he has complied with the diet and lost 19kgs so that means the diet is working. Going to extreme to start, not going to work especially when his family are still eating meals In his house that would make binging easy when only eating 150g of carbs.

Compliance over long term beats any study or numbers in the magical nutrition books. If you can't get someone to comply long term the diet has failed. And obelix, would you have stuck it out this long with less food? Cos that will be the big answer.

And I completely agree with the OP needs to change his relationship with food, but after probably 15 years of bad habits they are not going to change over night. Especially if he is hungry and his wife and kids are going to be having Malva pudding and custard and he has 150g of carbs for the day and he is starving, that is asking for binging behavior.

And I'm the first one to experience that post show. With iron will power for 26 weeks, with no goal, trust me, binging is a thing even when I went up to 400g of carbs a day, I could easily eat a box of oreos, a liter of super m and a chocolate cake in a sitting.

Empire wrote: You can disagree with the constantly including carbs but the facts don't care about opinions, and the facts are 19kgs down with carbs still in there.

Here is the part you are missing, long term sustainability due to high food volume is a big thing. You can't take a guy who is going tk be coming from eating 2 sausage rolls and as a meal which is a large volume of food and say, have half a cup of rice and 2 table spoons of olive oil to keep full. He won't stick to it. You can say to him have 3 cups of vegetables with that and it will be filling but it's not going to be enjoyable. I've learnt over the last 15 years of dealing with people, psychological compliance is the biggest battle.

Let's see what happens when he gets his bloods done to see where his blood work is. He is still taking glucphoohage and minimal simple carbohydrates, so those numbers should be good. And if you look at it this way, to get to 200kgs the amount of carbs and fats he would have been eating would have been well, alot. Now coming to 343g of carbs puts him in state of low carb in comparison to what he was doing. I've had multiple clients in the high 150kgs ( cos the scales can't register more) eating over 1500g of carbs a day from coke, and other things. I have got them on to diets of 500g to start from even shit sources and it's still low carb in comparison to what they where doing. And after a year they are 35kgs down. Low carb should be a comparison to previous eating habits when you are at level of morbidly obese.

150g of carbs, I can tell you once again, psychologically, the OP wouldn't stick to that for 2 weeks let alone 2 months. So right now guys, carbs or not the facts are even at 343g of unnecessary carbs he has complied with the diet and lost 19kgs so that means the diet is working. Going to extreme to start, not going to work especially when his family are still eating meals In his house that would make binging easy when only eating 150g of carbs.

Compliance over long term beats any study or numbers in the magical nutrition books. If you can't get someone to comply long term the diet has failed. And obelix, would you have stuck it out this long with less food? Cos that will be the big answer.

I would have crashed after the 1st week. Hell that first weekend I already grabbed a bag of jelly beans because of habits, never mind cravings. I used to say, im an adult i can have something if i want..... Look where that got me. I dont have a strong willpower. The toughest thing I have ever done was give up smoking and chocolates. This diet was still a close 2nd, especially with the rest of the house continuing as normal. I cant expect them to change to what Im eating, But they have adapted and junk food is alot less in the household.

Empire wrote: Rather use a good quality whey protein like doorman nutrition, look online. They are the cheapest and don't have fillers. The minute you see milk powders or maltodextrin in your list of ingredients the stuff Is junk and used to bulk up your weight Protein. If you look at the nutritional information and per 100g there is less than 74g of protein per 100g and more than 12g of carbs per 100g it's full of crap.
A 30g scoop of whey should be 22-23g protein, 3g carbs and 2g of fat.

Having a look at their stuff shortly. Never heard of them before, I use clicks purely because of finances. They have deals every now and then and it was a good way to suppliment protein. Its not my only source, but 1g protein per lb of bodyweight is something I cant achieve at my current weight and financial situation.

Empire wrote: Weight loss is occurring, whilst not being 100% strict and dilligent, Christmas, new years, falling off the wagon with Christmas parties, how ever he is still down from 205.5kgs to 186.5 on over 350g of carbs. Sorry to tell you guys, that is proof that the diet is working even when he hasn't been 100% consistent. First thing I would do is move steps up to 12000 per day to restart fatloss after doing a 2 week diet break to allow for thyroid hormones to balance out.

Eating no carbs and all fat, yes would be easy to stick to for certain people(personally it's a breeze for me.) But the food volume of fat vs carbs for a guy who has gotten over 200kgs from eating crap food would be impossible to stick to. So sorry to tell you guys, although on paper it would be great practically it would fail hard.

Thats why I havent changed the diet, Its working. I have a hit a patch where its slowed down, today im still 186.5, BUT I am not 205.5 anymore.
Steps will be moving up to 12000, its difficult on tuesdays and fridays as im in the office. I cant spend all day walking up and down, plus gym time is shorter because I have to leave by 6:15, But that means I will just have to go for an afternoon stroll with the missus then. I can adapt my life a bit more.

Empire wrote: And I completely agree with the OP needs to change his relationship with food, but after probably 15 years of bad habits they are not going to change over night. Especially if he is hungry and his wife and kids are going to be having Malva pudding and custard and he has 150g of carbs for the day and he is starving, that is asking for binging behavior.

I am changing my outlook on the whole picture, not just the eating portion. Health consists of alot and I need to focus on it all. But yeah it doesnt happen overnight

MPhilosopher wrote: Unnecessary biologically, yes.
I didn't suggest "keto" or any CHO->0g diet.
I would not imagine a high carb diet promotes health or body composition or various advantages starving the body of glucose would.
BUT, I agree with you, he won't stick to 30g carb days.
But 100-150g of carbs? That is plenty and OP needs to change his relationship with food.
My main worry with OP is his outlook on chasing numbers - not bashing - I genuinely believe it could become a problem down the line; physiologically (body composition) as well as mentally.
I am always pro muscle conservation. Nothing quite does it in a caloric deficit like reducing carbs.
EDIT: Insulin does not discriminate. It is the most anabolic for muscle and fat. Not to mention OP is obviously heavily insulin resistant - I disagree with that argument of constantly including carbs.

Keto is thrown around alot, Carbs being evil too. Honestly at this point there is so much fat in my body that I think anything healthy is a step forwards. My goal is consistancy , sticking to the plan and seeing results. My motivation is the weight loss, but as i mentioned before second goal is strenght. Strength is coming back. This morning was a quick chest session where 50kg flat dumbbell press, 45 incline, 20kg flies, I think thats not too bad. Yeah its probably off your numbers or others on the forum, but to me its still damn strong and getting higher up.

With regards to the Bloodwork and so forth, That is on the back burner for a few months as I need to save up for it. I have no idea where to get it done, I just know its a few k and I dont have that right now. We just had Xmas, wifes bday is coming up and new school clothes all round. Family comes first then the fine tuning based on blood etc. Its probably not the right way to look at it, But Its what i feel is right, the family as a whole comes first

Thanks again to everyone for the input. I really do appreciate that you take time out of your day to assist with this, Right now Empire is still a major hero in my household he has got me to drop 10% of my bodyweight with a quick diet, Now to go forward


@empire, If you dont mind, Do you have a recommendation for the diet break you menitioned? How will i go up the extra 800calories and not screw everything up?

Empire wrote: Rather use a good quality whey protein like doorman nutrition, look online. They are the cheapest and don't have fillers. The minute you see milk powders or maltodextrin in your list of ingredients the stuff Is junk and used to bulk up your weight Protein. If you look at the nutritional information and per 100g there is less than 74g of protein per 100g and more than 12g of carbs per 100g it's full of crap.

A 30g scoop of whey should be 22-23g protein, 3g carbs and 2g of fat.

Which would be better?
DNC Whey or the Extreme whey

EDIT- I just got 2 DNC's

Empire wrote: And I completely agree with the OP needs to change his relationship with food, but after probably 15 years of bad habits they are not going to change over night. Especially if he is hungry and his wife and kids are going to be having Malva pudding and custard and he has 150g of carbs for the day and he is starving, that is asking for binging behavior.

And I'm the first one to experience that post show. With iron will power for 26 weeks, with no goal, trust me, binging is a thing even when I went up to 400g of carbs a day, I could easily eat a box of oreos, a liter of super m and a chocolate cake in a sitting.

Fair play. I see we've been too hard.

Obelix, you've done very well so far. We forget we don't take a few weeks to get out of shape, so expecting a few months to get back isn't realistic. You've done incredibly well given family challenges.

Lucky Empire is there to put us all back to reality and his journey is the perfect example.