When is it time for TRT? MY SCENARIO

Oh ok i see what u mean!

Lekker

Thanks dj. Appreciate it man

Switch, you should post your latest test results before I can advise you on what more I think you should do now. Your previous test results improved a lot over the first results and there is a good chance that it is much better now. I firmly believe that you should not be on the same HCG treatment now, based on what I have learned from what fertility experts Dr. Crisler, Dr. Shippen and Dr. Scalley have had to say about their treatments for hypogonadism. These guys specialise in reversing hypogonadism after steroid use and would NOT prescibe HCG in the way your doc has at that dose for so long.

Androgel like creams should only be used to treat primary type hypogonadism, not secondary as it can make things worse, and your doctor can not diagnose primary without sending you to a specialist first. That is not on.

KTM, ouch you've had some bad luck. Did you have any other blood tests done besides those that you posted. Please post all the info you have here or at the very least your LH levels. One first needs to establish whether your hypogonadism is due to a problem with your pituitary or your testes or both and

How long after your last HCG injection was the 2nd blood test done? This is very important.

At what age did you start using steroids and how long did you use for before you stopped?

Guys, HCG therapy has come a long way in the last decade. Below is what Dr. Crisler says about HCG therapy and every cutting edge fertility expert these days seems to agree, do a youtube search for crisler and watch some of his stuff:

"It is important that no more than 500IU of HCG be administered on any given day. There is only just so much stimulation possible, and exceeding that not only is wasteful, doing so has important negative consequences. Higher doses overly stimulate testicular aromatase, which inappropriately raises estrogen levels, and brings on the detrimental effects of same. It also causes Leydig cell desentization to LH, and we are therefore inducing primary hypogonadism while perhaps treating secondary hypogonadism"

Well i am scheduled to do bloods again on the 20th june.

But i dont wanna be on all of this stuff for any longer if its messing me up!

F**k. What do i do now??

I can do bloods now but i mean i am still on cream, dhea, hcg, etc so they will be inacurate. Starting to think this doctor is doing more bad then good.

Switch wrote: Well i am scheduled to do bloods again on the 20th june.

But i dont wanna be on all of this stuff for any longer if its messing me up!

F**k. What do i do now??

I can do bloods now but i mean i am still on cream, dhea, hcg, etc so they will be inacurate. Starting to think this doctor is doing more bad then good.

I've been trying to think of the best way to advise you without dissing your doc because he's trying to help you and is probably a great GP. But this is not something most GP's know enough about and it's something you need to do right from the start which is why you should see an endo or urologist who deals with these issues for a living.

Your doctor is treating symptoms of low testosterone but not curing it. You are effectively already on TRT with the cream which is bullshit. I'm not qualified to give medical advice so I will only advise based on what fertility docs do when guys want to restart their HPTA so that they won't have to go on TRT for the rest of their lives.

You should be on clomid and only on (LOW DOSE) HCG long enough to upregulate your leydig cells to full ripeness. The HCG dose you are on will desensitive your testes making them less able to respond to your natural LH.

Dr's. Shippen, Crisler and Scally's s HPTA restart protocol uses clomid firstly and sometimes tamoxifen. HCG is only prescribed initially to kickstart the testes where necessary. If fertility treatment is the primary goal then HMG is added.

Thanks alot muscle, i know u trying to be nice dude but it is what it is!!

He is a good gp but then if something is out of his scope he should be honest and direct me to someone else!!

Im a bit irritated hey.

Thanks alot for helping muscleaddict!! Big respect to u man.

Called an endo.earlier, supposedly one of the best in jhb. He doesnt take on any new clients but i told them the situation and they said they will talk to the doc and let me know if he can make a plan to see me.

Will keep u updated on how it goes.

Still feel confused now with what i should do with the cream and hcg? Just stop, or carrry on? Haahaa. Dam this gp has dropped me in the shit. Lol:cheer:

NO cream, use hcg but small doses split up at 250iu 2x a day eod, try that.

Ok, thanks alot dj!!

Where is the best place to get tests done for testosterone levels? and the approximate cost?

Lancet Laboratories. you pay for each individual bit of blood work. enquire online at www.lancet.co.za/

Hey guys!

Just an update, off to see an endo tomorrow morning...

Will let u no what he says!

Good Luck mate

Good luck, is this all covered by your medical aid ?

Switch wrote: Hey guys!

Just an update, off to see an endo tomorrow morning...

Will let u no what he says!

It's very important that you are honest about your steroid use so that they can treat you properly.

Im pretty sure its all covered by medical aid!

And i will be honest with him, wanna get this sorted once and for all!

Switch wrote: Im pretty sure its all covered by medical aid!

If they paid for the previous treatments, then ok.......

Just make sure you don't get caught pants down with a R 50 000 + account. Medical aids have issues covering drug abuse after effect sides....

One more thing to think about. This is what Dr Scally who specialises in HPTA restoration (Harvard and MIT graduate) says about HCG monotherapy:

"It is hard, impossible, to believe anyone would be on hCG monotherapy except for fertility.

hCG will also cause HPTA suppression. If used long-term, Welcome to AIH (Androgen Induced Hypogonadism).

Thanks muscle addict!

You said you have a big pdf document about steroids and hypogonadism. Is there anyway i can get my hands on that?? Would like to read it before i go to the endo tomorrow.

That is really just one long study. THIS is a better read.

awsome!

Thanks alot MA

Hey Guys!

SO

Went to see the endo today. He is a really awsome doctor and is very understanding ( Should have gone to him ages ago)

The main thing we spoke about is that I am in this for life. He said he can see that I want to be a bodybuilder and I want to grow, etc.

He said that there if i want to continue taking gear, thats fine, but there is a way to do it and a way not to do it. He will help me with that ONCE WE GET MY LEVELS RIGHT.

So the game plan for now is that I have to come off EVERYTHING (DHEA, dixirit, hcg, cream) for 6 weeks so he can get my true base levels, then i gotta do bloods again and go back to him!

He will then fix what I have broken and only then start discussing future AAS use.

So I will keep you all updated with how I progress!

That's awesome news bro..all the best so he reckons that you can fix the problem? Pretty positive that you can get your normal levels back?

Yes he did sound very positive about that Snitch

So im just hoping things go my way!!

I hope so 2 bro..as I am in the same boat as you man

I don't suppose you can post his contact details up here? or is there any way I can contact you?

I would like to set up an appointment with him as well the doc im with now is a Gp but knows his juice..but I rate its better to do it through an endo doc

I am not so sure about posting his details up here... Dont think i can do that.

Speak to Admin about contacting me.

It might be hard to get an appointment. I was very lucky to get one. He doesnt actually take on any new patients! He only works with his exsisting patients!

Ok bud..will speak to Admin..

Yea I understand..its worth a try though..wana get this prob sorted